1. #1
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    Post Interesting FH Poll: LDH

    The current Firehouse poll asks what size supply lines are used in your department. I find it interesting that almost 75% of the 6700+ respondants indicated that they use 4" or 5" LDH.

    Was it only 10 or 15 years ago that LDH was "new"? Time flies.

    Of course it's not a scientific poll, so it might be that FH.com readers are more progressive, or someone just likes to vote an awful lot. . .
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    We are in the process of going to 4" LDH..it will sure beat laying dual 3's!
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    we use 5" ldh it is like bringin the plug right to the truck. it is great even in low pressure areas like we all have in one part or another.

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    Thumbs up

    We've been using 5 in for over 25 years, keep a couple of things in mind.
    Even though you can get a lot of water through it, that amount is still limited, don't be lulled into ALWAYS doing forward lays. There are times where you still need to reverse, or to pump from the hydrant.
    Don't get rid of all of the 3inch, you'll still need it for pumping certain fire dept connections at higher pressures than you can supply with the ldh.
    You'll love the ldh.

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    The only thing I don't like about 5" is REBEDDING THE S#IT!!!!

    Get storz fittings, and the forward-reverse lay thing goes away (as long as you kept some of that 3" for some sort of a skid load!).

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    Imagine 15 years ago....laying down that big yellow LDH with those huge couplings......and having guys riding the back step, dodging the hose as it comes off!! The couplings could kill ya!

    Now that was excitement! My voice is an octave higher.
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    Was it only 10 or 15 years ago that LDH was "new"? Time flies.

    Try more like 30 years ago for 4" & 5".

    Single jacket 3.5" goes well back into the 40s.

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    Our Dept. was one of the first to adopt the LDH in this area,we use 4"with storz and have never looked back.

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    Question Right..................

    Many stations have more LDH than our entire county. We have 47 stations and 6 of them have 4 or 5 inch hose. Truth is, a big majority of us simply don't like it. We use pumpers on hydrants that are supplying pumpers on the fireground, large mains with lots of water at good to excellent pressures, close hydrant spacing, and many other factors that figure in our water supply operations. (along with LDH, hydrant valves such as the humat, are extremely unpopular) We have no problems with our operations running out of water AS LONG AS IT IS WITHIN REACH which is 99.95% of the time. (A rural area, with tanker coverage is the .05%) We do, however have a water supply company (with LDH) dispatched on every second alarm. We have an average of a couple of multiple alarms per month, and I can't remember the last time a second alarm was struck because of a lack of water. One example is a hydrant that we use several times a year, last time we used it, we started at 125 psi, reached 2410 gpm, and the residual pressure had dropped to 95 psi. We think we have a good system, and it works well for us. I think that the biggest reason for the anti LDH sentiment is many of our engines put a line in the street several times each day (Good SOPs) and, as has been pointed out above, LDH is a pain to take up. One humorous thing has come from Storz couplings though, our latest "pick on the rookie" trick is to send the probie to another station to borrow a Storz double male fitting. Stay Safe....
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    originally posted by hwoods
    ... we started at 125 psi, reached 2410 gpm, and the residual pressure had dropped to 95 psi.



    What I wouldn't do to have one or two of those in my district!!!!! I am insanely jealous. With water like that, who needs LDH!?!?!
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    Talking Jaybird!!

    Your hydrant is in the mail.......
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    hwoods,

    Hating to pack LDH isn’t much of a good excuse either, we have used LDH for some time and can pack almost as fast as 3”, just takes practice. Granted, it does take more man power to do it effectively and if you are running small crews it would be a lot less fun. Like you, we have plenty of hydrants and lots of pressure (although we still pump the hydrant) but its nice to have one supply line down the street.

    A New Haven crusty gave me another reason to not use LDH, small streets. In his city LDH would make it very hard to get all the equipment in because LDH is impossible to move once its full and driving over it would be a bitch (even with ramps). He said that they use dual 3”.

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    and, as has been pointed out above, LDH is a pain to take up.

    With dual 3's, what's fun about picking up the same amount of hose twice?

    Also hwoods, not at all a criticism just an honest question- if your spacing flow and pressure are as good as the example you give, why handcuff an engine to the hydrant?

    A mid-sized urban city near me uses dual 3", and normally it works pretty well for them. Last major mill fire they had though, the exposures (other than friends of mine whose tshirts were starting to smoke from the radiant heat :roll eyes: ) were saved by a 5" line dropped by a mutual aid department. (And that info comes from a 3" supporter.)
    Last edited by CollegeBuff; 07-11-2003 at 03:44 PM.

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    LDH too much work to repack? Call me lazy, but I like to pick up and pack as little hose as possible. Just a few weeks ago, 3 guys picked up 800' of 5" in about 20 minutes. Does not always work, but something you can try. Disconnect it from hydrant and let it lay on ground. Driver drives with the hose between the wheels, from where the truck stopped back to where it started lay. As you go over the hose, 1 guy lifts it and the other guy packs it. Just move slowly to let the water drain on it's own. Might take a few tries for practice, but it works very well, no water, no air. We do this often. Again, won't always work, but lots of times it does.

    And I agree with CollegeBuff, why drop twice as much to be picked up?

    Just some comments...

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    Smile Points noted...........

    I didn't mention the part about access, but, although we're not like older cities, particularly in the Northeast, quite often later arriving units need to cross over charged lines in the street. As someone much brighter than I am once said, "The aerial ladder has to be within reach of the building, the pumper does not". Our station locations and apparatus assignments are such that several engines can be working as a Ladder truck arrives and seeks a good position. Engine drivers are very good about leaving room for the trucks, but lines have to be charged ASAP sometimes, and that's where the problem would be. Another thing about our area is a total lack of the old New England Mill type of structure. We have our malls, big box stores, and some other large buildings, but not the fire load magnitude of older cities. Thanks for the feedback. Stay Safe....
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    I dunno chief- those garden apartments of yours burn awful purty. LOL. To each his own, as long as it works for the department and the community. Square pegs rarely fit round holes!

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    Question Why 4 over 5?

    CaptainGonzo.....why did you chose 4" over 5". In my area there is only one (1) department that has 4" and they are die hard. Not bashign the decision...just wondering the logic?
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    We just purchased our first 4" supply line last year and we will never go back. What a difference! We can now get well over 100psi at the pump with the engine at idle, and our operating rpm's are much lower than they used to be. And with the rubber jacket it is nice and easy to clean and load.

    If we had only done this 10 years ago.
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    Default Re: Why 4 over 5?

    Originally posted by captstanm1
    CaptainGonzo.....why did you chose 4" over 5". In my area there is only one (1) department that has 4" and they are die hard. Not bashign the decision...just wondering the logic?
    We chose 4" over 5" to standardize our apparatus supply lines with the rest of the FD's that comprise Fire District 14. The other factor was the increased cost of the 5" vs. 4" for hose and fittings. we are outfitting 5 engines (3 front line, 2 reserve) with LDH. We also have a very good water supply. 99% of the city has hydrants ( there is one old homestead with a private road and a private road on Fort Meadow Reservoir that does not have hydrants)

    We are the last "holdouts" in District 14 with 3" supply lines.

    We purchased the LDH and fittings with funding from the FIRE act grant. With the funding, we are also replacing all of our SCBA units (Scott 4.5's) with the new model Scott 50's with 45 minute bottles, integrated PASS devices and the heads up display.
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    I stated earlier that you can't be lulled into doing only forward lays, there are times where you will still need to pump the hydrant. Even 5inch is limited to some extent, and if you need to boost the flow, you're still going to have to pump the hydrant.

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    Anyone using 6" LDH or 6" Storz?

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    Default 4" vs. 5"

    15 years ago we hopped on the band wagon, and were the 4th or 5th dept in our county to goto 4" LDH. Now, it seems like everyone's going to 5", so we just carry a few extra fittings.

    As far as upgrading, I'd love to (just to keep up with the Jones ) ,but due to our financial situation, and current water supply system, the 4" continues to do us well.

    We are using 6" stortz connections on all hard suction hoses (also using the light weight & extremely flexible PVC stuff). Everyone loves it, and haven't had any problems drafting 1250 + GPM through them.
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  23. #23
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    It is pretty standard for all the departments in my area to use 5". The Chicago Fire Department uses mainly 4", but they do have some 5". The C.F.D. also use "Chicago thread" on their handlines, as opposed to us suburban people who use National Standard.

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