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  1. #1
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    Unhappy DELETED

    ATTACKS AGAINST YOURSELF WILL NOT BE TOLLERATED!


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    Last edited by fiNEWBIEre; 12-17-2004 at 07:10 PM.


  2. #2
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    No you shouldn't be kicked out for a condition such as this espically if you put it on your applictaion and were still excepted. It sounds like the Chief just wants to do away with the explorers. However your chief could get in real trouble for making you leave the scene, since your a minor the officer in charge is responsible for you from the time you leave until you return and even at that you should never have been forced to walk home he should have let you go to the EMS unit and get treated or at the very least sit in the truck until the call is over.

  3. #3
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    I agree with Station32, you should not have been sent home, and you should have been treated on scene. However; no matter what the call is, your personal safety is more important. You said that you went on the call without taking your medication. That was a mistake. You must take care of your health and safety first before you go on the fire call. If this means that you have to skip the call to make sure that you are going to be all right you have to do that. If for some reason you had been performing an important task on the fireground and your hypoglycemia had "taken over" and you had collapsed, you could have put fellow fire fighters in jeopardy.
    With your accountability tag, despite the fact you definitely should not have been sent home the way you did, you are responsible for your tag and once you left the scene, you should have taken the tag.
    Now, I definitely think that the chief was in the wrong here, so don't think I am taking his side, I am definitely not. However, in the future, you have to take responsibility for your medical condition, and if this means not going on a call, then that is what you have to do.
    Good luck in the future, stay safe,
    ~DAN

  4. #4
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    yeah there is no reason you should have been booted like that. i gues the onlything to do is go over the top and report him.
    never forget 343 FDNY
    in memory of 40 ENGINE/35 TRUCK
    normal people spend their life's avoiding intense situations.....a fireman's life is an intence situation.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber fyrfyter33's Avatar
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    Default Re: When do Explorer posts go too far?

    Originally posted by fiNEWBIEre
    They have recently been trying to get rid of the explorer post, which is actually operated by the ambulance corps. The older members told us that if we get hurt, not to say anything, or the explorer post would be shut down. Nobody has ever really been injured, but myself and my twin brother have hypoglycemia, and on a recent call, I attended, I responded with out taking my medicine. I mentioned that I wasn't feeling well, and they made me leave. The chief heard it all, and said out loud, but not directly at me, if you have to be treated, your out. They don't want weaklings in his company. Don't get it wrong, I'm a normal, healthy teenager, just have that one little flaw, you know... Being a human. I don't have a mental, problem, but I wasn't completely there. When my sugar gets low I get sort of "Spaced out", almost as if I were drink. Otherwise, you'd never know. ..........My questions was, why didn't they think the chief was wrong, for making me leave and refusing to allow me to get to the EMS truck where a tube of the supposedly lemon tasting glucose would have cured me? After I complained like a squeeky wheel, the chief was booted b/c he screwed up again by threatening the wrong person. But does an explorer post really have the right to kick people out b/c, just like any other human, they may be injured or become ill? I mean, if someone cut's their hand, is that really ground for expulsion?
    Apparently not all of your advisors really know the ins and outs of the explorer program and how it is designed. If you are in fact running a chartered Fire Explorer program, and have been paying your dues on time every year, then you shouldn't have a problem. The reason they pay those dues, is for insuance coverage. if an explorer get hurt and is within the guidelines as provided by the BSA, then the BSA insurance policy will cover any explorer who is hurt. In the existence, of our fire explorer post which has been around for 9 years, and is one of the oldest posts in our area, We have only had one explorer injured, and our Township's insurance took care of him well in advance of the BSA's insurance. Go to this site and click on Safety Issues.
    http://www.learning-for-life.org/exp...ire/index.html It will tell you exactly what fire explorers may perform and what they may not. As long as you fall within those guidelines, anything that happens and injures an explorer, will be covered. you are only human, and the department has no right to kick you out for a medical condition that you have. We have several explorers who have asthma, as well as other problems with understanding things the first time, and sometimes reading, and we have never mentioned removing any of them because of the medical ailments. That is plain wrong, and politically incorrect. If the department really cannot work with you, then I would say there are problems within the organization of the fire department, and not so much problems within the explorer post. What is the department going to do if a firefighter gets injured? Are they gonna kick him out too? Accidents happen and they just ahve to be taken care of. If we got rid of everyone that got injured, we wouldn't have a fire department at all.

    From an advisors point of view, I would recommend, that you guys start working on paperwork for all of your explorers. We have on file EMA's (Emergency Medical Authorization) forms for all of our explorers as well as other forms with who to contact, and anything we need to know about the individual explorer. If you would like copies or someone in your department would like copies, let me know,through Private Message and I will get them to you.

    Just so you have a little background on me, I started as an explorer at the age of 14 as well. I was an explorer til I was 18, and then started working for our department. from 18-22, i was a post advisor, and now I am 23, and the Assistant Chairman for the Tri-State Fire Exploring Committee, based out of Cincinnati, OH. We do several events yearly for the area explorer posts, and not to gloat or anything, but I am very familiar with the Fire Exploring Program through the BSA.

    Good Luck and Stay Safe!
    Last edited by fyrfyter33; 04-07-2003 at 12:54 PM.

  6. #6
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Holy S*#&. Anyone who THINKS like that let alone actually acts on it doesn not deserve to be in command. I'm glad and concider yourselves lucky he is gone. As an advisor for an explorer post, let me make a few points regarding this...

    1. Don't forget your medication. It's important but it is not the root of the problems here. Everyone forgets things and we move one.

    2. One of the big virtues of an Explorer Post is that ANYONE can join. It doesn't matter what physical or mental ailments you have. Denying membership or booting someone because they are mentally or physically handicapped or have Hypoglycemia is a violation of the BSA rules and is ILLEGAL.

    3. If you are acting like an ***, horseing around, or doing something you know damn well you aren't allowed to do and get hurt, I can understand suspension or expulsion. But regular "everyday" type injuries are not. If you trip and hurt your knee or get cut on something by accident, that is a "deal with it, learn from it" injury, not a "GET OUT" injury.

    4. Kicking you OFF THE SCENE and making you WALK home is BS, against BSA rules, and probably illegal. Making you do that knowing that you were in the begining stages of hypoglycemia is NEGLIGENCE. The fact that he lied about it to the others causing a delay in medical attention sent you into diabetic shock and could have KILLED YOU. I can not keep within the board rules and describe my opinion of that man nor what I would have had to say to him after it. Lets just say it wouldn't have been pretty if that happened to one of my Explorers.

    5. As for the officers not liking the Explorer post. Well, there isn't much you can do about that. Some people just enjoy the power they are given a wee bit too much. The best thing you can do for yourselves is to show the rest of the dept that you are a worthwile program. Don't dwell on the @ssholes and their opinion. Make the best of what you do, and act your best around the other members. I mean, don't flaunt yourselves and look like ego-maniacs but make an effort to look good.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  7. #7
    Temporarily/No Longer Active dfdex1's Avatar
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    Well let me start of by saying your "chief" is a complete dogan and that black turnouts dont get any hotter than any other turnouts.

    Anyway it is completely unprofessional that he did that-if anyone needed a ride in the ambulance it was you. It was probally best that dogan was booted cause I think he was sick too with "Headstuckinassitis" because he obviously doesnt have the brains or compassion to be a Chief.
    Do your adviseors know that this happend? Why is your Chief responding to medical aides anyway?

    But (dont take this as unsensitive to your situation)it was also partially your fault knowingly not takeing your medicine and responding to a call knowing that it was hot and you tend to black out without it. What would of happend if you were a real ff and were in a building and you blacked out cause you did take your meds? Im not trying to come down on you but dont get so caught up in the moment over a medical aide.

    I started in feb. to require explorers here to carry a bottle of water or Gatorade in the radio pockets of there turnouts at all times.
    A 24oz. bottle fits in there perfectly and it is out of the way. What you should do is goto the drug store and buy a few of those glucose tubes and keep them in your turnouts so when its hot out out you got water and sugar you need.

    Remember your gear is there to protect you,by putting a bottle of Gatorade and a glucose stick in there you only enhance your personal protection.

    good luck
    dfd
    you got any questions email me
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  8. #8
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    dfdex1, that is an excellent idea. Carry a tube or two of the Super Sugar. It can never make you worse and will only help you when you need it. I think you know that you made a mistake by going without taking the meds. Like I said, learn from it and try not to do it again. However, that is not the root of the problem. That just brought the problem a potentialy deadly level of awareness.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  9. #9
    Temporarily/No Longer Active dfdex1's Avatar
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    Oh and that reminds me,there are certain things you just dont mess with in the fire service.Like your car,gear,woman and your ACOUNTABILITY TAGS! I honestly would not feel to bad about this guy getting booted,because more than one person obviously voted him off!


    PS nmfire nice Ford Ranger EDGE!
    Last edited by dfdex1; 04-08-2003 at 12:24 PM.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber btroutm's Avatar
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    I would have to say that the chief got off easy if he only lost his job. He endangered your life by making you leave the scene, knowing you had a medical problem, and then tried to cover it up later. He does not deserve to be a part of a fire department.

    That being said, he is not the only one to blame. Somebody else should have stepped up and defended you on scene, and you should have never left. You should have walked over to an EMT, told them you were hypoglycemic and needed sugar, and taken it. There is nothing the chief can do to stop you (if he touched you, you could have his *** thrown in jail). Don't let people push you around, especially with your life on the line.

    A side note: if you are hypoglycemic and working under stressful conditions, you should ALWAYS have some form of sugar on you.

  11. #11
    Member smatt2003's Avatar
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    I couldn't agree with all of you more that chief was wrong!
    FF. EMT-B M. Hesek
    Northborough Fire Dept
    Northborough MA

    NEVER FORGET DECEMBER 3rd '99

  12. #12
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Not to be too hard on you, but what is the Boy Scouts motto??
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  13. #13
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    WHAT?!?! Oh lord you folks have some serious issues that need to be dealt with ASAP!! Your called explorers but your not? You get kicked out because you cut your hand and aren't "man enough" to let your hand just fall off and grow back? This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen and I don't know how much anyone on here is going to be able to do about it. If you become "juniors" and are not part of the BSA after age 16, you have none of their protection. It is still BS though.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  14. #14
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Question hmmm



    I have read and re-read the initial post. All of your responses are on target. But one has to wonder if there is not more to this story???? Any of you other veterans out there have the samewonder?

    I would have to ask why you chose to wear your BLACK gear instead of carry it?

    If the Chief actually did this exactly as you describe, there is a need for intervention by some 3rd party.. The acts (if committed) are acts of total disregaurd for firefighter safety and disregard of the principles of the incident command system.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  15. #15
    Member Dushore5741's Avatar
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    It doesn't add up..? Even if the chief was an idiot, nobody can be that stupid! Ya ever heard of a lawsuit? I'd sue his *** off. This is a great example of gross negligence! Not only on the chief, but the whole company. If you're standing next to a fellow fireman, who says that he's feeling ill, and is known to have a serious condition, and you watch as their made to walk away, you're as bad as the chief. Back to my point. Anyone agree? The "story" doesn't fit, is it possible to have that many negligent people in a fire Dept..? Is this what people have coming when they call 911?
    Last edited by Dushore5741; 04-12-2003 at 05:46 PM.

  16. #16
    Fighting81st
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    Angry Agreeing with dushore5741

    As a Junior Member of the Firefighting Service in Pennsylvainia what the chief did was illegal, according to the book Junior Firefighters of the Commonwealth. This book has a pink cover and i reecently read because i was bored. THE OFFICER ON SCENE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE JUNIOR MEMBER AT ALL TIMES. He should be penalized by the law and I am also glad that he is kicked out.

    Sincerely,
    A Brother from PA

  17. #17
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    The initial question was a good one althought I think we may not have had the correct information or maybe even all of it. I would love to hear the other side of the story. Both the initial poster and the one the precedes this one seem fairly new to the forums.. So..here is some advice.

    To the initial poster I would say next time get more information and facts before posting......"do your homework" as some would say.


    To fighting81st I would say...To be penalized under the law there have to be charges and a trial. It is nice that you are familiar with state laws that effect your organization...but are you a lawyer or judge? How can you make assertions that he is guilty when we have only one (1) post that involves actual information on the incident. Be careful of jumping to conclusions.

    Stay Safe
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  18. #18
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    These types of situations are exactly why I say "Explorers should not be allowed on any type of scene" Your right, you should have been treated on scene for your condition but then again you shouldnt have been there in the first place. A minor can not be legally responsible for his/her actions, Someone else has to do that for them, When that someone else is someone who is preforming another great task at the same time things can get crazy....If jr's are going to be on emergency scenes each one of them needs someone right there holding their hand. Someone who doesn't have to do anything else besides watching the JR>

  19. #19
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    "Explorers should not be allowed on any type of scene"
    in my dept when i show up the firefighters love it because no one has to "hold my hand" because i know what im doing.also it sounds like you have a problem with explorers/Jrs what ever it may be plzs keep it to yourself and not post bashing explorers.

  20. #20
    Forum Member WFDjr1's Avatar
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    1118, the whole bashing Juniors and Explorers thing isn't needed. I may not be a Junior anymore, but it still isn't necessary. Besides, if you dislike them so much, why are you bashing them in their own forum? They don't go into the Firefighters' Forum and gripe about you, so the least you could do is give them the same respect.
    These are my opinions, not those of my career department, my volunteer company, or my affiliates. And by the way, I'm not a Junior.

    Buy me a drink, sing me a song, take me as I come 'cause I can't stay long.

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