I am still amazed at how some people view rural firefighting. My department has been using ICS, accountability and riding assignments for some time now, yet just last week I heard grumblings from the peanut gallery that the officers were trying to "Turn us city,when we are not." I was floored that a certain few still believe those tactics are just for "The City". These folks think it's acceptable to step off a rig with reckless abandon and attack a structure fire like a bunch of free-lancing chimps. Another famous quote from this minority of individuals "There's never been any fire put out with a portable radio." They feel they should be left on the rig.
Moral of this story? Folks, if you are rural or urban...you are held to the same standards of performance...so train and work accordingly.
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03-25-2003, 01:47 PM #1
Ya done went and turned "Slicker" on us...dincha boy...well..DINCHA??!!May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.
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03-25-2003, 01:55 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA
It sure makes you think, especially when the ICS system was originally introduced for Wildland systems and was adopted and adapted for all types of incidents.........Sure glad Im a city boy.
03-25-2003, 03:05 PM #3
We found a very special way that made the old timers buy into ICS. We don't call it ICS, we don't refer to it as ICS, heck...most of them don't know what ICS really is other than "it's for the big paid departments." We use it on every call, they just don't realize it. We refer to it as "the way we used to do things."
As for accountability, we got lucky, most people don't fight that as we do a simple system.
My moral, work it in slowly, don't worry about what it's called, get your "core" group of FF's doing it, and it will happen. Worked for us, ain't saying it will work for everyone."This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
03-25-2003, 03:22 PM #4
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
- Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
RURAL ICS BY ANOTHER ROSE? OR IS THAT A ROSE BY ICS???
Like Bones said, take the acronym off, or change it to suit, either way, it still works, and can be encouraged to work, with some help.
My rural dept uses it, with the necessary modifications as applied to our area, and our needs, but it is always in place and can be expanded if needed. Sure makes life simple in an otherwise crazy situation.
Actually during a wildfire lecture a few weeks back our Training Guy, who also works with BC Forestry talked about ICS. We touched very briefly on it, and during the course of the discussion, it was found that BC Forestry doesn't actually use ICS and worse still they don't use the same dictionary as the rest of us. Apparently that makes for a very interesting coordinatated working relationship, but for us anyway, it's not too bad cuz our T.O. knows the "Lingo".
Seems kinda funny that there are still a lot of places that either won't or don't use ICS in some format. I guess if the shoe fits.....
Originally posted by StayBack500FT
Moral of this story? Folks, if you are rural or urban...you are held to the same standards of performance...so train and work accordingly.If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)
"I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD
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03-25-2003, 04:35 PM #5
- Join Date
- Mar 2003
>>My moral, work it in slowly, don't worry about what it's called, get your "core" group of FF's doing it, and it will happen.<<
I'm with you there. In my dept, the white hats are still in the dark ages on stuff like this and don't like it at all. All the "you don't put fires out with tags on a board" stuff. Change happens slowly. I'm sad to say that the "core group" here got together with our wives, put all relevant NFPA/OSHA etc etc regs in a packet and told them if we are ever hurt or killed hire a lawyer and sue the **** out of them.
And I really hate saying that because I hate lawyers and all the BS lawsuits. But when you are being ORDERED by the chief to NOT pull backup lines, take SCBA off at propane leaks, not put it on an CO detector calls and NOT cut battery cables at MVA's what else can you do?
At the moment, the old rednecks are a bigger voting block and think all this "city" stuff is amusing and unnecessary. All them rules don't apply to us, were volunteers...
One day at a time. Inch by inch.
03-27-2003, 09:54 AM #6
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
They're still with us........
Dinosaurs ARE NOT extinct! Look under the next white helment that passes by...... (lol) Stay Safe....Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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03-27-2003, 11:12 AM #7
I am sorry to here about these problems, especially when it is a subject first addressed many years ago. In my department, the old timers really hate to follow ICS as well, but the funny thing is, they really are following it and don't even realize it. It is all in how your operations are set-up, organized, and who's in charge.IACOJ Military Division
"There are three kinds of men: The ones who learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest of them who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
03-27-2003, 01:27 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Watching your back!
Stayback,I swear we are at the same department.
I'm trying to get ICS, Accountability and TRAINING implemented at the rural department I volunteer at.
The things I've heard on the apparatus floor is just amazing "we don't need 1 3/4 hose, thats for city fires" or "we dont need accountability, I just look out in the street and see whos truck is out there"
Its amazing that no-one who drives any of our apparatus can figure friction loss or can tell you what the flow is for a given line. "I just crank up the pressure til they tell me its enough"
We have officers that have never been to a department training or have taken any academy training more than basic firefighter.
There are plenty of reminders out there of our "victories".....chimneys and driveways where houses used to be.
Never mind the filthy condition of the station and apparatus.
Oh I could go on
03-27-2003, 01:44 PM #9
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
I think that it is amazing that this stuff happens. We are a rural dept. but we operate as safe, efficient, and proffesional as possible, which mean that ICS, Accountability, and any other "big city" tactics and operations we can. Our department is near the only city in our whole county and we are sometimes referred to as that cities northern counterpart because we operate like a paid dept while being a volunteer dept. We catch flack from the volunteer departments that keep it as much like the old days as they can but when they need help we are the ones they turn to because they dont have the systems established like we do. Not to criticize any volunteer departments but it is time to move on and become more progressive fire prevention entity.This statements made above do not represent the agency i belong to in any shape or form. So if i say something stupid its just me.
03-28-2003, 08:51 AM #10
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
This last week I heard a new saying that fits appropriately here
100 years of tradition un-impeded by progress
If you don't respond.....who will
IACOJ EMS Bureau Member
03-28-2003, 10:28 AM #11
I know what you mean we are in the middle of a transition from
what you are dealing with. We are a Combo Dept. Our former Training
Officer was an "Old School" firefighter. The words progressive and new
were foul and unheard of in his office. We have removed him and got a new group of high speed advanced training people. The big help for us was our Chief seen what we wanted to implement and he backs us. He got all the dept together and told everyone this is how its going to be....if you don't like it, you know where the door is. We are training in ICS,Accountability, and other tactics. We have found it is sometime harder to get the Officers to do their part in ICS as opposed to a firefighter. Best thing is keep "smacking them with the newspaper" and you will get htem trained.AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo
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03-28-2003, 11:35 AM #12
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