OMG! Elf's need to be squashed!

**Adze39** · 08-04-2003, 02:52 PM

Not only do they set fire to places, but check this out. I was reading the story linked off of FH's main page and they had a link to the Earth Liberation Front. I went there to see if they claimed responsibility for the fire in CA. On the ELF main page, the have a guide on "Setting Fires With Electrical Timers - An Earth Liberation Front Guide".

Something has to be done about these wacko's. They say "In Defense of All Life" yet they put our lives in danger.

**Adze39** · 08-04-2003, 02:57 PM

Here's the information from a WhoIs lookup on the domain name:

Thurston, Darren (EARTHLIBERATIONFRONT-DOM)
NO ORG NAME
PO Box 78061, 2606 Commercial Drive
Vancouver, B.C. V5N1G8
CA
Domain Name: EARTHLIBERATIONFRONT.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Thurston, Darren (DTT61) darren@TAO.CA
PO Box 78061, 2606 Commercial Drive
Vancouver BC V5N1G8
CA
604-618-5469
Record expires on 22-Nov-2003.
Record created on 04-May-2002.
Database last updated on 4-Aug-2003 14:54:47 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
DNS.ENVIROWEB.ORG 208.40.195.228
DNS2.ENVIROWEB.ORG 208.40.195.4

**E40FDNYL35** · 08-04-2003, 02:59 PM

The Earth Liberation Front Press

**Adze39** · 08-04-2003, 03:00 PM

Thanks, E40! In all my rage, I forgot to put a link.

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-09-2003, 01:31 AM

The Earth Liberation Front is a terrorist organization and they are a menace to society. BUT...

What they have on their website is protected free speech. I'm wrong?

Go to the website of a major book retailer and search for the Anarchist's Cookbook, Steal This Book, The Poor Man's James Bond or other similar titles. You will be able to buy them no problem. Should these sites be shut down?

Better yet, go to your local public library and look for the same books. You are likely to find them. I did. Should the libraries be purged of all objectionable books?

**Adze39** · 08-09-2003, 01:59 AM

They should be shut down simply because they are a terrorist organization.

And the question becomes, because that domain is registered outside the US, does/should our "freedom of speech" get extended to non-nationals?

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-09-2003, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Adze39
They should be shut down simply because they are a terrorist organization.

And the question becomes, because that domain is registered outside the US, does/should our "freedom of speech" get extended to non-nationals?

OK. Since the US does not control the Internet, how do we shut it down?

And since we are shutting down a site that is objectionable to us, shouldn't we shut down more of them? Do we limit it to terrorist groups? Because Right to Life will have to go. So will several extreme political organizations. Who is going to compile the list? What are the criteria.

And if "freedom of speech" is not extended outside the borders of the US, we should then ban International News outlets, newspapers, magazines, etc who are critical of the US and advocate another political ideology.

And while we are at it, we should probably restrict travel to and from the US so that people with dissenting voices are not allowed to voice their opinions against the US outside the country.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Dangerous road we are travelling here.

**RescuHoppy7** · 08-09-2003, 02:16 PM

Mr. GeorgeWendtCFI What do you suggest we do? Just simply sit around idle and do nothing as these Terrorists described as wanting to protect the environment continue to freely burn down houses and put firefighters at risk, While you may not be able to simply close there site down you should put pressure on the group to remove the guide to setting houses on fire, Last time I checked the top two priorites of Firefighting were life and property and in order to meet these we need to stop groups like ELF.

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-09-2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by RescuHoppy7
Mr. GeorgeWendtCFI What do you suggest we do? Just simply sit around idle and do nothing as these Terrorists described as wanting to protect the environment continue to freely burn down houses and put firefighters at risk, While you may not be able to simply close there site down you should put pressure on the group to remove the guide to setting houses on fire, Last time I checked the top two priorites of Firefighting were life and property and in order to meet these we need to stop groups like ELF.

About two months ago, we had a long discussion here on ELF. I suggest that you go back and search it out and familiarize yourself with the topic.

To summarize, ELF is not an organized group with a monthly meeting, a president, an annual convention or a world headquarters. They are a clandestine, loosely organized terrorist organization whose operations are carried out by small, sympathetic cell groups. the individuals involved will take credit for the action in the name of the group, but they will do so in an underground manner, usually on the ELF website, or through graffiti at the scene.

I am well familiar with this group. I have investigated at least one of their fires. They must be dealt with by law enforcement in the fashion that international terrorists are being dealt with. With force, using intelligence and high-tech criminal investigation methods. You will not stop this group be some fuzzy feeling action like shutting off their website. It will be up again in an hour. Besides, there is no legal method to do so.

The fire service is not charged with the mission of preventing terrorist attacks. What I suggest that you do is leave it up to law enforcement to do their jobs. Did it occur to you that maybe that website actually helps law enforcement keep tabs in these people?

BTW< nobody seems to want to touch my point about the books.

**Dushore5741** · 08-09-2003, 06:14 PM

"Elf's Need to be Squashed"... Until I read on... I thought that maybe that Adze had hit his head or had been splashin the sauce...

This makes me look at those tiny "patch the elf" characters differently. So does this mean we should tie up all the tiny people and put them in gas station closets? They might be turning against us...

**FFFRED** · 08-09-2003, 08:12 PM

Just to make all aware terroristic threats are not covered by freedom of speech. I can't say to you "I'm going to kill you or set you on fire" Both would be considered Assault not free speech.

FTM-PTB

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-10-2003, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by FFFRED
Just to make all aware terroristic threats are not covered by freedom of speech. I can't say to you "I'm going to kill you or set you on fire" Both would be considered Assault not free speech.

FTM-PTB

They wouldn't be considered assault, but they wouldn't be protected either. However...

The objectionable content here is a manual on how to set fires. There are no direct threats associated with the manual, or the entire website for that matter.

**FFFRED** · 08-10-2003, 09:24 AM

George,
I think there are a number of statements on the site that could be argued as terroristic threats. Plus I'm also thinking that a creative Proscecutor could use the RICO statutes to prosecute any members of the ELF. What do you think George?

FTM-PTB

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-11-2003, 03:16 AM

Which ones?

To be considered a "terroristic threat", the threat must be specific: specific person, specific action. The person threatened must also believe that there is an immediate danger that the threat will be carried out. I don't find one threat on the website.

I do believe that the RICO statutes are very helpful in prosecuting terrorist organizations, when the hierarchy of the organization can be identified and the actions of the group can be linked together. To date, law enforcement has not developed this information.

**fallujahff** · 08-11-2003, 06:23 PM

Hey didn't we discuss this a couple of months ago?

There was a pretty lengthy thread for more information---

Stay safe--

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-12-2003, 04:11 PM

From the Anti-Defamation League website
______________________________ ______________

Radical Environmentalist Group suspected in San Diego Arson

Posted: August 8, 2003
The Earth Liberation Front (ELF), the most active radical environmentalist group in the United States, is suspected of burning down a housing complex under construction in San Diego, California, on August 1, 2003. If true, it will be the most costly ecoterrorist attack ever in the U.S.

The blaze, which officials estimate caused around $50 million in damage, destroyed a five-story building and brought down a 100-foot-high crane. The heat from the fire was so severe that window blinds melted in apartments 500 feet away. About 400 residents were evacuated from nearby apartment buildings.

Twenty law enforcement agencies are investigating the arson, including the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Captain Jeff Carle, spokesman for the San Diego Metro Arson Strike Team, said the fire was not an accident. "Someone, some persons came onto this site and set a fire with the intent to burn it to the ground," Carle said.

A 12-foot banner reading "If you build it, we will burn it," along with the initials ELF, was found at the scene. The San Diego Union-Tribune also reported receiving an e-mail from the group saying the banner "is a legitimate claim of responsibility by the Earth Liberation Front."

ELF cells have claimed responsibility for burning several luxury homes and housing developments across the county in recent months. On June 3, 2003, a fire was set at the Sterling Oaks Development in Chico, California. Graffiti reading "Save Our Bio Region ELF" was left at the scene.

On June 4, two houses under construction were burned in Washington Township, Michigan. Graffiti spray-painted on nearby construction equipment read "ELF" and "stop sprawl." On March 21, 2003, two homes under construction were set on fire in Washtenaw County's Superior Township near Ann Arbor, Michigan. The garage door of a nearby house was vandalized with spray paint reading, "ELF, no sprawl."

ELF has claimed responsibility for actions against what they perceive as the evils of urban sprawl for several years. In December 2000, ELF set fire to a condominium under construction in Long Island, New York. ELF said the homes were "future dens of the wealthy elite" and announced "an unbounded war on urban sprawl."

In 1998, ELF claimed responsibility for the arson of a Vail, Colorado, ski resort that caused $12 million in damage, the costliest act of eco-terrorism in American history at the time.
-----------------------------------------------

This is criminal activity. But as you can see, this action will be very difficult totie to specific persons.

**ThNozzleman** · 08-13-2003, 04:32 PM

I wonder why ELF activists don't burn their own houses and cars down. Do you think someone should inform them of the deadly emmissions they are releasing every time they burn something? Has the Green Party been advised of this terrible practice of wanton pollution?

**Bones42** · 08-14-2003, 08:48 AM

They are against, in a way, cutting down trees to make lumber to build these houses/buildings/etc. So, once the trees are cut and made into lumber, and the lumber is used to build a house, they burn the house, which then leads to more trees being cut down to make lumber to rebuild the house. Yup, sounds like a sound idea to me.

**engine23ccvfd** · 08-14-2003, 09:10 AM

I believe a law just went into effect or will soon that makes it illegal to post articles on how to make a bomb.

**GeorgeWendtCFI** · 08-14-2003, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by engine23ccvfd
I believe a law just went into effect or will soon that makes it illegal to post articles on how to make a bomb.

Please cite the law and the legislative body that is pursuiing it.

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