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    Default Windshield removal

    Mr. Moore
    Have you ever heard of the Dewalt Circular saw being used for windshield removal inplace of a cip saw or glass-master. The reason why I ask, I just attended a motorsport couse for fire and EMS at Dover International Speedway. They have a mock up of a winston cup stock car that they use for track scenerios involving driver extrication. They have not used it for that purpose yet, because the equipment is new and not sure what tpype of blade to use. The problem they have with cutting the windshield on a stock car is that when they cut the lexan/polycarbonate and tear offs, the material melts and seals back up after the cut.
    The saw sounds like it would work faster that a cip saw and way faster than the Glass-master.

    Barry Laise
    EMT/Firefighter
    Station 54
    Little Creek, De

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    when they cut the lexan/polycarbonate
    If you check out this link to Ron Shaw's website, he has a great article on Polycarbonate Glass

    It discusses the cutting of and the tools to use. There was also an article somewhere and I can't remember where I saw it but it was photos of rescuers (I think TERC???) training in the removal of it....

    Also from the same website is this link to an article about a new protective glass committee....

    Hope this helps in some way
    Luke

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    Also found this link to the Motorsports Fire-Rescue & Safety Crews DISCUSSION FORUM

    They may be able to shed some more light on it also...
    Luke

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    I would be leary of using a circular saw to cut anything on a vehicle as most circular saws have carbide teeth brazed onto the saw plate. If you are cutting something that gets that hot I would be concerned that the brazing could fail and you may wind up with carbide teeth shooting into the passenger compartment. As an alternative you could try an spring set saw blade which doesn't have carbide teeth, it has every other tooth bent opposite to create the kerf. Usually these blades are quite cheap quality and will not hold an edge very long.

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    My department uses an axe to cut a perimeter around then windshield, then we carefully lift out the glass and place it on the hood of the car. We do this becuase we do not have a glass cutting saw. It doesn't take very long, and is quite safe for everyone involved.
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    Nutty,Carbides are brazed into the blade.Should not be a issue with heat in cutting lexan but hit metal things and it will shuck them out pretty quick.1219,review the article.Blaise is talking about cutting LEXAN which can be a bit bothersome with an axe or put nicely an interesting exercise in futility.A Zip tool (mini router) works the balls,if not available,a 'cip saw with a rather rank blade should work ok and the circular,albeit slow, should work on lexan as long a you keep it away from people parts.Get ready 'cause this stuff will be hitting the Nations highways soon.T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 05-10-2003 at 04:05 PM.

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    If you all went to the attched website (Thanks LUKE) It showed the Test results for the following tools that seemed to work best during the test that some TERC reps. performed at the plant. I think they are worth mentioning here too in case individuals don't read that good article.

    Just curious how many folks carry (currently) the any or all of the "Effective" tools listed. Nowadays most of you carry the recip-saw blades.

    Effective:
    Router tip; single straight flouted cutter
    Router tip; double straight fluted cutter
    Spiral carbide cutter
    5" Starrett hole saw

    Somewhat effective:
    Reciprocating saw with various blades

    Ineffective:
    Circular saw with carbide blades
    Jig saw with various blades
    5 inch grinder with 4.5 dry diamond blade
    Pneumatic air hammer with various cutting tips
    Pry-axe
    Windshield saw with standard stock blade
    Spring loaded center punch
    CO2 & hammer

    Totally Ineffective:
    Excaliber glass cutter

    Be Safe, JW
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    Not knowing what gauge lexan the TERC crew was playing with,I can't totally disagree with the findings.In playing with the material here and there I have found that a circular saw with a plywood(finer tooth count)blade did a respectable job of cutting Stock car weight Lexan.On thicker stock maybe not.Plastics of any type can be somewhat tricky to cut,different blades and tooth counts are more effective than others depending on tool type,power,and stroke.With what I've got available it's gonna come out with a 'cip saw.T.C.

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    On a regular windshield I would be very careful of the glass dust that the saw would make. Remember the speed & action of the saw blade.I would think the dust would harm the pt's or the F/F's doing the job. I would want both Pt's & Rescuers to wear masks on top of all other PPE.

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    Question

    Again,we're discussing Lexan here not conventional glass.We routinely cut glass windshields with a 'cip saw,all the rules on glass dust apply.You'll get dust even with a Glasmaster so precautions are always necessary and taken.LEXAN takes a different approach and is resistant to conventional methods so we need to start the adapting process.I think most who post here are reasonably adept at removing conventional glass.T.C.

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    The Saw-Saw work's good for Windshild removal and also the Axe
    we had a Extrication the outher day and we had 3 firefighters show up
    so we covered the lady up and cut the windshield out saw-saw dose it all. and for a Stock car the saw-saw would maybe work also. maybe

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    ccvfd - Once again, please re-read the thread. The discussion is about cutting LEXAN, which is much different than standard windshield glass.

    I have no idea what a SAW-SAW is....... Is it like a glassmaster?????

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    i'm sorry--- but what we call a Saw-Saw is a Reciprocating Saw
    amd yes we have used one on lexan-- we have a race track near us were we have had to pull drivers out of there car. not like nascar or the NHRA. just little stuff but some use lexan

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    I have absolutely no experiance with Lexan, so correct me if I am worng. It seems to me that it is like plexiglass. If so there is a certain way you would have to use a circular saw and a very easy way to do it.

    You could use a plywood blade turned around backwards. If you put it on the correct way then the teeth will grab and throw pieces of the windshield everywhere. Turned the other way they cut through plastics such as plexiglass very easily.
    Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

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    OK I am confused....When ya'll say router you are talking about a regular wood working router with a single or double blade spindle?

    Recip saw I am sure would work well but am a little confused on how to start the cut if the glass is more or less puncture resistant. Would you peel up the edge of glass, simply cut thru the A-Post enroute to the glass (either windshield or sidewindow)? Will the stregnth of the glass eventually lead to weakening of ABC post due to the Lexan abilty to re-enforce more effeciently than glass/safety glass(several years down the road as glass tech improves)?

    Stay Safe

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    Thumbs up

    Circ. saws are probably the quickest and most effective way to take any windshield.
    I am an instructor of Extrication and have used "almost" every tool out there for auto extrication.
    As for the LEXAN windshields, yes, they will melt back together if not kept separated while cut is being made either a wedge or just simply slight pressure placed on the side of the cut that will be removed will sufice.
    The circ. saw that I prefer is the Milwaukee, 18 volt, 6.5" with carbide tip blade. This enables you to cut through the hood to get to the battery (if located in engine compartment), move to the windshield, ect...
    Yes, on laminated glass windshields you do get "dust" however I've found that covering the patient prior to any extrication operations with a rescue blanket will reduce the risk of further injury. Plus, the Milwaukee circ.saw has a shroud that completely covers the blade except where the blade meets the glass.

    I am also a proponent of the Powerhawk Rescue System.
    www.powerhawk.com

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    Well I'm in agreement that the circular works OK on most Lexan,although I prefer a "fine"tooth count to minimize "rewelding" on the cut.I would have to say I'm NOT in agreement on the Powerhawk.Not a bad tool,but the severity of the crashes we have in our area,I prefer a system that allows multi-tool operation over a extended period of time.Electric (12V)tools are not particularly effective or long lived in this application.T.C.

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    I not only train with the Powerhawk I sell it. I did a demontration in Centervillage, Conn. a couple of weeks ago. We had three cars and the Chief of the department wanted all of his guys (and Girls) to get their hands on the tool and try it. We cut continuously for 2 1/2 hours on one charge on one battery. Not only that but wherever you have a 12 volt power supply you can use the tool. (ie: the battery of the car your working on (if still intact), or even your apparatus)

    Yes it does have a some downfalls. The spreading distance on the spreader attachment is only 14" but if trained properly you can gain entry faster than a hydraulic system. There's little to no maintainance. No high pressure lines no hazardous materials to deal with or worry about. It can be used in an O2 depleted environment. And one person can take it wherever it needs to go. It doesn't take one person to carry the tool, one for the lines and another for the hydralic pump.

    The Powerhawk isn't marketed to be a "primary" extrication tool. But the more departments use it the more they are using it as their primary tool.

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    Sfd,I'm quite familiar with the Powerhawk.Best I ever could do with one is 1.5 to 2 complete cars on a charge.I've got acess to a couple tools,gas powered, that I can lug the whole set up easily and work extended on a tank of gas.Please understand that I operate in a rural area with heavy truck traffic that occasionally produces spectacular crashes.For our regular Ops.,the 'hawk is not the tool for me.I would question if you could truly acess a door quicker than I could with the Hyd.I do know one thing for fact,once I do get a purchase on the door I can go 34"in one push; not possible with the'hawk.As far as ops. in O2 deficient atmospheres we have sufficent hose to be able to handle anything that has been thrown at us yet.Again specific tools for specfic jobs,but the little guy isn't listed on my list of preferred tools for my response area.For what it's worth all my 'cip saws are corded too.Too many times someone "forgets" to charge/check the batteries.If the 'lil blue ox works for you,Great!But my needs are industrial strength and so are my weapons.I don't represent any Mfg. but I'm well versed in Heavy Rescue Operations with considerable time in almost all brands of rescue tools including the one shot power cutters.T.C.

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