1. #1
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    Post Wichita FF's getting "heat" from "Tonight Show" stunt

    WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - Three Wichita firefighters have caused a
    stir within the department after a stunt on a national late-night
    talk show in which one set his chest hair on fire.
    Now, their actions are under review.
    Even the local firefighters union president calls the July 10
    gag, performed before millions of late-night viewers of "The
    Tonight Show with Jay Leno", an "irresponsible act" because it
    contradicts what firefighters preach.
    "We don't encourage our kids to do dangerous stunts," said
    Wichita fire Capt. Doug Pickard, president of the International
    Association of Firefighters, Local 135. "What kind of message did
    we send them?"
    On Friday, one of the firefighters defended the stunt. Lt. Mike
    Corns said because it was a late-night show, the firefighters
    thought children wouldn't see the skit.
    Corns said they took precautions on stage and followed local
    fire regulations. They also tried to represent themselves only as
    private citizens, not members of the Fire Department.
    "It's supposed to be three crazy guys to entertain people," he
    said. All three were off-duty.
    Leno introduced the stunt with the warning: "Remember, don't
    try this at home." Then firefighter Lloyd Cox ignited the hairiest
    part of his chest with a wand-type lighter. The hair flamed for a
    few seconds, then he patted it out. At the same time, Corns and
    firefighter Dave Shonka shot their fire extinguishers at him.
    Shonka declined to comment, and Cox could not be reached.
    The Wichita Fire Department is reviewing the incident, Chief
    Larry Garcia said Friday. But he would not discuss any possible
    discipline against the firefighters.
    Garcia did not mince words about the stunt, calling it
    "idiotic, at the very best." He viewed a tape of the episode
    after it aired.
    Garcia also accused Leno, the host of the late-night talk show,
    of poor judgment for allowing such a skit. A spokeswoman for Leno's
    publicist declined comment.
    Corns said he and the other two firefighters did not want to
    present themselves as firefighters while on the show, only as
    entertainers, he said. They even declined to wear firefighter
    equipment, though urged to by the show's staff, Corns said.
    But in light banter with Leno, Cox said he was a firefighter
    from Wichita.
    The three did take precautions, Corns said.
    Cox used a fire-retardant gel on part of his chest. Although the
    two firefighters shot the fire extinguishers, "it was more for
    show" than necessity, Corns said. He said Cox wasn't injured.
    Corns defended the firefighters' reputations.
    "They've saved people's lives, and they've put out extremely
    difficult fires."
    The three friends traveled to Los Angeles at the show's expense,
    Corns said.
    Although disappointed with the stunt, Garcia also had some
    praise for the three, saying they are among some of the
    better-skilled firefighters in the department, especially because
    of their paramedic training.
    The stunt should not reflect on the Fire Department, but the
    department suffers some because the three are members, Garcia said.
    "They brought shame to themselves, and we're included in
    that."

    (Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
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    I don't really care if they were FF or not. This was stupid and dangerous. Halk of these people who are imitating the jackass stuff are adults.
    Garcia also accused Leno, the host of the late-night talk show,
    At least someone sees the whole picture.
    Garcia also had some praise for the three, saying they are among some of the better-skilled firefighters in the department, especially because of their paramedic training.
    This is frightening. Their skills apparently didn't include any training in fire prevention or public fire education.

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    They also tried to represent themselves only as private citizens, not members of the Fire Department. "It's supposed to be three crazy guys to entertain people," he said. All three were off-duty.
    This quote speaks volumes. Folks, like it or not once we put on the uniform the rules change. When it comes to representing the fire service and our department, we're never off duty.

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    Originally posted by EFD840
    When it comes to representing the fire service and our department, we're never off duty.
    Originally posted by NJFFSA16
    The Wichita Fire Department is reviewing the incident, Chief
    Larry Garcia said Friday. But he would not discuss any possible
    discipline against the firefighters. Garcia did not mince words about the stunt, calling it "idiotic, at the very best."
    Hmm never "off duty" in the eyes of the public, and "idiotic at the very best": yep that about sums it up. It matters not that they refused to state they were firefighters, there were people both in the audience and at home who knew those men, and knew that they were firefighters. Word of mouth is a very powerful tool, when used correctly, but can be equally damaging when used incorrectly. This is definitely one of those "incorrect application of a good tool" situations.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    two words come to mind....

    Freakin' MORONS!!!
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 03-27-2008 at 03:25 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Angry Time for a reality check

    Hey what you do on your time off is your business. So, I guess because people know I am a firefighter I should not sit in the local tavern and enjoy a pop or two, because it reflects bad upon me and the Fire service. Or I guess I should not cuss when I shank my next golf shot, because the guy next hole over knows me as a firefighter. I am shocked that brothers would take this type of stand against fellow brothers. It was a gag and an act, an act of entertainment. I do not care if they were firefighters, paramedics, doctors, lawyer, or clergymen. What I do out of uniform, as long as it falls inside the law, it is my business. If I want to appear on the Jay Leno and set my balls on fire its my business, not yours and definitely not my employers. As long as they did not say hey were Moe, Larry, and Curly from the Wichita, KS FD and were going to set our friend on fire. There is not a thing their employer can do about it, its not like they were in uniform, or using department property. So, what did they do wrong? NOTHING! Time for some people to take a reality check and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!

    This is frightening. Their skills apparently didn't include any training in fire prevention or public fire education.
    What? Get a life. Nobody can tell anybody how to live their life. It goes to the old adage you do not like it? Do not eat it. Do not like the way it looks? Do not look at it. Do not like what I am saying? DO NOT LISTEN!

    I support these guys 100% and I am going to let them know it. Do not throw stones when you live in a glass house, do not judge another person till you walked a mile in their shoes.

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    Ill second that Gonzo, and add that maybe we are just being too hard on these guys. Yep, thats what I said, we're being too hard on them. I mean come on it aint easy being stupid.
    Proud member of the IACOJ
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    Default Re: Time for a reality check

    Originally posted by Pizan1
    Hey what you do on your time off is your business. So, I guess because people know I am a firefighter I should not sit in the local tavern and enjoy a pop or two, because it reflects bad upon me and the Fire service. Or I guess I should not cuss when I shank my next golf shot, because the guy next hole over knows me as a firefighter. I am shocked that brothers would take this type of stand against fellow brothers. It was a gag and an act, an act of entertainment. I do not care if they were firefighters, paramedics, doctors, lawyer, or clergymen. What I do out of uniform, as long as it falls inside the law, it is my business. If I want to appear on the Jay Leno and set my balls on fire its my business, not yours and definitely not my employers. As long as they did not say hey were Moe, Larry, and Curly from the Wichita, KS FD and were going to set our friend on fire. There is not a thing their employer can do about it, its not like they were in uniform, or using department property. So, what did they do wrong? NOTHING! Time for some people to take a reality check and MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!!!!



    What? Get a life. Nobody can tell anybody how to live their life. It goes to the old adage you do not like it? Do not eat it. Do not like the way it looks? Do not look at it. Do not like what I am saying? DO NOT LISTEN!

    I support these guys 100% and I am going to let them know it. Do not throw stones when you live in a glass house, do not judge another person till you walked a mile in their shoes.
    Your "back the brothers at all costs", crap is old and tired. I am a union member. I don't drink the union Kool-aid. If a brother makes a mistake, I will back him. If he does something stupid that embarrases the department and the profession, I am not going to sit on my hands and do nothing.

    Fire preventio is a joke in most departments. It receives a pittanc eof the budget and is historically grossly understaffed. Why? Because of the macho BS attitudes of brain dead fire fighters like these idiots.

    You let them know you are with them. But, do me a favor, let them know, also, that there are whole lot of people who think they are morons.

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    Angry Still Amazed

    You let them know you are with them. But, do me a favor, let them know, also, that there are whole lot of people who think they are morons.
    What is matter with you people? I tell you; thank god I am not in the trenches with you as my brothers keepers. This has nothing to do with Fire Prevention and this has nothing to do with the Fire Service period. These were three guys who went on the Tonight Show to entertain ADULTS! If your kids are up this late in the summer or not watching Jay Leno, then I question your ability to be a good parent. Then I guess we should all be all over Actor Steve Buscemi who WAS a FDNY brother, because he made a movie were a lunatic Mexican goes around shooting up Mexico looking for Buchos. Right. Yeah thatís what I thought, HYPOCRITES. I am done. I am appalled.
    I am Union FF, whippy do da, like that means something, please. I am also a an Officer, and I tell you what, if I was a WFD member, officer, or Union clown, I'd say roll the dice Chief Garcia and I will kick your *** in the grievance procedure and I will then be suing the crap out of you and the City, especially since I am a card carrying member of an AFL-CIO, and I am entitled to my rights. Regardless of what other out of touch, old FF's think. They did nothing wrong, so I guess we will all agree to disagree.

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    I don't agree with Pizan1's argumentative attitude, but I do agree with some of his opinions. I think that these guys were just going on the show to entertain adults. Adults can make their own decisions as to what they want to do. If they want to set themselves on fire, then they are allowed to do it, even if it is stupid. These guys were in no way representing the fire service at all, they didn't wear fire t-shirts, didn't bring a truck to the show, and didn't use company funds to get them to the show. There shouldn't be anything that WFD can do to them without that. They may be idiots for setting each other on fire, and they reflect bad on themselves, but they in no way hurt the fire service, that is until the fire department made a big deal about it and blew it completely out of proportion. Now it's a huge thing and everybody is talking about it, just like the whole "stripper on a truck" thing near my area. That was misuse of a department vehicle, but they could have been disciplined quietly instead of publicizing the crap out of it and plastering the picture all over newspapers and TV screens. Now that this is getting out of hand, the WFD WILL actually have a PR nightmare, if they would have just let it go, since it didn't hurt anyone, nobody would be the wiser.

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    Talking Thanks!

    Thanks Armyfirerescue, I feel you are right, I may be argumentative and come off a little harsh, but I was only trying to make a point and defend my point.

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    Gotta light?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    captaingonzo...you summed it up very well...however, I would suggest a one word summary:

    STUPIDITY!!!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    They may be idiots for setting each other on fire, and they reflect bad on themselves, but they in no way hurt the fire service, that is until the fire department made a big deal about it and blew it completely out of proportion.
    was it stupid? yes. was it dangerous? yes. were they all consenting adults? yes. were they wearing fire department identification? no. were they representing the fire department in any way? well, yeah, one guy mentioned that he was a firefighter, while speaking to jay. is that enough to crucify him? absolutly not!!!!

    these three idiots did it in their private time. i find it very hard to believe that the public will use these three people as prime examples of how everyone in the fire service acts.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

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    I can't believe people make such a big deal about this. These guys were doing something on their own time, good for them. I'm sure everyone in the fire service sits in church during their off time. And these guys could be doing things that are much more offensive than doing a silly prank. The next time I see a fellow FF in a nudy bar, I'll be sure to ask him to leave because he has an image to uphold.

    If these guys were in Hartford, there would be a new rule in the contract, "Can't go on Jay Leno show".

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    What these guys did was stupid and why is this such a big deal? Ok he set him on fire but they told people at home not to do it and they also had fire extinguishers and used them. I'm gonna go with Pizan1 on most of the things he said. Fire prevention was there the gel and the fire extinguishersthat were used along with saying "dont try this at home" sounds like some kind of Fire prevention to me. Everyone is jumping over the fact that they are fire fighters and they set one of them on fire but not see the safety that they did to protect the set them selfs and everyone else in building.

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    Everyone is jumping over the fact that they are fire fighters and they set one of them on fire but not see the safety that they did to protect the set them selfs and everyone else in building
    Bingo! John Q Public is not seeing the safety either, they are seeing a stupid idiot setting himself on fire and getting on national TV. What will they remember? The extinguishers or the guy setting himself on fire?

    "Gee, when I grow up, I want to be on TV. Should I demonstrate fire safety or set myself on fire? Bet I can set my friend on fire instead, or maybe a couch, or maybe a car, or maybe a house..."

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    was it stupid? yes. was it dangerous? yes. were they all consenting adults? yes. were they wearing fire department identification? no. were they representing the fire department in any way? well, yeah, one guy mentioned that he was a firefighter, while speaking to jay. is that enough to crucify him? absolutly not!!!!
    From my first post

    I don't really care if they were FF or not. This was stupid and dangerous. Half of these people who are imitating the jackass stuff are adults.
    The fact of the matter is that it matters little that these idiots were FF. It matters that a "consenting" adult who is physiologically mature enough to breed thinks it is fun "adult" entertainment to set their chest hair on fire. Young adults can also imitate idiotic stunts (the Jackass "contestants" are almost always adults) and get seriously injured.

    The fact they are fire fighters just confirms my argument for mandatory psychologial testing to get hired. It also calls into serious question their credibility if they were to attempt to conduct any type of fire prevention activity.

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    Originally posted by Quigger
    Fire prevention was there the gel and the fire extinguishersthat were used along with saying "dont try this at home" sounds like some kind of Fire prevention to me. Everyone is jumping over the fact that they are fire fighters and they set one of them on fire but not see the safety that they did to protect the set them selfs and everyone else in building.
    Quigger...You have got to be kidding... right?

    Pizan1...your logic is flawed....tragically flawed... read this quote...


    Even the local firefighters union president calls the July 10 gag, performed before millions of late-night viewers of "The
    Tonight Show with Jay Leno", an "irresponsible act" because it
    contradicts what firefighters preach.
    "We don't encourage our kids to do dangerous stunts," said
    Wichita fire Capt. Doug Pickard, president of the International
    Association of Firefighters, Local 135. "What kind of message did
    we send them?"
    Think about that when some kid tries to emulate the Wichita Whackos" and gets himself or others hurt.


    DrParasite...your quote

    these three idiots did it in their private time. i find it very hard to believe that the public will use these three people as prime examples of how everyone in the fire service acts.
    We are not remembered for what we did right in out careers, we are remembered and chastised for the times we screwed up!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    If I understand correctly from the Pro-Wichita Three crowd, you can be stand up guys and some of the best firefighters this country has to offer when on duty, but you can be just as idiotic and ignorant as you want to be when you are off-duty? Please!
    Mike Wallace, Dan Rather, and Morley Safer would have been out of a job years ago if that were the case.
    We all have a moral compass. We know what is right and what is wrong.
    A firefighter with any conscience at all would know not to play with fire, especially where lighting a part of the body is involved and ABSOLUTELY where it involves lighting a part of the body on NATIONAL TV!
    And yes, they are still fellow firefighters and are no doubt still good firefighters, but they have demonstrated poor judgment in this case.
    Just my humble opinion.
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    Default Gonzo and Prez Pickard are flawed

    Pizan1...your logic is flawed.... tragically flawed... read this quote...
    Here is another one then, make sense out of this:
    Then I guess we should all be all over Actor Steve Buscemi who WAS a FDNY brother, because he made a movie were a lunatic Mexican goes around shooting up Mexico looking for Buchos. Right
    From my post:
    Then we should be all over everybody right? The movie Turk 182, Frequency, Backdraft.

    They all have scenes in them that would make any kid want to be a firefighter and emulate a firefighter. Turk 182 the guy is jumping of buildings with just a rope. Frequency a Firefighter is fighting crime and shooting the bad guy. Backdraft, the Lieutenant is drinking alcohol in his bunk. So, tell me, where does it end. The only reason it is being discussed is because the guy said, "I'm a firefighter and I am from Wichita.

    I'll tell you another thing if that Capt. Pickard was in my Union and my president, OUSTED baby. He should have said the only reason it is being brougth out in the press is beacuse they are firefighters and we have no comment because this will make this situatiuon worse and refused comment. Because now it is a snowball that is only getting bigger.

    But hold on here is the kicker. They were off duty and on their own time, so no matter what we all think right or wrong they did it, they'll do it again, why because it is their RIGHT TO! I still say RIGHT ON, do it again. I may hire them to do my kids 5th B-day Party.

    To GeorgeWendtCFI It is time society stops blaming TV shows, Arcade Games, Music for the inadequate parents that are out there. You then make a foolish statement about psychological testing. What a joke those test are and you know it. Obviously then according to what you write we should get rid of the test because it failed in this case.

    Maybe the nay sayers need to go live in China where you have no rights and furthermore we have no right to tell anyone how to live thier lives. So, I am outta here, I do not need to listen to this FLAWED logic. These guys did nothing wrong and do not deserve any lip from this forum.
    Last edited by Pizan1; 07-29-2003 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: Gonzo and Prez Pickard are flawed

    Originally posted by Pizan1

    Here is another one then, make sense out of this:

    From my post:
    Then we should be all over everybody right? The movie Turk 182, Frequency, Backdraft.

    They all have scenes in them that would make any kid want to be a firefighter and emulate a firefighter. Turk 182 the guy is jumping of buildings with just a rope. Frequency a Firefighter is fighting crime and shooting the bad guy. Backdraft, the Lieutenant is drinking alcohol in his bunk. So, tell me, where does it end. The only reason it is being discussed is because the guy said, "I'm a firefighter and I am from Wichita.

    I'll tell you another thing if that Capt. Pickard was in my Union and my president, OUSTED baby. He should have said the only reason it is being brougth out in the press is beacuse they are firefighters and we have no comment because this will make this situatiuon worse and refused comment. Because now it is a snowball that is only getting bigger.

    But hold on here is the kicker. They were off duty and on their own time, so no matter what we all think right or wrong they did it, they'll do it again, why because it is their RIGHT TO! I still say RIGHT ON, do it again. I may hire them to do my kids 5th B-day Party.

    To GeorgeWendtCFI It is time society stops blaming TV shows, Arcade Games, Music for the inadequate parents that are out there. You then make a foolish statement about psychological testing. What a joke those test are and you know it. Obviously then according to what you write we should get rid of the test because it failed in this case.

    Maybe the nay sayers need to go live in China where you have no rights and furthermore we have no right to tell anyone how to live thier lives. So, I am outta here, I do not need to listen to this FLAWED logic. These guys did nothing wrong and do not deserve any lip from this forum.
    Oh God, are we gonna have fun.

    Pizan, dude, you have to remember all your arguments and maintain some consistency. According to you, the stunt was aimed at adults. i haven't mentioned children at all. Why, then, does it matter about the parents. I also haven't blamed TV and the movies. I mentioned Jackass as an example, but I have maintained across these forums that people are responsible for their own actions. I am an equal opportunity blamer of idiots, whether they are FF or not.

    China? Are you kidding?

    The government tells people how to live theirlives every day. They are called laws. The absence of law is called anarchy.

    This is the second time you have threatened to be "outta here". Please?

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    They were off duty and on their own time, so no matter what we all think right or wrong they did it, they'll do it again, why because it is their RIGHT TO!
    Pizan1, are you a Union FF? Doesn't the IAFF have a bylaw about volunteering (on your own time)? Aren't there FD's that have rules against smoking (on your own time)? Do they really need to make a new rule about setting yourself on fire? Seems to me there are lot's of things out there telling you what you can and can't do on your own time, whether it's your right to or not.

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    Default One Final Thought

    Then I guess we need to close the circus down. Because they are aimed at children. Last time I checked the guy juggling, whatever the hell he juggles, that was lit on fire was really impressive to my son. So, to hell with Ringling Brothers Circus. I am writting my Congressman and asking him to close down the circus becuase the guy juggling things lit on fire is just pure bad judgement.

    Pizan, dude, you have to remember all your arguments and maintain some consistency. According to you, the stunt was aimed at adults. I haven't mentioned children at all. Why, then, does it matter about the parents? I also haven't blamed TV and the movies. I mentioned Jackass as an example, but I have maintained across these forums that people are responsible for their own actions. I am an equal opportunity blamer of idiots, whether they are FF or not.
    We all have a moral compass. We know what is right and what is wrong.
    What in the hell did they do wrong? NOTHING!

    And yes, they are still fellow firefighters and are no doubt still good firefighters, but they have demonstrated poor judgment in this case.
    So, no more going to the Circus because the clown juggling bowling pins lit on fire or the guy swallowing his sword is demonstrating poor judgment. I see.

    Does anybody know what if any training these guys have had? I think not. Because I know some clown will write back saying the people in the Circus are trained professionals. Doesn't make a difference. If the guy is juggling something on fire he to can set himself on fire. See the same thing! I know you get the point. So, stay away from the Circus. I guess the guy I know who is a career firefighter who works for Medieval Times on his days off should quit to. Because the whole jousting thing in front of kids and adults is also poor judgment. Will it ever end?!

  25. #25
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    Pizan, my fellow Illinoian:
    You left out the cute, little cheerleaders who twirl the flaming baton as their grand finale. Now, that's entertainment!
    Look; you're comparing apples to oranges.
    A clown juggling flaming torches, though dangerous and entertaining, is a skill that they have practiced and practiced, thus reducing the chances of catching themselves on fire. They ARE trained professionals.
    Jousting by those Medieval folks is also dangerous and entertaining, but again, one that is performed by those who have practiced their skill.
    If the gent who set his chest hair on fire had practiced it many times before, he would not have had any chest hair to set afire on the Leno show!
    So, clowns juggling flaming torches is normal for a circus. That's why it is called a "circus". However, a clown setting his chest hair on fire would not be normal. It would be WRONG.
    I knew a rodeo clown who was very good at getting the bull away from the rider. He was, by most standards, a bit crazy, but man, could he put on a show. He got nailed by the bull a few times. But that is normal behavior for a rodeo clown. Take the same rodeo clown and put him in the middle of an INTERSTATE highway, enticing the oncoming semi trucks and again, that would not be normal. That would be wrong.
    The way I figure it; the Wichita Three going to the Leno show is right; lighting chest hair on the Leno show was dumb, dumb dumb and oh yeah; WRONG! And it was poor judgment.
    Forget the fact that they are firefighters for just a sec and you still come to the same conclusion; setting your chest hair on fire for entertainment's sake is idiotic and sophomoric behavior that is best left to the college pranksters and not our nation's firefighters.
    And besides, NFPA 1403 says that you are not to set anything on fire, unless you know the burn characteristics. Sorry, but I thought that I should at least make my post a little educational.
    Keep working the jab and go to the body more! You doin' OK.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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