1. #1
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    Default Safe-Sensible-Debateable Subjects!

    As a Johnnie Firefighter........many-many-moons ago, the very first lesson taught me in the Firehouse was this: The specific subjects of Mothers-Religion-Politics are NOT discussed in the Firehouse! Why? Simply because no-one ends up right, and no-one ends up wrong...the only thing that happens is a friendship ends up (period).

    While I have been emotionally guilty of engaging in some of the aforementioned......it would do me, and all of us well to remember this!
    "All gave some......Some gave all!"
    Lest we forget.........9/11/01
    "Former Senior Member"
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    Good point, RdRunner. After all, this place is supposed to be about the fire service!
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Dead on RdRunnr. All it does is **** people off.
    Steve Gallagher
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    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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    GOOD IDEA!!!!
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

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    Well I'm not sure about anyone else, but for me I love a good debate, and I never have ill feelings during or at the end. I guess that comes from be on the debate club in HighSchool. I find that a person can learn alot about said subject when debating it as long as they are open minded, and people don't reduce them selves to name calling and crap like that.

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    Default I request an amendment!

    RdRunnr:
    My hat is off to you. I will agree right here and now not to discuss Mothers and Religion. However, I would like to amend the Politics to exclude "fire service politics". I think that it is necessary to sort out, discuss and debate policies that are set by political motives and can be costly to the fire service.
    I learned along time ago that "politics" is in every part of our lives. At home, at work, at school; it doesn't matter. Politics is learned at a very early age the first time a child plays Mom against Dad.
    So, try as I might, I can't stay silent on Politics. It is a big part of my life.
    Oh and you need to get to a meeting. We miss you over there.
    CR
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    Airborne-

    I've got no problem with honest debate either, if that's what it really is. The problem comes from people who want to whiz on your shoes and tell you it's raining. They come into a debate, and lacking any real substance and/or value, they start with the juvenile name calling and similar behavior, and think this is debate. This spirals into petty arguments. That's where people get ****ed.

    As for debate, I too enjoy it. I just haven't really seen that much difference between our opinions. It would probably be pretty boring for both of us. Maybe someday.
    Steve Gallagher
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    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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    I concede to a point......"Firehouse Politics, are doable!" It is the Lawyer-Government-Press type people I was referring to (LOL) despicable types.

    Airborne......I think everyone likes a debate to a point, hell I play Devil's Advocate here enough, to get the folks stirred up, but while it has never affected you......have you considered "Your Affect on Others?" By prior admission, your a rookie FF, so maybe a little caution may make your day.

    That thread on what wound up being Religious in Nature....lost it's point. What was debateable was.....conformity or non-conformity. Noooooo (LOL) I won't go there again, enough has been said!
    "All gave some......Some gave all!"
    Lest we forget.........9/11/01
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    Yes it would be nice to have a debate where some one was not ****ing on your shoes as you said.

    I just tend to ignore people like that and respond to the ones that are bringing a good argument to the table.

    It is funny because my mother and me are complete opposites when it comes to politics and religion yet we are able to talk about these things all the time, and respect each other.

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    "BLOOD"...brother, will always be thicker then "WATER"
    "All gave some......Some gave all!"
    Lest we forget.........9/11/01
    "Former Senior Member"
    RESCUEDAWG----FDNYRR

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    Talking Man talk about violating all three

    Man Airborne, you not only violated RdRunnrs rules, you did it in one sentence!

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    i didn't think there was any subject safet to debate.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
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    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

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    Default Re: Man talk about violating all three

    Originally posted by glowpop
    Man Airborne, you not only violated RdRunnrs rules, you did it in one sentence!
    If you think he only broke the "Mothers and Politics" part of Roadrunner's original post, check out the firey debate going on here... http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=46486

    I can't get away from politics being brought up at the firehouse as I have 3/4 of the union exec. board on my shift.
    "What makes a person run into a building others are running out of?...Character."- Dennis Smith

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    Default

    I always thought these were called discussion threads, not debate threads.

    Airborne, you stated "I just tend to ignore people like that and respond to the ones that are bringing a good argument to the table." Your posting history throughout these forums proves otherwise.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    Unhappy And it ends up hurting everyone...

    Originally posted by Steamer

    I've got no problem with honest debate either, if that's what it really is. The problem comes from people who want to whiz on your shoes and tell you it's raining. They come into a debate, and lacking any real substance and/or value, they start with the juvenile name calling and similar behavior, and think this is debate. This spirals into petty arguments. That's where people get ****ed.
    ...And this really hurts the whole learning process on these forums. Some of the topics that have been axed by the Webteam because they feel responsible for removing threads that go out of control are really topics of some importance. For example, I know from personal past experience that the issue of "brewed malt and distilled beverages" (I can't say the "A" word anymore, I suppose) in and around fire stations is a major operational and safety issue in some segments of the American fire service. The real damage that comes from the fact that some forum users can't handle a civilized discussion on this subject (and similarly emotional ones) is that future users who may be caused to rethink their views because of a responsible discussion here won't rethink...because that responsible discussion will now never happen. If I were in the Webteam's shoes, however, I probably wouldn't have labeled the topics of some of the closed threads as inappropriate, I would have singled people out and labeled their behavior as inappropriate (and probably gotten sued for slander, libel, or something). After all, this is the Webteam's "private property," and they have the right to deny admission to anyone they wish.

    So...I can't really criticize the Webteam for shutting down an out-of-control thread. I wish, instead, that they'd shut down out-of-control users when they can identify them, and hope that the user community will (by "survival of the civilized", so to speak)evolve to the point where responsible discussion and debate can continue. Having said that, I also know that this is much easier said than done (as well as more costly), and I would't want to be in the position of moderating some of what goes on here in the Forums.

    So please, let's all keep it professional, or (at least) relatively civil, shall we??

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    Default

    Originally posted by IACOJRev
    I always thought these were called discussion threads, not debate threads.

    Airborne, you stated "I just tend to ignore people like that and respond to the ones that are bringing a good argument to the table." Your posting history throughout these forums proves otherwise.
    You will have to enlighten me then because I think that I have always been pretty civil here, and I don't think that I have responded to nay one that is not being civil.

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    Default

    Please, please do not put words in my mouth... I never said you were not civil, nor was incivility implied in my statement. You claimed to ignore people who were deficating on other's footwear - I don't see that.

    You love to debate and that is a valuable skill to have.
    So is knowing when to use it.

    I know from reading other threads that you are still in the acd'y, and I want encourage you to be careful when you get out... I have seen many good, new FFs get a bad reputation around the station because they insisted on debating.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    I see what you are saying. Well there is one quality about myself that I'm proud of, and that is the ability to know when to keep my mouth shut.

    I guess I get that from being in the miltary, I have learned that the only think worse then not knowing, is not knowing that you don't know, and the only way to combat that is to shut yer mouth and open yer ears when you are the new guy.

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    I fully support the gag order on religion, politics (that don't directly affect the fire service) etc.

    I am curious to see how long it holds up.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

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    Ut-oh! Hope I'm not the one being given credit for a gag-order.......mine was but a suggestion that specific topics go no-where, especially amongst firefighters. Heck my biggest problem is keeping my own mouth shut!
    "All gave some......Some gave all!"
    Lest we forget.........9/11/01
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    Default

    Originally posted by Duffman
    I fully support the gag order on religion, politics (that don't directly affect the fire service) etc.

    I am curious to see how long it holds up.
    Then how in the world am I supposed to discuss my mother, who is running for Senate (except on Sundays when she goes to Church)?

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    Talking

    After a very long week, reading this thread has me laughing. That's why I love you guys. You can even debate on whether or not to debate.
    I do love a good intelligent debate.


    Oh Geroge
    Then how in the world am I supposed to discuss my mother, who is running for Senate
    What party is she running for?

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    Cool Add to the "off-limits" topics?

    Besides the above mentioned topics, can we add:

    ISO Larry
    Career-Volunteer..
    Smoothbore vs Fog..
    and
    "How many lights is too much on my pickup?"



    Doc
    DC2, ex-FDNY (E74)

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    cheffie, she'll be right there at the party for the "High Holy Day" on 3/17 (oh wait, that's religious).

    John, I will agree to politics, mothers, religion and even hockey (PA, ditch the logo, 5-1?). But I will never, ever stop "debating" the light issue. You cannot take away all of our fun. In fact, I may start one of those threads again, it's been awhile.

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    Talking

    The premis of the whole thing was that people form thier ideas and persepctives on things when they are between 7 and 12 years old.
    So how's that explain me? I was a tree-hugger when I was 12.

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