1. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    128

    Default

    You can blame the Federal Liberals on Ontario but if you do you've got to have a serious alternative. When Chretien was first elected we had just had Mulroney. Next time the opponents were Joe Clarke and I can't even remember the Alliance guy thats how impressive he was. And don't accuse me of being Liberal I vote PC. Also if Chretien hates the West so much why did he send disaster relief for the Red River flood and nothing to Toronto for SARS?

  2. #27
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    You've hit the nail on the head Scoop, The Aliance or Reform party or whatever will never be a viable alternative for Eastern Canada, and to you guys out West I do mean Eastern, NOT Ontario The PC's have no real national base anymore( Mulroney saw to that), that leaves us with the Liberals or the NDP (who cannot attract strong enough candidates to win a national election. So guess who will form the next government in Ottawa, and the next, and probably the next after that. It gets monotonous doesnt it.
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  3. #28
    Forum Member
    RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Now in Victoria, BC. I'm from beautiful Jasper Alberta in the heart of the Can. Rockies - will always be an Albertan at heart!
    Posts
    6,329

    Default

    Well since we're talking about it I figured I'd just post this here

    Chretien breaks off from Northern trip to tour B.C. disaster area

    LOUISE ELLIOTT

    IQALUIT (CP) - Prime Minister Jean Chretien interrupted his tour of the Eastern Arctic to visit the fire-scarred Okanagan region of British Columbia on Sunday.

    About 30,000 people have been driven from their homes in the southern suburbs of Kelowna in the face of a relentless blaze.

    Scores of fires have consumed about five times the amount of water usually spent to control such incidents in the province each summer, while destroying vast swaths of forest and some towns.

    "He's going to be on the ground and see it for himself," said Steven Hogue, spokesman for the prime minister.

    Chretien cancelled a planned visit to Cape Dorset on the southwestern tip of Baffin Island to return home before heading to British Columbia.

    He will make the unscheduled trip on the heels of criticism that he was almost invisible during Ontario's province-wide power outage last week.

    During that crisis, the prime minister remained at his cottage in Lac-des-Piles, Que. and monitored the federal response to the blackout over the telephone.

    He did appear before cameras in his hometown of Shawinigan two days after the lights went out. Any earlier public appearance during the outage would have been "grandstanding," Chretien said last week.

    Chretien opened a new national park adjacent to Iqaluit, the capital of Nunavut, on Saturday. He also spent time hiking in the region with his wife, Aline, daughter, and grandchildren.

    The federal government has already dispatched Canadian soldiers to the Okanagan to help fight the forest fires. Chretien indicated he was listening to the appeals of British Columbia Premier Gordon Campbell for federal aid.

    "I heard the premier. We said that whenever he asks we can help, we're there and we'll be there."

    Chretien has been chided for not always being there. He was criticized for failing to go to Toronto in the initial days after the SARS outbreak earlier this year. He was also accused of being slow to speak up after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    But a representative of the prime minister's office seemed prepared for this criticism. Hogue said Chretien was visible during key Canadian crises such as the Saguenay, Que. floods of 1996, the ice storm which hit eastern Ontario and Quebec in 1997, a tornado in Pine Lake Alberta in 1999 and the Winnipeg flood of 1997.

    The prime minister's plans in Kelowna include touring an evacuation site.

    The Canadian Press, 2003

    08/23/2003 15:00 EST

    But a representative of the prime minister's office seemed prepared for this criticism. Hogue said Chretien was visible during key Canadian crises such as the Saguenay, Que. floods of 1996, the ice storm which hit eastern Ontario and Quebec in 1997, a tornado in Pine Lake Alberta in 1999 and the Winnipeg flood of 1997.

    Oh so this makes it all OK?? LMFAO!!!
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  4. #29
    Forum Member
    PFire23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    On a rock, surrounded by water
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    Chretien is a GOOF!!! ......... need I say more???
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  5. #30
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Originally posted by Scoop422
    You can blame the Federal Liberals on Ontario but if you do you've got to have a serious alternative. When Chretien was first elected we had just had Mulroney. Next time the opponents were Joe Clarke and I can't even remember the Alliance guy thats how impressive he was. And don't accuse me of being Liberal I vote PC. Also if Chretien hates the West so much why did he send disaster relief for the Red River flood and nothing to Toronto for SARS?
    At least during the SARS crisis the waiting period for EI was waived for medical workers. The same relief was requested for workers in Alberta who lost their jobs due to mad cow disease and was refused (a bit of a double standard don't you think).

    My beef with Ontario voters is that they don't realize that they don't hold politicians accountable for the past. The voters in Hamilton voted Sheila Copps back in after the GST lie. They had a glorious opportunity to send a message that lieing is not acceptable, instead they did the opposite. I hope Chretiens promise of aid to those displaced in BC doesn't prove to be another of his lies but I am sceptical. There will be aid but I fear it will be a token response and far less than is needed.

    I hope for once that Chretien proves me wrong but I won't hold my breath.
    Last edited by manofire2; 08-25-2003 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #31
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Originally posted by Smoke20286
    You've hit the nail on the head Scoop, The Aliance or Reform party or whatever will never be a viable alternative for Eastern Canada, and to you guys out West I do mean Eastern, NOT Ontario The PC's have no real national base anymore( Mulroney saw to that), that leaves us with the Liberals or the NDP (who cannot attract strong enough candidates to win a national election. So guess who will form the next government in Ottawa, and the next, and probably the next after that. It gets monotonous doesnt it.
    How can you say there is no alternative unles you are willing to vote for change. The problem is that any party proposing decentralizing Government cannot win in Ontario. Why give up a good thing. It really is a Catch 22, if you tell the truth Ontario won't vote for you and if you lie you compromise your principles. Liberals don't seem to have a problem with this (neither for that matter did Mulroney but I've always said he was a liberal in tory clothing).

  7. #32
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    manofire, you have answered your own question, I'm presuming you support the Aliance party, but if it stands no chance in Ontario, and no chance in Quebec, and no chance in Eastern Canada even though its small representation will do little to change the balance of power then it is doomed to defeat
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  8. #33
    Forum Member
    RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Now in Victoria, BC. I'm from beautiful Jasper Alberta in the heart of the Can. Rockies - will always be an Albertan at heart!
    Posts
    6,329

    Default

    nooooooo noooooooo noooooooooo say it isn't so!!!!!!!!!!

    I heard a VICIOUS VICIOUS RUMOUR on the radio this morning that Chretien wants to go to some stupid thing in Mexico which has been moved up from November to January and now he WANTS TO STAY ON LONGER!!!!!

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

    Last edited by RspctFrmCalgary; 08-26-2003 at 12:49 PM.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  9. #34
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Originally posted by Smoke20286
    manofire, you have answered your own question, I'm presuming you support the Aliance party, but if it stands no chance in Ontario, and no chance in Quebec, and no chance in Eastern Canada even though its small representation will do little to change the balance of power then it is doomed to defeat
    Therein lies the rub. How does one in vote for a party which does not represent the wishes of the constituents or worse in the case of the liberals MISrepresents the wishes of the constituents. I would rather vote for a party or candidate which is doomed to defeat than to comprimise my pricipals and vote for a party which has repeatedly shown a distain for me and my part of the country.

    The question of whom I support is a difficult one. I support the ideals of the Reform Party which were comprimised to form the Alliance Party (a move which I am not totally in agreement with). The principals of equal voices for all Canadians in my view is still a vision which can and should be attained. The liberals continue a policy of pitting regions of the county against one another in order to attain their agenda which is to Govern the country to fulfill the needs of the core and not the needs of the whole. Hyphenated Canadianism and classes of Canadianism (I call it the Upper Canada Syndrome) will continue to drive wedges between the regions until we elect a leader or a party with the guts to say that Canada needs to change the way we govern. A government that governs for all Canadians not just the needs of one or two provinces. A government that does not pit region against region, person against person.

    If there was such a leader or party, I would vote for them no matter what party label they are attached to. Unfortunately not much has changed with the liberals since Trudeau waved his third finger salute at BC.

  10. #35
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    128

    Default

    manofire2

    It sounds like you're the one pitting region against region.

  11. #36
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,339

    Default

    Wow...it's sort of nice to sit back and watch someone besides the donkeys and the elephants hash it out for a change!

  12. #37
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Originally posted by Scoop422
    manofire2

    It sounds like you're the one pitting region against region.
    If expecting all persons to be treated with equality regardless of what part of the country they live in is pitting region against region.

    I guess I am guilty.

    If expecting honesty and impartiality from our elected officials is pitting region against region.

    I guess I am guilty.

    If expecting people left homeless in BC to get the same level of response from Ottawa as those affected by the ice storm in Quebec is pitting region against region.

    I guess I am guilty.

    Will I stop expecting these things from my government....Never!

    Will I stop believing that Ontario voters need to vote with the brain and not their heart (or whatever body part they use).

    I hope some day I can.

  13. #38
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Originally posted by ThNozzleman
    Wow...it's sort of nice to sit back and watch someone besides the donkeys and the elephants hash it out for a change!
    The United States does not have a monopoly on morons in government or the idiots who vote them in. It is somehow appropriate that half your politicians are donkeys and half of ours are *****es.

  14. #39
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,339

    Default

    I'll have to admit; I've learned a lot about Canada by reading this forum. I used to date a girl from Canada, what province she lived in, I don't recall. I remember that she thought the healthcare system there was the best thing since sliced bread, though. Keep it up, guys; this is pretty interesting to me.

  15. #40
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Originally posted by Scoop422
    manofire2

    It sounds like you're the one pitting region against region.
    But Scoop, he does have a point, there is a real feeling in Western Canada particularly that all of Canada's power base is in "Central Canada" (i.e. Ontario and Quebec) sure it can be argued that the majority of the population live in those regions, but that does nothing to relieve the feeling of lack of representation felt by those in Western and Eastern Canada
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  16. #41
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Originally posted by ThNozzleman
    Wow...it's sort of nice to sit back and watch someone besides the donkeys and the elephants hash it out for a change!
    Oh don't worry Robert, there are plenty of idiots in politics on both sides of the border to keep us all well entertained.
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  17. #42
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Originally posted by ThNozzleman
    I'll have to admit; I've learned a lot about Canada by reading this forum. I used to date a girl from Canada, what province she lived in, I don't recall. I remember that she thought the healthcare system there was the best thing since sliced bread, though. Keep it up, guys; this is pretty interesting to me.
    BTW he was wrong, the best thing since sliced bread is Canadian women
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

  18. #43
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Should we move parliament out West or out East or Quebec. Would that shift the power base? Does Ontario get special treatment? Ask the nurses who haven't paid for all the O.T. they worked during SARS. Ask the tourism workers in Toronto who have no jobs. Do the B.C. homeless get more Federal dollars than the ones in Toronto? No, almost all of the homeless costs have been downloaded to the city. Where do the majority of immigrants come? Ontario. Do the Feds help out with housing costs and such for them? Ontario gives the Feds more than 5 billion that doesn't come back. I'm not saying that we should get more, I'm saying that it should be even also. Coming down on Ontario for our bone head PM is wrong. We are all Canadian and no matter how bad any of us think we have it we live in the best country in the world. Not because of our government but because of our people.

  19. #44
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Saying Ontarians voting patterns need work does not mean that the people aren't great. Yes Ontario supports the Country as a whole, as does Alberta and it should be this way, the strong must spport the weak. Next Century the roles could be reversed.

    Yes I am bitter towards the liberal government. In 1981, I was one of very many Albertans who lost our jobs because of the single most damaging and regressive pieces of legislation in Canadian History (NEP). I will never forget nor will I forgive. Jean C. as finance minister played a major role in Creating the NEP, despite his efforts to play down his role.

    That being said, as the bumper sticker says, "I love my Country, it's the Government I don't trust".

  20. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber
    mcaldwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Panorama, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,022

    Default

    My only real pet peeve with our politicians lately is that our leadership choices over the last few elections have been uninspiring and boring.

    Regardless of which party you support, all the recent leaders have been morons (some of them right up there with ole Dubya). Chretien has clearly been in power too long, but I almost hate to see him go because he has just become interesting in the last few years (with his pepper spraying antics and recent outspokenness in regards to the War, etc). The recent batch of Alliance leaders have all had the personality of a retarded sloth. I was very interested in the old Reform party back in the early nineties, but when it came time to vote, the candidates were far too inexperienced and often just plain insane. You might as well vote green!

    I used to vote PC until they jumped of the parlimentary bridge. I wouldn't mind seeing them gain a few seats back this time, but I fear they have been without power so long that they will have to learn how to play on the big stage again.

    I was indifferent to Chretien for the first two terms, but his recent antics are quite entertaining. I have also seen the range of good and bad economic times, and the other parties could not have played the last decade any better. I know a few would have made it worse as well (cough-NDP-cough).
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  21. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Regardless of which party you support, all the recent leaders have been morons (some of them right up there with ole Dubya).
    Whoa! I was enjoying this little debate and learning something, too. Until this little gem. History will show that this man was far from a moron. I'm not going to go into a long thing, here. But you taint your argument by shooting off a gratuitous insult at our President. You know that Pres. Bush has done nothing to Canada. So keep your debate going and leave us out of it.

  22. #47
    Forum Member
    Smoke20286's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Dont take it personally George, Canadians by and large consider all politicians to be morons, its a safer bet then presuming they know what they are doing.
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register