1. #1
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    Angry Unfair Treatment ?? Need your opinion

    Hello, names have been changed to protect the parties involved in this situation. A "FRIEND" of mine is on a volunteer Squad. "HE" has been on this squad for the past year. One of there new members who joined up in January has been the brunt of alot of jokes..being the FNG or "the new guy" as we all call him. Well..the other night these people were sitting around in the building. "MY FRIEND" fired back a joke to the new guy in response for a joke earlier that day who was sitting in the other room. The 3rd LT was sitting in the room that "MY FRIEND" was in. The new guy charged into the room and knocked "my friend" to the ground. The hit was so hard it made him fly 4-5ft across the room and land pretty hard. "MY FRIEND" got the wind knocked out of him and injured his knee while landing.. the new guy then quickly left the building. Now here is what doesnt seem right. An Incident report was filed the proper people were notified. A board meeting was called and the punishment portion is what seems unfair to ME & "MY FRIEND" are that the parties involved both recieved a 2 week building ban. which means they cannot hang out at hte meeting. But may answer calls and participate in fundraisers etc. I find this to be unfair. #1 "MY FRIEND" was assaulted for ball busting. and #2 "MY FRIEND" believes the new guy being on probation still should of had a more severe punishment. So let me hear your opinions on this...
    Last edited by Engine58; 04-08-2003 at 05:05 PM.
    Andrew
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    New Jersey

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    Rules? No horseplay allowed in the firehall. If you break the rule, you pay the price. Are there rules like this there? Oh wait, it's not "YOUR" Squad, it's "YOUR FRIENDS". Weren't there, can't say, there are always 3 sides to a story, his, your friends, and the truth. A 2 week no hanging out at the building punishment is not a big deal, if that's making your friend consider quitting, your friend is not there for the right reason. It's not about hanging out, it's about answering calls and helping people. Take the 2 weeks (you can help Mom and Dad around the house) and move on with life, it's not that big a deal. Don't waste your life worrying about what someone else gets as punishment.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Man Up. Take the suspension, come back and forget it ever happened. Your "friend" may have gone a bit too far, your FNG may have onion skin.. these things happen.

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    first off 2 weeks isnt that bad..and thats just for meetings. your friend can still go to calls which is the main reason hes on(atleast it should be) also let him know that he better make up with the guy or stay away from him because now the officers will be looking at your friend and the NFG more closly and if another incident happens have him expect a bigger punishment. also tell him to take it like a man..you do the crime you do the time.
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    What is the definition of harassment? Could these "ball busters" be construed as harassment by the new guy? Can he handle a joke? Apparently not. I'd take the two week suspension and be happy that is all I got if it were me.
    I'm the king of jokers, but even I know when I'm taking it too far...

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    Ok the "FRIEND" was me,sorry tried getting the story out without having to say I was involved but yea, I'm there to answer calls and help the community. What I am annoyed about is, the words that were exchanged before he attacked me were nothing compared to what he has said to me in the past which I just let go. Yes there is a no horseplay rule for our building but joking around verbally...I dont think that is considered horseplay. What really gets me is..I was attacked and we both get the same punishment. when I did nothing to retaliate in return. Only reason I was thinking of going to another squad is there was past political situations that also have taken place where other members who'm done far off worst things than the situation above have been let off easy because of who there parents are..or family members are. I guess its all around no matter where you go. Yea I am toughing the 2 weeks out and I do consider myself lucky.
    Andrew
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    Originally posted by Engine58
    Ok the "FRIEND" was me
    THE SECRET IS OUT!

    Eric

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    OMG!!! You can't hang around the firehouse for two weeks!!! The world is coming to an end!!!

    SUCK IT UP!

    Leave your current squad because you got banned from the building for 2 weeks? Nice dedication and loyalty...get out of my face...you make me sick.
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    Adze, There is alot of past politics and problems that you are unware of. .. I am as dedicated and loyal as they come. My call #'s are in the 40's & 50's every month and we average 100 calls a month..I attend every meeting and Hand in my 50/50's I do my duties...So this incident was kindof the breaking point. Which is why I was thinking about leaving. That being said.. Instead of leaving I've decided to take a leave of absence and take it easy for a few months. And I need to seperate the Fire dept rules from the squads. I was told in the firehouse if you get you balls busted and people joke around with you, that you are well liked. This kid who attacked me was explained this the day he was sworn in. He also told people that sometimes he snaps for no reason and when this happens he cant stop himself. These are also reasons I feel more thought should have been put into what punishments were giving out. I really dont care that I cant hang out at the building for 2 weeks. Its more of the types of punishments that were given to us. Didnt mean to come off as being upset for not being able to hang out at the building. I just posted this situation to see what others think about both of us getting the same punishment.
    Andrew
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    New Jersey

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    OK, first off we have one rule at our station. "If there is a fight, both members are out." In the situation you explained, you would both be OUT. No stories or explanations needed, two of you hassled each other to the point of anger and that is not acceptable.

    Grow up, do the two weeks and get back to the coal face. It will look stupid when the other guy wanders in after two weeks and resumes his duties, while you are sulking at the local bar.

    My guess is the bosses were letting everybody know that the both of you were equally to blame for the situation, him for decking you, and you for ragging him in the first place.

    Try getting to know him a bit better, he might be the one who saves your ***** in the future.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Default Chief material?

    Ladies and gentlemen:
    I believe that we may have found our next chief!
    But seriously, I have to wonders about times like these. There's always more questions than answers.
    For instance: can anyone tell me why the preconnect was connected to the hydrant outside of the bar in "Backdraft"? And there seemed to be alot of pressure for just being hooked up to a hydrant.
    Let me know.
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    Talking Huh???

    Does having a preconnect on the hydrant have anything to do with painting the top of the fire engine black??? Or did spending too much time in the bar contribute ?............ Stay Safe....
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    Default Live and Learn

    Engine,
    Hey I read in a post on another thread how you said you were a probie and that was a few months ago!! I also get the vibe you are not even over 20 yrs old. Maybe you should relize that when you rip on someone it's really not funny. I think rips are all done in good fun, but get some career years first. I am a cadet and I don't mind getting ripped by the vetrans, but if some guy younger than me and only had a month or two more seniority was ripping me day in day out. I would want to pancake his butt too,(I'd probably just **** in his boots) Hey you don't have to listen to me I'm a Rook but it's free advice.

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    Originally posted by TrojanHorse


    In our club house we had two guys discussing radio traffic and what needs to be said. One guy works as a part time dispatcher. The part time dispatcher got so mad he threw a full beer can at the other guy (missed). He got 30 days you no go into the club house.

    Trojan Horse

    So do you see a connection here. What could have catalyzed the incident? Hint It wans't Mountain dew.

    Since when is a fire station called a clubhouse.

    Engine
    You screwed up. Be glad you only got 2 weeks. Bet you won't do it again. That is the way punishment works.

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    Engine-

    Sounds to me like someone gave you a taste of your own medicine. I have been a volly for almost 4 years now and I recently joined a combo department. Although I have experience, I am still treated as the new guy in the combo fire house. From what I have read, you were breaking some balls and probably took it too far. Also it seems like you just got off your probationary year. You of all people should know what it is like to have that type of treatment as the FNG being NFG (No F%#^ing Good). Instead of doing what the "older" guys do maybe you should have helped your new guy in teaming up against the "older" guys. I had a great first probationary year at my first fire house and I am having another great time with the new fire house. Just last night I got shaving cream in my boots after I put pool balls in the guys bed. In my old department I am called the Probie for Life. From this has come a new position for me...the Probationary Officer. This means that the Probies are mine and I can do whatever I want to them. I never take it too far. At the end of their probationary year, I and others take them out and treat them like Kings for the little hell that we put them through. Just to sum it up, you made a bad choice and the board knew that. This is why your punishment is so light because they know everyone just got a little hot under the hat....which happens from time to time. Maybe you should use the time off that you have and think of a way to heal your relationship with the person that will someday possibly save your life.


    Stay safe all my fellow Brothers' and Sisters'

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    Default Careful....

    originally posted by FELLOW FLATLANDER, F18Wub:

    Trojan Horse

    So do you see a connection here. What could have catalyzed the incident? Hint It wans't Mountain dew.
    Be careful, Wub. This could turn into another beer-ban thread.

    Gosh, that's guy's writing is familiar.....
    Last edited by jaybird210; 04-09-2003 at 03:08 PM.
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    Cool Perhaps if he had bit your ear off.......

    Engine 58.....

    Based strictly on the information you have given, I would tend to agree that the punishment for the proby are incorrect. Your departments disciplinary procedure sounds very subjective. Depending on what and how your comments came across, you have potentially set yourself up for a harrassment and/or hostile working environment charge. With that being the case, two weeks off would be reasonable....heck depending on what you said, I may have given you more time off.

    However, no one, from Chief down to the newest guy, should ever lay hands in anger on another member. This guy should have been out faster than the Republican Guard in Baghdad. The department has now set itself up for future problems, knowing this guy has an anger management problem. Who is going to be responsible when he really hurts somebody? That two weeks suspension is not going to curb that potential.

    FG
    Last edited by Firegod343; 04-09-2003 at 01:32 PM.
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    Default Yeah; I noticed too!

    I'll just throw this out, but if you want to target the new guys, target them for training. Simply making them the butt of jokes and demeaning behavior only perpetuates the MYTH that it is appropriate and necessary to crack on someone till they are on the brink. Most people know when to quit, but some take it to a sadistic level for their personal enjoyment. Joking WITH someone is one thing, but making them the butt of the joke is entirely different. Make your fire station one of inclusion instead of exclusion.
    I took my lumps as the FNG, the probie/rookie. And that's exactly the reason why I won't do it to someone else. It is unnecessary and in many cases, unwanted. When a person responds in a violent manner, playtime has gotten too rough.
    Trojanhorse: did you change names and IPs, because your topic (beer in the "clubhouse") and your writing style is sure reminiscent of a former poster. Forget it; don't answer that.
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    Default Almost forgot.

    Firegod:
    Thanks for reminding me. The punishment here DID NOT fit the crime.
    Engine 58; you would be terminated for creating a hostile work environment.
    Office Linebacker Terry Tate(probie); you would be terminated for assaulting another employee.
    And while we're at it; take a stripe from the officer who let it escalate to this physical level.
    Firefighters, gentlemen. Not fighters!
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    Really! This is strictly grade school bike-racks kind of stuff.
    I've been one of the FNG's now for about a year. My stint as Probie will be over in a month, but you can bet that compared to guys that have been together on the dept forever, I will still be the FNG for a while to come! Good old-fashioned chop-busting at the firehouse is as American as apple pie, but continual harrassment and denigration of someone who is "not in your clique" are not.

    I've been fortunate in that mostly my chops have been busted over good things, or areas where I needed to learn, and there has usually been a good lesson emedded in the laughter- even if it was at my expense.

    Any kind of fist fighting at work will get you fired from just about any job out there- both parties, no questions asked. You both got off easy, although I'd admit the probie got off easier (given that theoretically a Probie could be immediately dismissed for any number of reasons).

    Take care, be safe, and play nice!

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    I thought about that Jaybird, and I certainly don't want this to turn into that messy quagmire. This thread should be mandoatory reading for everyone new, to show you what not to do. I am also currently probationary, with a month and a half left, not that I am counting. Just because you technically have seniority on someone does not give you the right to bust on them, then get into a confrontation, and whine when you get punished. I was hired with a guy who was 8 years my senior, had much more experience than I, both in fire and EMS. I technically had more seniority, due to the list ranking. Do you think I gave him one iota of grief that was not in the normal banter. Absolutely not. In actuality, I considered him senior to me, and I learned some things from him, some that had to do with the fire service.

    The moral of the story

    Just because you have more time on the department, does not mean you are senior to someone.

    Think about that Engine.

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    well well well.................... you thought that for harassing someone you got a raw/hard deal..............well BE LUCKY THATS ALL YA GOT ! you can still attend calls and fund raisers.............serve the 2 weeks and figure out how NOT to let it happen again and yes I am with the other ewho say for get this when it is done steer clear of the probie and grow up some or we will meet ya at the monkey bars after drill !
    Last edited by Weruj1; 04-09-2003 at 11:35 PM.
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    originally posted by TrojanHorse

    In case it wans't obvious, the club house is seperate from the fire house.
    Is it just across the street?
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    sniff,sniff,sniff,........................snifffff fffffffffffffff, hmmmmmmmmm me thinks I smell a __________
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Hi from the UK,

    This website may be of interest to readers of this thread:

    http://www.fbu.org.uk/campaigns/bullying/bully2.html


    Well done to your blokes in Baghdad yesterday, I just had to watch the TV until Saddam was 'Toppled' from his perch.

    Stay safe.

    J.

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