1. #1
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    Default NFPA's idea about extrication gloves

    Received a question about gloves and the NFPA so I'd thought I'd share my reply. Any additional comments are welcome...

    QUESTION: The chief of my fire department just put a directive out banning the wearing of any kind of gloves at accident scenes except for our firefighting gloves. He said it was because they were the only N.F.P.A. approved glove and was not opening himself up to any lawsuits. Are there any other compliant gloves that give you more dexterity for extrication use? Do your hands have to meet N.F.P.A. compliance at accident scenes? If you could give me any answers or point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it.

    REPLY: Unfortunately, your Chief is justified in requiring NFPA-compliant gloves for extrication scenes. There are several references within the NFPA standards regarding glove use during extrication and EMS activities.

    NFPA 1500, Standard on Fire Department Occupational Safety and Health Program, mentions the requirement for gloves when firefighters are working near sharp objects in paragraph 5-5.5:

    5-5.5
    The fire department shall provide gloves that meet the requirements of NFPA 1971, Standard on Protective Ensemble for Structural Fire Fighting, during operations where sharp or rough edges are likely to be encountered during emergency medical care operations.

    NFPA 1581, Standard on Fire Department Infection Control Program, states the same thing, leaving little doubt about what type of glove NFPA desires extrication personnel to wear. It even includes the word 'extrication' in the Standard.

    NFPA 1581, 5-2.8
    Structural fire-fighting gloves shall be worn by members in any situation where sharp or rough surfaces or a potentially high heat exposure is likely to be encountered, such as patient extrication.

    Until manufacturers such as Ringers Glove can create a structural firefighting-compliant extrication glove that meets the NFPA 1971 Standard and remains flexible and good-fitting, your Chief is justified in requiring structural gloves for rescue. It's not the easiest glove to wear and the current models of extrication gloves are all much better fit, but if you are complying with the Standard, then structural is the only type of glove that complies.

    Ron Moore, Batt Chief/Training Officer
    McKinney(TX) Fire Department
    214-578-3405
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

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    Ron, what's your opinion on the gloves offered by Howell Rescue?? Do they put you in the category of NFPA compliance?
    A quote from their website "The HRS Rescue/Extrication gloves meet NFPA spec. for cut resistance for a firefighting glove. Plastic beading spots for gripping, leather strip on back for knuckle protection."
    I've been using a pair of them for about year and am very pleased so far.

    http://www.rescuetoolman.com/xcart/c...9bb4cae5dc4be6

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    Seems to be another case of bureaucracy not keeping up with technology!

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    Kevinw,
    I checked out the link to the glove you mentioned. Looks like they have just beefed up a fire glove to be a little more suitable to extrication. Before purchasing the glove, look at a pair and look for the NFPA 1971 label. If it is there, then it meets or exceeds the standard.

    Thanks for the info as well!
    Tell me, I will forget. Show me, I will remember. Involve me, I will understand.

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    It's the Chief's perogative to decide to play things safe and not adopt new technologies or ideas not "standardized."

    Unfortunately, if we all fall into the "it's not up to standards!" all innovation will stop. NFPA doesn't have an R&D budget. If individuals do not take a thoughtful, reasoned approach and say, "Hey, let's see how this works..." NFPA standards would soon stagnate, since there'd be nothing new being done...since doing something new means you're not following a standard.

    It's not to say that stuff should just be winged off the seat of your pants. But it's perfectly acceptable to say, "We're cognizant of the standard, we understand it, and we've chosen to vary from it to this because x, y, and z." If you do your homework, think it through, and if you can talk with others with similiar experience (and that might mean someone in industry if it's not something usually used in the fire service) you're usually able to act in a pretty safe manner and try new ways.

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    QUESTION: What are the substantial difference between Structural rescue (USAR stuff) and vehicle rescue? Can't USAR workers be exposed to flash fires too? But somehow USAR has a different standard. NFPA is a standard developed by concessus of those on the committee, a lot of the time that committee is dominated by manufactures. I know that there are a lot of good Extrication Gurus that stand by the standard, But I am also concerned about heat stress (both long term and short term) If the USAR group can and does have a different standard, why can't we (I know we do) I guess more to my point can someone explain the substantial differences that require a different level of protect for USAR versus Auto mobile extricators?
    Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
    Carl D. Avery

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    Do the NFPA standards require structural turnout gear as well at extrication incidents, or is it just the gloves? I've been trying to find it in the standards myself, but so far have come up empty.
    TW
    Essex Junction Fire Dept.
    Vermont

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    I'm not sure about the NFPA standards on wearing full bunker gear. I'm willing to bet that if the standard on protective ensamble is anything like their stance on gloves, it'll say you have to wear full bunkers. My personal opinion is that a jumpsuit is fine as long as it is suited for extrication work. I don't agree with the NFPA's rule on this though, and personally don't know of a department that follows it. If you take a look at all the NFPA standards, and look at the departments that claim to be compliant, I'm sure you can find one or two areas where they aren't. A neighboring department won't let members use borks(sp?) on their helmets, only the standard faceshields, because borks aren't NFPA compliant. Though that same department uses extrication gloves, not fire gloves, for any rescue work. Maybe they figure it's the lesser of two evils. Well, this is only my opinion anyway, I could be wrong.

    Stay safe brothers,

    Matt

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    Originally posted by Armyfirerescue
    A neighboring department won't let members use borks(sp?) on their helmets, only the standard faceshields, because borks aren't NFPA compliant.
    yes, but remember, faceshields aren't NFPA compliant either. they are only to be used as secondary eye protection, not primary.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

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    Default Chiba FlameFighter

    How about the Chiba FlameFighter? I've tried them on, and are very close to giving the dexterity of extrication gloves, and are NFPA 1971.

    Also, I have seen some gloves that are NFPA 2001. Is that the standard, or is NFPA 1971 still good?


    Chiba FlameFighter - http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...ication_glove/

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    Pro-Tech structure gloves make great gloves for extrication. Very flexible, lots of dexterity.

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    We use Tempos at my department. I haven't come across structural gloves that have as much dexterity as those.

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    NFPA certified gloves do not have to be worn on extrication scenes to keep anyone from filing a lawsuit. They also don't like jumpsuits either, but that's what I wear (in most cases). I know fires can be unpredictable, but we all know when there is or is not a vehicle fire. If I feel it necessary, I will throw on bunkers. I do not let NFPA dictate my actions on scene.

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    Again, I ask, do you read the forum Ron? This was all discussed back in June. Another dead horse being hammered upon.
    It has been a while since the last new topic, are you just trying to get discussions started?

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=80531

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    Well, HRT, its not like this forum is busting at the seams with great extrication discussion. Seriously... ff's all across the country and it comes down to a post or so a day. When thats the case, your gonna have your "what gloves do you like best" or "who makes the best tools" threads. It seems like this forum invites some pretty off the wall discussion. I scratch my head everytime I check this forum and wonder why smaller departments arent asking reasonable questions. I wonder why any departments arent engaging in realistic, bread and butter banter. Theres my 2 cents. Ring the bell, here come the rants.......
    Last edited by StealthFF; 08-11-2007 at 12:17 AM.

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