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  1. #41
    Fire Chaplain IACOJRev's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FireSarge
    Islam is a religion taht is so tied into Christianity and Judism its a suprise they dont realise they are the same religion
    HUH?
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ


  2. #42
    Forum Member Firegod343's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rescue101
    I have a solution to some of our issues.Bring ALL of our troops home.Bring EVERY SINGLE FOREIGN AID PENNY home and keep it here.LOCK the borders and put AMERICANS back to work.This would eliminate the deficit,lower our taxes,and let the scwabblers sort it out on their own.
    R101 - While I know where you're coming from, being an Isolationist Nation has many drawbacks. First, if there is a war, it's on your doorstep, not the otherside of the planet. Second, "locking the borders" sounds good, until you realize exactly what that means. Forget the hundreds of miles not watched on the Canada/Mexico land borders. How many illegal non-terrorists make it into this country EVERY DAY by Pacific and Atlantic ports and waterways.

    True, the foreign aid the U.S. continues to throw down that bottomless pit seems frightening, but keep this in mind. Countries like Russia need captial to survive. If we don't help them out, they will have to come up with unique alternatives, like "Honest Ivan's 1/2 off Nukes".

    As for religion, the great thing is that everyone can believe what they want. The funny thing is when people argue too strongly, pro or con, they sound like idiots and lose a lot of credibility.

    And finally.....driving is a privilege. You don't want to remove your vail....take the bus.

    FG
    Last edited by Firegod343; 03-07-2003 at 05:29 PM.
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  3. #43
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Wow...

    Originally posted by johnusn978a


    Oh..I must of missed that part of my oath that said I
    would support and defend the dictatorship of the United
    States...

    I do remember something along the lines of...
    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will
    fight to the death your right to say it."

    Personally? I think the Federal Gov't is completely out of control and is abusing the Constitution massively. I believe that Washington is controlling ENTIRELLY way too much of my day to day life, and want them out. Makes this country beautiful. A- I can say that, and not be arrested, executed or persecuted for feeling that way. And B- I can change it.

    Not everybody who talks ill of the Gov't and the country don't want to be here. I want my Gov't to be run the way it was set up. Not the shadow of it that is in power now, and has been for the past 15-20 years.

    Doc
    DC2, ex-FDNY (E74)
    Hey Doc, I dont want to get into it with you or anyone else.
    But, you missed a line in my quote....Love it or leave it.
    I would tell anyone- you dont like it here, get the F out!
    Including anyone who demands to wear a costume for a
    drivers license picture or wants the test written in their
    home language.

    I am proud to be an American and that did not fade a year
    after 9/11. Hell, I was proud BRFORE 9/11. I registered
    for selective service BEFORE I was 18? (long, long time
    ago) Why? Because it was not only the law but my proud duty.

    Call the US Government a "dictatorship" is a little far. You
    got the freedom to say that, but brother FREEDOM ISNT FREE.
    Thousands of people died so you could type that.

    Hey, I might like tactical tupperware and be from California.
    Yeah, I am not perfect, and got a big mouth in here. But I
    Love America pre-9/11 and after and thats good enough!!

    Peace!

  4. #44
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Hehe FG,I was being a bit sarcastic.However I ask you to consider this,If we did bring ALL our troops home they could probably easily secure the borders.Should stir up a bit of debate,Eh?T.C.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Wow...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU


    Hey Doc, I dont want to get into it with you or anyone else.
    But, you missed a line in my quote....Love it or leave it.
    I would tell anyone- you dont like it here, get the F out!

    I am proud to be an American and that did not fade a year
    after 9/11

    Call the US Government a "dictatorship" is a little far. You
    got the freedom to say that, but brother FREEDOM ISNT FREE.
    Thousands of people died so you could type that.
    People disagree. Fact of life. Is what she did extreme? Yes. Do I agree with it? Personally no. I think they bent the rules too much for her. But you know what? It was there CHOICE to do it. Just like I don't get mad at a 60year old lefty cashing a check from the Yankees for 12million a year if the owner CHOOSES to pay him that. The immagrants who come here and demand crap, I have a problem with. But if an immagrant ASKS for something and gets it, don't direct your anger at THEM. The government CHOOSE to give it to them. Direct your anger where it belongs. Not to the person who asks, but to the person who gives. Good example, a parent who gets mad at a spoiled child. Who spoiled the child in the first place?

    As for this..."Call the US Government a "dictatorship" is a little far. You
    got the freedom to say that, but brother FREEDOM ISNT FREE.
    Thousands of people died so you could type that"

    More and more of your individual freedoms are being taken away from you. It isn't as far off as you think it is. And as much as my Brothers in New York, and my brother serviceman died for freedom, they did NOT die so that we would all follow the leader. They did NOT die so that people who be persecuted, hated or displaced because they didn't agree with the "party line". If they died for that, there would be very little Irish, German and Italians in the United States today. Because they would have all been driven from places that they settled in with the "You don't like the US, get out attitude/you aren't like us, get out attitude"

    I do not post what I post to make anyone "mad" or upset. I try and look at everything objectivelly and fairly. Look beyond the lines, and accept that maybe you are not 100% right, just like I accept that I am not 100%. Be fair, and most of all, don't do what our ancestors did with the Irish or the German immagrant. Don't judge the group by the individual. That is freedom, and thats what people died for. Maybe you can learn as much from them, as they can from you.

    Doc
    DC2, ex-FDNY (E74)

  6. #46
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    I just wonder when in most Universities and Media outlets being an American became something to feel guilty about. I have a hard time believing freedom of speech and religion, the right to own a firearm and go hunting or defend yourself, a right to work hard and succeed, or the right to be free is something I should be ashamed about. And unlike those elitists, I actually wore the uniform of an American serviceman and spent time in the gulf during the war. So just maybe, I may actually have more of a right to comment on the flaws of America, unlike those who have sat back and just enjoyed the free ride.
    Does America have it's flaws, of course it does, but does that mean we have to throw in the towel and give up being who we are, hell no. I know to, much to the dismay of some of those elitists, I'm proud to be an American. If that makes those pathetic little countries of France and Germany not like me, so be it. I hope you are proud to support terrorism.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  7. #47
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    I think what this guy meant about the "In God We Trust" thing was yeah we have religous freedom but this country was founded on Christian principals and if you dont like it oh well get out...not that everyone should become a Christian. Thats just how I interpreted it and I think thats how he meant it.
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  8. #48
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    islam is the religion muslims follow

    and ishmael was the ancestor of Muhammad
    and the brother of Issac son of Abraham


    Issac is the father of Judism oor the Jewish religion

    Isgnael is father of Islam and Mulsim religion

    Christianity is the one God in a trinity the son the father adn the spirit


    all three are tied together with blood or with the fact that Christ was here for the jewish salvation and was persicuted for it then was resurrected

    all 3 religions are the same or closely related

  9. #49
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by firefightermatt
    I think what this guy meant about the "In God We Trust" thing was yeah we have religous freedom but this country was founded on Christian principals and if you dont like it oh well get out...not that everyone should become a Christian. Thats just how I interpreted it and I think thats how he meant it.

    So let me get this right, If I do not like something about our country then I should get the **** out right. So the next time that you disagree with a law or tax, or anything, then you should get the **** out. Your intolerance amazes me.

    The intolerance of religion amazes me, and I do not believe that was what our country was founded on. The men that founded this country may all have been church going men, but they thought out side their box, and created a country where their religion was not the law. But rather a place where they could all have there own separate religions and beliefs.

    It pains me to see people place there religion at such an elevated level that they believe so strong that if you are not with us then you must get out of the country.

    So if you are against handguns you must get out.

    I have had at least 1 family member or more in every war since the civil war of this country. I have given 12 years already and I have many more to give to make sure that this country is a land where people can have thoughts and beliefs that are not always the same, and not have to worry about being persecuted for them.

  10. #50
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    I am now done posting to this thread. It serves no purpose except to cause division among us and hard feelings. Does it matter? Of course. DO I want to debate religion? NO. You won't change anyones minds. Should that woman have her face covered in her DL picture? Hell no.

    I am outta here to go discuss something that matters.........leather vs. Tupperware!

    Peace out!!
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  11. #51
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    I am now done posting to this thread. It serves no purpose except to cause division among us and hard feelings. Does it matter? Of course. DO I want to debate religion? NO. You won't change anyones minds.
    Actually, the single-mindedness and exlcusionary beliefs of most religions is what causes division, not only here but in all aspects of life. The "we're right, the only ones that are right, and the rest of you are hell-bound" attitude of many people is an example of intolerance that is accepted on a daily basis, simply because they see themselves and their beliefs as the "majority"...never mind the many factions among those religions that cause equal division and disruption among their own particular religion. If you don't think that this applies to the fire service in any way, you are wrong. People like Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, and others suffer discrimination within fire service, as well as other workplaces, on a daily basis, simply because they are "different". This treatment is no less important to us than discrimination because of race, sexual orientation, ethnic background, physical disablities or conditions are to other people. Sure, there are racists out there who hate people of different colors/nationalities...there are "homophobes" who hate gays and lesbians...and there are those who constantly abuse or ridicule people who are mentally challenged. And the fire service today contains ample numbers of any and all of these ignorant people. It's about time that the mainstream Christians in America realize that this country is OF the people, FOR the people, and BY the people....ALL of the PEOPLE. We don't call ourselves "brothers" and "sisters" for nothing.

  12. #52
    Forum Member fflynn17's Avatar
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    I agree with 1835Wayne:
    It serves no purpose except to cause division among us and hard feelings. Does it matter? Of course. DO I want to debate religion? NO. You won't change anyones minds. Should that woman have her face covered in her DL picture? Hell no.
    ThNozzleman: The most important part of a MEANINGFUL debate is knowing when your opponent is not listening, he/she just is giving the same "reasons", or is stooping to name calling. This is the time when a good debator stops. While I share many of your views, this is a firefighting board, not a religion board.

    So, anyone for a good debate about smooth bore vs fog nozzle???
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

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  13. #53
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Steamer
    Considering the direction this one is going is it really worth remembering?

    Did the sailors on the Mayflower drink alcohol while on watch, or did they shut off their pagers?
    ROTFLMAO...
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  14. #54
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    While I share many of your views, this is a firefighting board, not a religion board.
    I agree with what you said; however, intolerance of all types is a problem in the fire service, as well as any other workplace, and it should be discussed in a civil manner, openly.

    You won't change anyones minds.
    I disagree; if we get just a few people to reconsider their positions and look more favorably upon someone who is different than they are, or treat someone with kindness and respect instead of indifference, then it's well worth discussing, and often. Martin Luthor King Jr. did not help his fellow African-Americans by keeping his mouth shut and ignoring the problem.
    Last edited by ThNozzleman; 03-10-2003 at 12:11 PM.

  15. #55
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    Default What's the title of this forum?

    Oh yeah, Firefighters Forum.....General FIREFIGHTING DISCUSSIONS!!!

  16. #56
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, Firefighters Forum.....General FIREFIGHTING DISCUSSIONS!!!
    Well, in my opinion, "general firefighting" encompasses every aspect of the fire service and firehouse life, as is reflected by the diversity of the thousands of posts here. Accordingly, I think this should include intolerance, as it can affect day-to-day relations in the fire station; as well as hiring practices. I think there is more than enough room on these forums to tackle tough, sensitive issues such as racism and intolerance, considering the space used for such discussions as "what kind of boots do you wear" that are posted over and over. Locking down threads and posting frownie faces will not solve the problem. Rational and reasonable discussion is the best way to bring understanding of an issue to the fore-front and resolve it.
    Last edited by ThNozzleman; 03-10-2003 at 01:38 PM.

  17. #57
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    It is about time someone spoke up. I am sick and tired of listening to people who were born in America gripe about all of the stuff from the pledge and other things. I am glad that the web administrators allowed this post because I think this has been needed for a long time.

  18. #58
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tshayes
    It is about time someone spoke up. I am sick and tired of listening to people who were born in America gripe about all of the stuff from the pledge and other things. I am glad that the web administrators allowed this post because I think this has been needed for a long time.
    I'm also glad that the webteam had allowed this to remain open, because I'm tired of listening to people being intolerant and telling others they should get the F out if they don't like it. Because the US that I defend by being part of her military, is a tolerant one. It is a US that allows people to have diffrent views and all live withing her boarders with out the fear of reprisale or discrimination. The US I would be more then happy to give my life up for is a US that understands the needs of having opposing views, and realizes that change can only take place when people are willing to be the minority and fight for change.

  19. #59
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    I am proud to say that next christmas I am going to enlist in the air force. I am training and running to get ready. I think that unless someone is going to do somthing about a problem then they need to pipe down. LONG LIVE THE USA.

  20. #60
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Airborne
    Because the US that I defend by being part of her military, is a tolerant one.
    So, does that mean that the U.S' military is not reflective of the "tolerant" U.S.?

    Stay Safe

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