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    Default Aftermath of Projo article?

    Even though I put the projo article up on the main board for discussion, I wanted to put something up seperate in here for a specific discussion. Namely, given the quotes cited in the article and their sources along with the general tone of the piece, do you think it helps, hurts, or does nothing to the goal of increased apparatus staffing in RI?

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    I was in Cape Cod all weekend and was shocked when I came home and picked up the Sunday Journal. I knew that would become a topic but I never figured it would be plastered across the front page like it was. Do I think it will help? Absolutely not. Have you been watching the neighborhood reactions of the firehouse closings in NYC? The residents will do anything to keep the firehouses open. If a mayor in this area closes a firehouse, the residents think he is a hero for saving them 7 cents on their taxes. The people here have no clue. Maybe it is the FD's fault for not educating them enough, maybe it's because we don't have fires every day or maybe because they are just ignorant. People could care less about fire protection because they all feel they will never need it.
    Remember when Matt from the Atlanta Fire Department rescued that guy off of a crane by lowering himself from a helicopter? The next day he was on all of the morning shows telling the nation how the AFD was working without a contract and it was time they got one. Imagine, the next day the union and the city came to an agreement. The WWFD is under a gag order and I respect that. I do think that they are hurting themselves by not speaking out. I don't think that the financial climate in the state will allow anyone to see an increase in manpower or anything else. We will all be very lucky to keep what we have. I have taken between a $5,000-10000 pay cut over the last few years but yet my taxes keep going up. I am taking the hit both ways. It kind of sucks to live in the city that you work for in that regard. Every time that I go to City Hall to pay my taxes, I feel I am paying my own salary.

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    Default what's wrong with...

    ...volunteers??? i recently moved back to ri from nc. i am ff I & II certified and as far as i've been told, my ff certs are recognized here. the area i live in is not hiring, which is pretty much true throughout the state. so why not use volunteer's not as a replacement, but as a supplement. yes, i understand there would still be a cost issue but it would still be cheaper than hiring more desparetly needed firefighters.

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    Without getting into the usual career/volly argument that occurs on these forums, it has been proven time and again that with very few exceptions, the two can't peacefully coexist in this state. Towns like the one that you live in used to rely on volunteers and call people. The reason that many of the departments are now all full time is that the vollies and call people stopped showing up. NP went all full time around 1988, Johnston 1992 or there abouts. Even towns like Coventry and Scituate are having trouble with the volunteers showing up and have either hired or will be hiring full time people.

    Does your name mean that you are a SCUBA diver and if so, do you know anyone looking to buy a set of SCUBA gear that is about three years old and in great shape?
    Last edited by cfdeng3; 05-19-2003 at 08:37 PM.

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    i'm not trying to start one of those full vs vol debates. and yes i remember north providence being vol/call...i was a jr ff at marieville at age 16. i understand that a completely volunteer station leaves a lot to be desired because volunteers are just what they are....volunteers - ppl who go to help WHEN and IF they can. my station in nc was mixed and we had awesome response from the volunteers. the theory works if you let it. and remember, i stated that volunteer's would augment or supplement the paid full time crews,
    not replace them in any way shape or form.

    oh, and my wife is rescue-diver certified...so i'm diver's guy. and not right now with the equip but thanks...if i hear something i'll pass it on to ya

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    Supplementing career firefighters with vollies in an established career dept. is jeopardizing our jobs. I am on NPFD and we have a hard time justifying our existence to the town let alone allowing vollies to supplement us. The days of the call system are dead, let them rest in peace. Most guys have left that behind them. I too remember those days, but they are gone. I am not bashing vollies I am one myself in an ALL volly town. Combination is a recipe for disaster.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    Unhappy

    well i'm not going to let it go happily but i'll let it go believe me, i wasn't trying to start any arguements and i apologize if i have. i guess i'll keep checking the ads for future hirings and playing my puter game to keep my training up (lol). i just wish there were something i could do to help so if you have any ideas...let me know. btw - my cousin is on NPFD at sta 4.

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    DiversGuy- I am not angry or arguing, but if you have seen the paper lately we are not exactly portrayed in the best light. No hard feelings at all. E-mail me at puffy2334@cs.com , I might be able to help you out in your quest. BTW, who's your cousin??
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    DiversGuy- I just figured it out! I met you last summer at Station 4. I was on your cousin's group on the rescue, he is the Lt. on E-4 on C- Group. E-mail me!
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    I was born and raised in Cranston in view if the station at Warwick and Park. I moved out of RI in 96 and will never go back. Don't get me wrong, I love the beach, shops, culture... but the state/city set ups are a rackett! Out here in Ohio, there are a lot of depts. w/ Full & paid on call, as well as some P & vol. Why does it work? Different cultural attitude. We still have block parties and community get togethers on a regular basis. We all vol w/ several organizations (Boy scouts, Lions, etc..) Out there... quite frankly the firehouses are a "closed community". When it snowes, do you go and shovel out that poor old ladies sidewalk across from your station? Talk about good PR! But NO, it isn't in the contract. The union FFs out here are not the closed minded, and for the most part, selfish group the FFs in my beloved hometown are. Please, I know there are exceptions. But in general, I challenge you IAFF folk to look at the way you work the community, and more important, how the community looks at you. OUTREACH is the most important thing you have. I never felt or saw it when I was there, but it flows with love and pride here. Jason

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    Please, I would love to know how all of us firefighters in your beloved home town are so selfish. Is it because there are no more volunteers or that you could never get hired? If you guys get the warm and fuzzies because you shoveled the neighbors yard than good for you. Every time it snows we are out shoveling hydrants. Just off the top of my head, we will install smoke detectors when requested, have Halloween parties for all of the kids, we raise money for MDA, we visit all of the schools and have tours of kids coming through the station, set up booths at local fairs for fire education and BP's. Since you have left, there are close to sixty Haz-Mat techs on the job. We all took the 40 hour class on our own time and at our own expense. Even with all of the problems in the city, the taxpayers approved all of the bonds for the FD. Please, enlighten me.

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    No vollies...Not get hired... Where did that come in? Oh.. its an attack on me. Thanks for proving my point. It's the attitude. Bad. Did I attack you? My point was you need to hit the PEOPLE not just the causes. Go and meet each person on your firehouse block. Thanks for showing you have that attitude to which I hinted. Did I attack you? Did I say union FFs are bad? Quiet contrary,oh rude one. I pointed out that the culture you have generated out there is your own weakness. It's like listening to a rerun of Goodfellows. "You talkin' to me?" What is all the anger and sour grapes from. It was like that when I lived out there. Go to FDIC west and the go to Indi. See a difference? You bet. And hey, I payed for my tech too, from Cleveland state and had to use vacation days just like you. Hired...Industrial... and it's the same standards. So I'm not some Vollie vs Paid... I do both.

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    Did you attack me? Maybe closed minded and selfish mean something different to you but to me that is an insult. I have attended the FDIC and have been to the Firehouse Expo every year since 1992, what does that have to do with anything? What does the culture that we have generated is our weakness mean? The engine I'm on did 3,500 runs last year. That is 3,500 times we interacted with the residents of my district. We get a good number of letters from the public thanking us for everything that we do and I haven't seen any complaints.

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    Wasn't supposed to be read as an attack. Sorry about the bad blood. I've no doubt about your, or any CFD skills. I've seen you guys work. One of the reasons why I decided to look into it after I moved here. I'll retract selfish as a very missused work. Sorry about that. I'll stand by closed minded. There is a definate Us vs Them compared to out here. In talking to the guys here, if been given some insite. The politics are different. Sure, we've got it here. But it's cutthroat in RI. Almost like NY city. 3500? That's up. How many from the Boo Boo buggy? Look, I'm just saying, start to look outside the box that has been created. Don't look at it as just a job. I know not all do, but you have to make a customer approach at all times with all staff.

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    Wasn't supposed to be read as an attack. Sorry about the bad blood. I've no doubt about your, or any CFD skills. I've seen you guys work. One of the reasons why I decided to look into it after I moved here. I'll retract selfish as a very missused work. Sorry about that. I'll stand by closed minded. There is a definate Us vs Them compared to out here. In talking to the guys here, if been given some insite. The politics are different. Sure, we've got it here. But it's cutthroat in RI. Almost like NY city. 3500? That's up. How many from the Boo Boo buggy? Look, I'm just saying, start to look outside the box that has been created. Don't look at it as just a job. I know not all do, but you have to make a customer approach at all times with all staff.

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