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    Default Hartford's 24 hour schedule

    From Channel 3 News. This story can be found at http://www.wfsb.com/Global/story.asp?S=1365724 and there is also a link towards the bottom of the page with a video feed for the story.

    Hartford firefighters pull 24-hour shifts

    HARTFORD -- The owners of Citycellars Wine & Spirits depend on their customers for business, and the fire department to protect their inventory.

    Citycellars had no idea firefighters' schedules have changed to 24 hours on, then three days off.

    "If they can handle it, that's fine," said owner Ron Patel.

    Other business owners criticize the fire department plan off camera saying they don't think they are getting their money's worth.

    It's a plan Fire Chief Charles Teale spent two years designing.

    "People could say 'look at this...on it's face this is a cake schedule. What? I'd love to work one day and be off three,'" Teale said. "Well most people who are inclined to think that way, I'd like to ask them If they'd like to run into a burning building at two o'clock in the morning"

    "There are no breaks during that 24 hour period of time. No down time for firefighters"

    Teale admits the schedule gives firefighters seven workweeks per year with just a single 24 hour shift.

    The rest of the time though, those men and women work a pair of 24 hour shifts per week...and get no overtime.

    The chief believes the deal could save more than $1 million a year, money he needed to find to keep all of his firehouses open.

    "We didn't have to lay off a single firefighter, in part because of the new schedule and the savings that the schedule provides," Teale said.
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    What John and Jane Q Public don't understand is that a firefighter working a 24 hour shift is working the equivalent of 3 days on a "normal" job" with "normal hours".
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    Smile Why so Long???

    My only question is why did the chief spend so much time developing this schedule? Thre are a lot of departments working 24/72 in this area, and everyone seems to like it. One thing that is a likeable side effect to many people is that, with less trips to/from work per month, they have a much wider range of residence location. Quite a few F/Fs or Medics that I know in PG County live out of state. (No stupid residency requirements here) This is a No-Brainer, really. Stay Safe....
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    And also that there is someone there for 24 hours just like before. They are also working the same amount of hours a week as they did before. The ignorance of some people.
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    It was talked about pulling 12hrs here for about 5 seconds!! That idea was shot down fast. I love 24's!!! Its probably the best way for smaller depts that don't handle huge amounts of calls a shift.

    Now I don't know about a 24 with E229Lt..that would probably kill me.
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    What are they saying "work one day and have three off"? If the shift starts at, lets say, seven AM and gets over at seven AM the next day, isn't that working two days? If you were to work seven hours in a day (midnight to 7AM) wouldn't you call that "working" that day? We work a 24/72 schedule here too but we work two days and are off two days if anyone outside the department asks us.
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    as a past 24 hour shift person, this appears to be a win win ..........all houses open, and 3 days off.......... you gotta love the tazpayers until it is their house on fire !
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    ...and if they were working the old 2 day, 2 nights and four days off....or even the 3 days, 3 off, 3 nights three off(common in CT)...then not a thing has changed hours wise...its still 48 hours in 8 days that averages to 42 hours a week.

    ..I am thinking of inventing a new wheel...

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    Originally posted by hfd66truck
    its still 48 hours in 8 days that averages to 42 hours a week.
    And the city isn't paying any overtime (just straight time), so they are saving money.
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    they weren't paying overtime before either..my guess. Almost the whole northeast works one variation of the 42 hour week....all for no OT. FLSA all the way baby....

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    Dave
    Let me know if you figure ut a better way They talked about having a few guys go to 8hrs for a while then the Union threw a fit(thank god) so we are still 24's here
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    Originally posted by hfd66truck
    they weren't paying overtime before either..my guess. Almost the whole northeast works one variation of the 42 hour week....all for no OT. FLSA all the way baby....
    No, they got time and a half before.
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    Question

    Ok I am confused, First: are they still getting paid the same amount per year? Two: time and a half is overtime is it not? We work 24 / 48 shifts avg 56hr week with flsa.
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    I believe that Hartford worked the 3 on,3 off schedule that is common in CT. I work in Norwich PT on a Private ambulance with some guys on the job in Norwich and they have told me that this is pretty much the standard statewide. It goes like this 3 days on, 3 off, 3 nights on, 3 off and repeats. Changing the schedule to 24's just mixes it up a little. Like Gonzo said the public opening their mouth without knowing what they are talking about! What the general public works in 3 we work in one. We are still working for our money.
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    Ok, bear with me...cause my mastery of numbers isn't the best.

    So Adze, if they got overtime for working the 3 on 3 off, what did they get?

    Based on a 7 day week, the hours would work out like this on a 3 and 3 schedule.

    Week 1 - 44 hrs Week 2 - 48 hours Week 3 - 52 hours Week 4 - 30 hours Week 5 - 42 hours Week 6 - 30 hours Week 7 - 44 hours Week 8 - 48 hours.

    So were they paid OT based on the hours they worked, or based on the average of 42 hours a week? And if they had OT in a short week, did they have to hit 40 hours before OT was paid? Did they only get paid for the 30 hours that week?

    I am not saying they didn't, just that it is very unusual for OT to be paid in this type of schedule. FLSA allows for 53 hours to be paid at straight time for police and fire (it might be 56, someone correct me if I am wrong).

    In our current 42 hour schedule, we work a 24 hour shift with 2 24's off, and then a 24 hour shift with 4 24's off. If you run it out over 8 weeks, we work 48 hours hours week 1 thru 4, 24 hours in week 5, 48 hours in weeks 6 and 7, and 24 hours in week 8. We get paid straight time for 42 hours (the average hours worked per week) and the rest is OT. Our old schedule was 2 ten hour days, and 2 14 hour nights, with 4 days off after the nights. Weeks 1 thru 4 were 48 hour weeks, weeks 5 and 6 were 34 hour weeks, and weeks 7 and 8 were 38 hour weeks. We were still paid straight time at 42 hour per week.

    No matter which schedule you chose, it all still comes out the same as far as hours worked. I'll bet they are glad to get off those 3 night tricks though...those used to suck bigtime, especially if you were busy on the 1st 2 nights.

    Dave
    Last edited by hfd66truck; 07-20-2003 at 07:37 PM.

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    Oh yeah, one more thing...

    When they discuss OT savings that come with the 24 hour shift, they are usually refering to the fact that one shift change is eliminated, thus cutting down on holdover OT for calls close to shift change. There also tends to be a reduction in sick time, although this is sometimes shortlived.

    A benefit to this schedule is that the Firefighter arrives to work in the morning, well rested (in theory) and is the care of the City for the next 24 hours. When working the split shift, the night shift guys usually show up after already having worked a full day in the side jobs. (Yes I said it, side jobs - a reality in this day and age if you want food on the table)

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    Originally posted by hfd66truck
    So Adze, if they got overtime for working the 3 on 3 off, what did they get?
    I'll have to get back to you on this one...I'll talk to someone and get the answer.
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    Someone asked what did they get for giving up OT? They saved a whole bunch of jobs. The city wanted to lay off and this was a mutual answer to the problem. They used to get time and a half for any shift over their schedualed shift. Now they have to wait for FSLA to kick in.
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    Thanks for the answer, Keith. I knew they got time and a half but I wasn't sure when it kicked in. Saves me the trouble of having to ask someone.
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    No Problem Adze - Anytime! Actually a lot of depts around here are like that, West Hartford, New Britain...... It kind of stinks but oh well.
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    sorry I know that this is off topic but I am trying to get in contact with gfowlston.

    If anyone has a contact email it would be greatly appreciated, please send to cowboy54@tesco.net

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