1. #1
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Duluth
    Posts
    1

    Default extrication tools compatability

    looking for info from anybody about using holmatro tools with an amkus power source. do you only need to have different connectors or new system.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Glen Rock, Pa
    Posts
    126

    Default

    I wouldn't and I am sure that both Holmatro and Amkus will tell you the same. There are 3 major concerns around the word "compatable" Presure, fluid and couplings. You have 2 out of the 3. I may be wrong but I do not think the couplings match up, however this is easily overcome with a pair of wrenchs and a coupling swap. May I ask why you are inquiring about this? So many times we hear where a new tool purchase was made "Because XYZ FD down the road uses this brand so we must be compatable" That has to be the worst reason to buy a specfic tool. Think about it, I know we must couple hoses to fight fires, but if you are assisting me we each brought a squad full of toys. If we have that much of a wreck that we need all of them we are probably spread out also. Ex: You take the red one here and I'll get the blue one way over there. Plus, how do I know the maintance on your equipment, do I really want your oil in my tool? Compatability is way overblown when it comes to hydro tools.

    Zmag

  3. #3
    FIGJAM
    lutan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    I come from The Land Down Under!
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Check with your Holmatro rep- don't make any modifications to any tool without the manufacturers perspective.

    As Zmag said, there's big issues with compatability in pressure, etc.
    Luke

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Everyone has pointed out the critical concerns. Fluid and connections are the big ones here. Both Holmatro and Amkus are high pressure tools within reasonable tolerance of each other. Without knowing why you are doing this, I am not sure where to point you. My guess is that either an Amkus or a Holmotro sales representative has made you an offer that looks too good to refuse. Assuming that is the case, you will want to work very closely with that reprersentative to see what their stand will be if any damage occurs to the off-brand component. As lutan pointed out, any changes you make without the blessing of the company that made that component, will likely void any warranty and release that company from any liability should a failure occur.

    Around here, there are a few departments who have upgraded to a Phoenix power unit while using a Hurst tool. This being done because there was a local Phoenix sales rep. at the time and the price was right. This required a replacement of fluid types and switching all gaskets in the tool to make it compatible. It is my understanding that since the Hurst and Phoenix are so similar, there really was no issues concerning the Phoenix folk doing repairs on the Hurst tools.

    I also believe that TNT and CHAMPION tools market themselves as being able to sell you a tool that would be compatable with your current system. Again, if you were to go with one of them, you would want to be sure that SOMEONE would be willing to fix your tools and stand behind the "marriage" so to speak.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  5. #5
    Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    18

    Default Compatibility

    I know that TNT and amkus are compatible. When we bought our set of TNT's our neighbor down the road has a set of amkus and our rep said that our tools would run of the amkus system no prob. He said the waruantee would still be good too. If I am not mistaken, Amkus makes TNT and Amkus buts their handle on top of the tool while TNT has their handle on the back. Now I don't know if Amkus will waruantee ( can't spell that word right for nothing) their tools if used on a TNT system.
    A few serving a great many. Thats our job and it's not for the money.

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Glen Rock, Pa
    Posts
    126

    Default

    Negative, TNT is made by TNT in Ashippun Wi. USA, been there, saw them. Way back when TNT's parent company made pumps for Amkus, but that no longer happens.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,767

    Default

    Their are a lot of players in the hydraulic rescue tool game. Compatability is the new buzz word in the industry. If you have Hurst, Amkus, Genesis, Holmatro, Nike, Libervit, Champion, TNT, Phoenix or who ever you can probably find components that are interchangable, In an emergency fluids can even be mixed, your tool will even work with water as the fluid. Sure the tool would have to be serviced after, but it can work.
    The next NFPA standard update is considering compatability as a requirement.
    Many of the tool makers make pumps in both pressures (5500 and 10500) already.
    As stated before the gaskets may have to be changed but a service tech can do that work for you.
    On the other hand most makers have the same stuff, so their is also an argument for just picking one brand.

    If you see a tool or power unit that you can't live without do some homework and you'll probably be able to use it with your system.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Between here and there
    Posts
    71

    Default

    The whole concept of compatibility is a sales game that was started by someone who couldn't sell tools. Its a way to get your product into the fire department. Just because he tells you the tool he sells is compatible doesn't mean the other manufacturer will. What happens when the tool or power breaks or it damages the other manufacturers tools- Who's responsible ??? God forbid someone gets hurt, who's liable ???

    As for NFPA considering compatibilty, it will never happen. How can you test tools as a system, then introduce a different brand of tool into your system.

    As a last choice option, you may have to utilize a different brand tool, but not for day to day operations. How many out there use MSA masks with Scott airpacks - NONE I hope.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,767

    Default

    Just as one example of compatability here is a product from res q tek
    The ResQ NT Q Cutter is a small, compact cutter with a semi-remote thumb-control and a head which articulates 180 degrees. This cutter is great for those tight, hard-to-reach, places and is perfect for seat frames and pedals. The Q-cutter was designed to reach within confined spaces to the same extent one would be able to reach with your fist. This tool can also be ordered to operate on ANY hydraulic pressure system.
    http://www.resqtekinc.com/
    You can say what you want about liability but when the manufacturer tells you their product can be set up to work with any other manufacturer they have taken the liability off of you. Hydraulic tools are very simple their isn't much to them. If the pressure is right and the fluids the same or compatable anyone's tool will work on a system. Do you use DeWalt blades exclusively on your Dewalt saw? Do you run a Warthog blade on your K 1400? Are your hose reels built by Hannay or is it built by the tool maker?
    A great number of things we use are compatable with other things.

    "As for NFPA considering compatibilty, it will never happen."

    Have you seen the new 1981? the emergency hose has to be the same. Now someone in a MSA can give my Scott air. It happened in that case and will probably happen again.

  10. #10
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Beersville New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    16

    Default

    We have a phonex Pump and combo tool .We bought a cutter from TNT
    It is guaranteed for life with proper maintance .Thay are compatable
    with all types of hyd rescue tools .We told them what we wanted and
    thay sent us the right fittings .The cutter works good .

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Portland, PA, USA
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote:
    How many out there use MSA masks with Scott airpacks - NONE I hope.


    Maybe not, but...

    Ever use a Scott SCBA cylinder on a MSA SCBA? Same pressures, same fitting....
    James Steele
    First Assistant Chief
    Portland Hook & Ladder Co. #1
    Portland , PA

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    rmoore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    819

    Default

    Besides the obvious sales/promotional interest in a vendor pushing tool compatibility to sell a new tool into a department with a different brand of equipment, I often hear another reason. "Well, if you're ever out on a scene and your tool fails or if you need more hydraulic power equipment at a big rescue scene, everything that you have will work on your neighbor's system and vice versa."

    Does this really happen? Pretend that you have Brand X and the neighboring department has Brand Y. And let's say that for some technical reason, X and Y do physically work together; they are system compatible.

    Now, you're at a bad wreck and something has gone wrong with a component of your system. The cutter blade broke. The power plant caught fire and burned up. Your spreader is malfunctioning. Do you call the department with Brand Y extrication equipment for mutual aid and then just take their cutter and hook it up to your power plant?

    Do you get out their power plant when they pull up on scene and hook it up to your spreader?

    Or as I suspect, is compatibility over-rated when emergency scene mutual aid applications are considered? In this same situation, does the mutual aid company typically use their system to rescue the patient separately from the host department's system?

    Isn't it that the two systems at the scene, under emerency situations, just don't normally mix even though they technically and physically could?
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  13. #13
    FIGJAM
    lutan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    I come from The Land Down Under!
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Well said Ron!

    Every call I've been to with a mutual aid, both rescue teams have worked pretty much independant of each other. In most cases, it's been a rescue crew working on independant wrecks and casualties, not all on the same car...
    Luke

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    NB87JW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    196

    Default

    Why would you want to do this mswanny? As many aleady stated, sure you CAN intermix the tools on some units. But, whats the purpose? Is it safest to do that? Probably not. There are too many variables that come in to play when altering recommended uses for tools. Ron's scenario is a perfect example of the question. WHY? Were you just wondering "curious" or were you intending on making an application. I am curious...

    Be safe,

    Fraternally, Jordan
    "Making Sense with Common Sense"
    Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
    ( MVRC@comcast.net) Jordan Sr.

  15. #15
    IACOJ Agitator
    Adze39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    In a van down by the CT River!
    Posts
    2,771

    Default

    I don't know about Holmatro/Amkus but I know Amkus and Lukus are interchangeable.
    IACOJ Agitator
    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register