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  1. #1
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    Default forcible entry tools.

    Meaningful debate wanted? How about "What does your dept use and what tool(s) do you prefer for forcible entry". I'm sure the various proponents of Halligans, Kellys, sledgehammers and ax's all have something to say! Me? I prefer the halligan (sometimes refered to as a "hooligan tool" in my part of the world.


  2. #2
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    I agree, the "hooligan" is my second tool of choice. My brain would be my first. As silly as this may be, I was recently at an incident were a crewmember was holding a "hooligan" and a crusty ol' captain proceeded to take a door with foot.

  3. #3
    Permanently Removed Kvfcjr's Avatar
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    either a set of irons, or our new partner saw!

  4. #4
    Permanently Removed Kvfcjr's Avatar
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    ALthough, the best forcible enery tool is the hand, because sometimes all you have to is turn the door knob!

  5. #5
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    The irons are my pick-most versatile in my mind at least.

  6. #6
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    Kvfcjr (or anybody else), just a clarification re "irons" for an Australian, does this mean the halligan tool and sledge-ax combo???

  7. #7
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    the irons are a halligan tool and a flat head axe-sometimes they are held together or "married" by a strap.

  8. #8
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    What about Knox Box systems? My town very recently enacted a knox box ordinance with no grandfather clause. Sounds great, but we have multiple apartment complexes that are quite large (over 150 units) and the location of some of the boxes are very obscure. We make every attempt to keep our listing current showing the locations, however, our SOP is that if there is smoke showing, we go for the tools. Anybody out there with this similiar problem with knox boxes?

  9. #9
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    Thanks truckie226, we do it similar then, except we have a sledge-ax with the halligan, and don't actually have a name for the two in combination, but "irons" sure is easier to say than "halligan and sledge-ax"

  10. #10
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    hey frosty-you guys should have worked into that ordinance somewhere that the fire department had to approve the location.

  11. #11
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    Well....we made every attempt to have the ordinance state specific locations, but...........board members thought differently. The arguement made by local businesses was that the boxes are "unsightly" and pose a security issue. We made every attempt to counter this, but to no avail. We have recently obtained an abandoned hospital and training is nothing but forcible entry. K-tool, irons, saws, sledges, etc are all being put to the test on many different types of doors. We also "tested" access to the abandoned knox box and to date we have not opened it. We hope to show this "evidence" to local businesses so that they will work with us on mounting locations.

  12. #12
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Smile Coupleathings...........

    I polled the crew, and here's the list:...
    Fudge..... Irons
    Sandi..... 12 Lb Hammer
    Porkchop.. 48 In. Halligan
    Short Bus. Size 10 Boot
    Paul...... Irons
    Krystal... Flathead/Halligan
    Katie..... Shepherds Hook
    Jay....... K12
    Bobby..... Slidehammer
    Me........ 21 inch Husquvarna Saw W/Carbide Tip Chain

    And, We carry lots more stuff..... Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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    www.gdvfd18.com

  13. #13
    Member AnIndustrialFF's Avatar
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    I certainly don't want to seem like an idiot, but curiosity is killing me.... I've never heard of a 'knox box'. What is it? Storage place for keys to high rise buildings ? In Canada, we call that 'drunken superintendant'.
    -- 'I learn something new every day, unfortunately most of it comes from reading beer coasters...'

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Frosty42
    Well....we made every attempt to have the ordinance state specific locations, but...........board members thought differently. The arguement made by local businesses was that the boxes are "unsightly" and pose a security issue. We made every attempt to counter this, but to no avail.
    Our answer to this feedback is how "unsightly" it will be and how unsecure the building will be when we end up taking a door because of a delayed key holder.

    To answer your question AnIndustrialFF, a Knox Box is a small security box that holds the keys to the building it's attached to. The key to the box is registered to the fire agency and only that agency will have that key. In our case, each front line vehicle and chief carry one of these keys.

    For more infomation on it here's the link to their web site:
    http://www.knoxbox.com

  15. #15
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    We always dismount with a set of irons, but the most important rule for forcible entry is "try before you pry." But I guess in my area it's safe enough that a lot of people leave everything unlocked, so FE's not a big issue.

  16. #16
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    So far this year, we have had about 14 calls for broken water pipes in residences with no one home. 12 of them we made entry using a 4" putty knife. No damage, got pretty quick at it after the first 4. However, when fire involved, irons for most doors. We are also trying out a RabbitTool on metal doors.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
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    Default Tools

    Well for a no damage entry a shove knife works great.
    But for forcing one the Irons, or we have a hand hydrallic jack
    but it does get in the way it it jams in the locked position.
    But if makes short work of a Steel frame/steel door. Or I know of a
    dept. that uses one of the Halmotoro battery power spreaders.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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  18. #18
    Forum Member dfd3dfd3's Avatar
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    Typically use the irons, or on metal frame doors or a lot of doors the rabbit tool. for more difficult doors, the circular saw or even you can use your extrication tool if it is portable.

    I like to call the irons the keys to the city because you can pretty much get into anyplace u want to go with them.

  19. #19
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    Down here, they tend to pair the Hooligan up with a 12 pound sledge - they figure that brute force will overcome lack of technique I'm trying to educate them that it's really called a Halligan and that it was designed to be used in conjunction with a flat head axe - but it's an uphill battle. Sometimes I feel that I go firefighting with the firefighting equivalent of stone-age man, rather than firefighters who are craftspeople.

    We don't have a sledge/axe combination though like Pumper41
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber dsblev's Avatar
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    Our dept is working on having a city ordinance passed that is designed to make all businesses current and prospective to install knox box systems. The biggest question of everyone involved in this process is who will carry the key(s) to open the knoxbox system. The liability in this situation is high. We have decided to proceed with the system that allows the knoxbox key to be installed in a box on the first due engine. Upon arrival we need instant access a chief or chief designated officer such as deputy chief or lt can call central dispatch. Central can send a tone over our radio freq that unlocks the box in the truck giving us access to the key to unlock the lock box. This takes a minute more but eliminates any questions about when the key is used. There will be a record on the E-911 tapes.

    As for what we do now. We take pride in trying to help the person in "trouble" (business or residential) keep the building looking good. The entry teams are required to take the set of "irons" in with them as well as rit and other teams. If the door has a cylindrical lock we use the k-tool to take the lock and enter the door in that manner. We are now involved in a customer service industry, always try to minimize damage.
    ----------------------------
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