1. #1
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    Default New info. on the 2 on, 4 off schedule.

    Hello, I have shared some info. in the past on this
    somewhat new schedule. A guy back East recently wrote
    a paper on the benefits/drawbacks of working 2 on
    and 4 off. Please email me for the reports and more
    info.

    So far, more and more departments in the US are looking
    at this change. It has been very positive for both
    labor and management. Some of the benefits are-

    -Less driving to work, meaning less gas bought,
    meaning less smog in the air and less wear and
    tear on your personal vehicle. And 50% less cars on
    the road.

    -More time for family, school, friends and part-time
    job.

    -Less wear and tear on department vehicles. Apparatus
    is checked out every other day vs. everyday.

    -More body recovery time equals less sick time used.

    -More done in 2 days vs. one 24 hour shift. More time
    for training, reports, inspections, shopping, maintenance,
    projects, etc.

    -Report found less personal vehicle accidents. Less time
    on the road means less driving and insurance rates stay
    down.

    Again, I have 3 great reports and a picture of what the
    schedule looks like. (in color) Email me at-
    brettbouk@yahoo.com for more info.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 04-21-2003 at 02:44 AM.

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    It's very hard to work this schedule when you run calls after midnight. Most departments that use the 2/4 are slower departments where recovery is minimal. Also, overtime is hard to work when working one day means you are in the firehouse for 3 days straight.

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    Default Response...

    OFD- Sorry you dont like the schedule. One of the
    draw backs is the late night calls, BUT the Captain
    or company officer has the flexibility to let his/her
    sleep in.

    As for overtime, the information I have received
    doesnt reflect a problem with it. In fact, sick
    leave goes down and recovery time goes up. And No,
    you do not have to work the 3 days straight unless
    you are forced.

    Pretty much everyone who was against the schedule
    now loves it. More and more people and departments
    are looking at it.

    Also- Do you work for Oakland, CA Fire?

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    Hmm, Interesting, But I'm not sure it would work at our dept. As stated above, this schedule doesn't really jive with a busy dept, and we are a busy dept.

    Sleeping at the firehouse (for me) isn't really rest. You are always aware that you may have to wake up at a moments notice, so its generally hard to get good sleep.

    Taking one run after midnight is a slow day for us, multiple night runs are the norm, no night runs are usually few and far between.

    Four days off in a row would be nice, but my 16month old twins are already wierd around me when I'm gone for 24 hours, and they're really mad at me when I work overtime and am gone for 48 hours. Not sure how they'd be if that was the norm.

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    Default Love it or hate it

    A few departments here in southwest Ohio have gone to the 48/96-hour schedule. The guys/girls doing it love it, but they are departments of the slower variety. My department is not extremely busy overall, but the house I work out of tends to have two to four runs after midnight. That can mean sleeping till noon the next day. With our training and public education schedules, I donít think the guys in our house would be very presentable the second half of a 48 hour shift.

    I personally would love to try it. My wife and two young children would have something entirely different to say about it Iím sure.

    It would be a great life for a single firefighter though!
    Lt3389


    If Prometheus deserved the wrath of the Gods for setting the first fires on earth, then what should be the reward to those who make it their profession to put them out?

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    Default

    The 2 days on/4 days off schedule is great for slower departments, but it would never work in a busy department. There are some nights where we (EMS) leave the station at 2100 and don't even make it back until 0400. We clear up from one call and get sent on another. I can't even imagine trying to do that two nights in a row. We run 24/48, and another nearby department runs 24/72.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    Hello, I have shared some info. in the past on this
    somewhat new schedule. A guy back East recently wrote
    a paper on the benefits/drawbacks of working 2 on
    and 4 off. Please email me for the reports and more
    info.

    So far, more and more departments in the US are looking
    at this change. It has been very positive for both
    labor and management. Some of the benefits are-

    -Less driving to work, meaning less gas bought,
    meaning less smog in the air and less wear and
    tear on your personal vehicle. And 50% less cars on
    the road.

    -More time for family, school, friends and part-time
    job.

    -Less wear and tear on department vehicles. Apparatus
    is checked out every other day vs. everyday.

    -More body recovery time equals less sick time used.

    -More done in 2 days vs. one 24 hour shift. More time
    for training, reports, inspections, shopping, maintenance,
    projects, etc.

    -Report found less personal vehicle accidents. Less time
    on the road means less driving and insurance rates stay
    down.

    Again, I have 3 great reports and a picture of what the
    schedule looks like. (in color) Email me at-
    brettbouk@yahoo.com for more info.
    Our Department went to the 48/96 schedule for a one year trial period and went back to our old schedule (4/4/6). It is very difficult to work OT unless you enjoy working 72's or more. It is very difficult to work a busy house when you are on that schedule, even if you are allowed to rest during the day. If you are running 12 to 18 calls a day, when do you find the time to get a few winks? Answer: not often. The benefits were less transportation costs and it was nice going home for four days after every tour (unless you were working OT).

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    I know a guy who works that schedule and he always says that 48 hours at work is the longest ever. Here in Houston we work 24 on 24 off 24 on 5 days off. However we do what we call a debit day. Where we owe the city one day a month. Then we do our regular work schedule but we work the middle day in our 5 off. It totals out to be 9 days a month. I love this schedule and its the main reason alot of guys come to Houston over some other departments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by station75 View Post
    Our Department went to the 48/96 schedule for a one year trial period and went back to our old schedule (4/4/6). It is very difficult to work OT unless you enjoy working 72's or more. It is very difficult to work a busy house when you are on that schedule, even if you are allowed to rest during the day. If you are running 12 to 18 calls a day, when do you find the time to get a few winks? Answer: not often. The benefits were less transportation costs and it was nice going home for four days after every tour (unless you were working OT).
    How does a 4/4/6 work? Is this three shift system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    How does a 4/4/6 work? Is this three shift system?
    A 4/4/6 schedule is a three platoon 56 hour week. As an example, lets say you start a tour on Monday. You work Monday (24) off Tuesday (24), on Wednesday (24) off Thursday and so on until you've worked four 24 hour shifts in a seven day period. Then you are off for four days. You come back at the end of your four day break and work four out of seven again, this time at the end you have a six day break. Then the cycle repeats, on four, off four, on four, off six. It sounds a bit confusing, but I really like it. It is a great schedule to work OT on.

    Jack

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    Jack- But arent some of your out lying stations (River Battalion) going back to the 49/96?

    I assume because of the travel distrace and less call volume.

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    Talking

    Is today reserection day?

    There are some OLD posts floating around today. And I remember some of those posters
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

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    Quote Originally Posted by station75 View Post
    A 4/4/6 schedule is a three platoon 56 hour week. As an example, lets say you start a tour on Monday. You work Monday (24) off Tuesday (24), on Wednesday (24) off Thursday and so on until you've worked four 24 hour shifts in a seven day period. Then you are off for four days. You come back at the end of your four day break and work four out of seven again, this time at the end you have a six day break. Then the cycle repeats, on four, off four, on four, off six. It sounds a bit confusing, but I really like it. It is a great schedule to work OT on.

    Jack
    You should check with FLSA on this. I think you're getting screwed out of some OT.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    You should check with FLSA on this. I think you're getting screwed out of some OT.
    I beleive it works out just like any other 3 shift 56 hr. average when you work it over the 7 weeks. FLSA requires you to look at 7 weeks for the average then you get paid OT on the hours over 53. So any week where you work more than 53 hours you get a FLSA make-up.

    STATION 75: Thanks for the explanation. Looks interesting. Our guys aren't too interesetd in the 48/96 because they get beat up at night running EMS, so the next day would be rough. On the 4/4/6 - How does this help with working OT? It looks like an OT shift gets you 72 hrs on the clock if you work a shift in the middle? Or is this not allowed? Certainly wouldn't be bad on the 4 or 6 off part.

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    48 / 96 just wouldn't work around here. Medic units running 20+ runs a day, running multiple working fires, it just doesn't make sense.

    How about the 16x8 schedule that the live ins have? 16 on, 8 off, repeat x 365
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    You should check with FLSA on this. I think you're getting screwed out of some OT.

    I didn't get into specifics with my post. We get 3 hours OT each week to comply with FLSA. So actually we are working a 53 hour schedule with 3 hours of built in OT each week.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I beleive it works out just like any other 3 shift 56 hr. average when you work it over the 7 weeks. FLSA requires you to look at 7 weeks for the average then you get paid OT on the hours over 53. So any week where you work more than 53 hours you get a FLSA make-up.

    STATION 75: Thanks for the explanation. Looks interesting. Our guys aren't too interesetd in the 48/96 because they get beat up at night running EMS, so the next day would be rough. On the 4/4/6 - How does this help with working OT? It looks like an OT shift gets you 72 hrs on the clock if you work a shift in the middle? Or is this not allowed? Certainly wouldn't be bad on the 4 or 6 off part.
    You're right about the 72's. I choose not to work a 72, I either do 48's or work in the middle of my breaks. On our Department, we can work up to 100 straight hours without being overworked, requiring us to be off. But during the long wildland season in Southern California every year, we usually end up working past the 100 hours on a regular basis.

    For me the schedule works good because I can choose to just work in the middle of my breaks instead of 72's. When we worked the 48/96 schedule, most of my OT opportunities seemed to end up as 72's.

    Jack

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    Thumbs down 48/96's suck

    We gave it a try, and it was horrible. Oh yes, having a 4 day every time that you are off is nice, but getting your butt kicked on a regular basis isn't worth it.
    I realize that a lot of overtime requires a 48 or a 72, but working 48's every shift for the rest of your career is the pitz.

    L.A. has the best schedule. w/o/w/o/w/o/o/o/o
    Even S.F and San Berdue won't work 48's. San Berdue tried it as well and went back to their schedule that "wasn't broke".

    48/96's are for slow departments. They were started by departments where guys couldn't afford to live in that area and had to commute. That fell by the way side because it just doesn't work.

    Keep in mind, you work for the public, and sleeping in and napping all day on shift 2 doesn't give them the service that they deserve.

    Ever heard of drowsy driving? The second shift is the problem shift where more accidents occur.

    Wives and young kids aren't big on it either.

    Randall

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer123 View Post
    Keep in mind, you work for the public, and sleeping in and napping all day on shift 2 doesn't give them the service that they deserve.
    Consider that the "public" saves in late runs, wash-up, awaiting reliefs...etc by eliminating a change of tours. The service they are paying for is if there is a fire, you will respond promptly and put it out...resting here or there is not cheating anyone out of anything.

    If anything a well rested fireman performs better and experiences less accidents and time loss/injuries.

    This system would never fly here...but if someone wants to do it and it benefits the men...more power to them.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer123 View Post
    Keep in mind, you work for the public, and sleeping in and napping all day on shift 2 doesn't give them the service that they deserve.
    As long as all the "chores" are done, the public safety events are taken care of, and you get up and out for every alarm, what is the difference if you are sleeping at 10am or 10pm?
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by station75
    A 4/4/6 schedule is a three platoon 56 hour week. As an example, lets say you start a tour on Monday. You work Monday (24) off Tuesday (24), on Wednesday (24) off Thursday and so on until you've worked four 24 hour shifts in a seven day period. Then you are off for four days. You come back at the end of your four day break and work four out of seven again, this time at the end you have a six day break. Then the cycle repeats, on four, off four, on four, off six. It sounds a bit confusing, but I really like it. It is a great schedule to work OT on.

    Jack [QUOTE]

    Hey I just may be an idiot but can you post some more info on this schedule, I keep trying to make it and come up a few days short.

    Thanks
    JJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer123 View Post
    San Berdue won't work 48's. San Berdue tried it as well and went back to their schedule that "wasn't broke".

    Please confirm San Berdoo CITY or COUNTY?

    Its my understanding that the city is still on it and likes the schedule.

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    I would like to see the run totals for the cities that have 48/96, I bet they're run totals aren't in the top 50 busiest departments in the US. If half of your calls are after 10pm, and you average 12-13 calls per shift, your gonna hate this schedule. We work 24/48, and I think it works just fine. Some retard here (at a slow station) tried to push this through the union and he got laughed at.

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    [QUOTE=jack61sgfd;816905]Quote:
    Originally Posted by station75
    A 4/4/6 schedule is a three platoon 56 hour week. As an example, lets say you start a tour on Monday. You work Monday (24) off Tuesday (24), on Wednesday (24) off Thursday and so on until you've worked four 24 hour shifts in a seven day period. Then you are off for four days. You come back at the end of your four day break and work four out of seven again, this time at the end you have a six day break. Then the cycle repeats, on four, off four, on four, off six. It sounds a bit confusing, but I really like it. It is a great schedule to work OT on.

    Jack

    Hey I just may be an idiot but can you post some more info on this schedule, I keep trying to make it and come up a few days short.

    Thanks
    JJ

    Here is how it spells out as an example

    SMTWTFS

    ABACACA
    CBCBABA
    BACACBC
    BCBABAC
    ACACBCB
    ABABACA

    It works out to be the same as xooxooxoo or xoxoxoooo or xxoooo
    as far as it's a 3-shift 56 hr. workweek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gallagher4663 View Post
    I would like to see the run totals for the cities that have 48/96, I bet they're run totals aren't in the top 50 busiest departments in the US. If half of your calls are after 10pm, and you average 12-13 calls per shift, your gonna hate this schedule. We work 24/48, and I think it works just fine. Some retard here (at a slow station) tried to push this through the union and he got laughed at.

    Gall- There are some very BIG and busy departments working this schedule- San Bernardino City, Sacramento, Albuquerque, New Mexico, Boise, Idaho, Tulare County and some 40+ other FDs in the US.

    Hey- Its not a "one size fits all" schedule, but more and more FFs and Department like it.

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