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  1. #1
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    Question Helmets: Traditional vs. Modern

    Just asking for some help here. My dept will be purchasing new gear soon, head to toe. We currently are using the "modern" style helmet, but alot of us want to go with the traditional look.
    Are there any advantages or disadvantages to either style of helmet?
    A question arose from a "modern" supporter about the shields on front of the traditionals getting in the way. Has this ever happened to anyone?
    Any facts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


  2. #2
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    I personally use a Ben 2 Plus and have yet to have any problems with the helmet, i wish my department would swith over to a traditional helmet, i believe it gives a professional look towards the public.
    "BIG FIRE = BIG WATER!!"
    Leather Forever

  3. #3
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    Leather!!
    "I truly believe that tradition is important to the long-term survival of the fire service."-Lt. Andrew Fredricks, FDNY,9-11-01

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    Default

    Here we go again!!!!

    You can search the posts here on "helmets" and find all kinds of stuff about it.

    My dept. issues Ben Franklin II's with Bourkes and goggles. You get a traditional look with top shelf safety. I have not heard any problems with the 4" face shields on traditional style helmets. If you got a choice or can sell it to The Man, get Bourkes with goggles!

    Keep your head down and your powder dry.
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    Lt.Jason Knecht
    Altoona Fire Rescue
    Altoona, WI

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
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    Go traditional...If you wnat o go old school Go Leather!
    Nuff said
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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  6. #6
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    Default

    AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! !!!!

    Let me guess...next you are considering buying new nozzles!

    Seriously....buy what you can afford and what you think will work the best for you and your department. Thay all have plusses and minuses.....personally I would choose leather...the 1010 is a good alternative.

    Dave

  7. #7
    Forum Member neildonahue's Avatar
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    Default Cairns Brothers Aluminum 1970s

    A helmet is only as good as the head inside it.
    I preferred the Cairns Aluminum helmet from
    the 1970,s. It was great for breaking windows,
    and if you wanted to be in style you wore it backwards.
    That way nobody knew if you were coming or going.
    Then some genius said, hey you could get electrocuted
    if you came in contact with an electrical source. So that was the end of the Cairns Aluminum Helmet..
    But then it must have been the same genius that said lets get rid of the wooden ladders because they were too heavy.
    So what do we buy ?(Right, you got it)Aluminum metal ladders because they are lighter, but dont they conduct electricity?
    Then someone came out with the plastic helmets.
    Well , until you see one melted at a fire or melted
    stuck to your head, what can I say.. Go Cairns leather
    traditional and dont worry about the weight.
    And dont be the guy who carrys it under his arm,
    because it might mess up his hair.But whatever
    you buy, treat your helmet with respect, for the
    life it saves may be your own..Stay Safe Brother
    Heres a good link about Helmets
    http://www.allhandsfire.com/helmets.html
    P/S Use the flip up shields .. They work fine.
    Just drill two holes, screws in , and your ready
    for action....
    Neil
    Last edited by neildonahue; 08-21-2003 at 08:33 PM.

  8. #8
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Well.............

    For a "traditional" look at an affordable price, you can't beat the Cairns 1010. I have one that has seen some hard years of service, (I run over a thousand calls a year personally, the station total last year was 9,137) and before anyone asks, I have Cairns Goggles ON the helmet, and it's the best system that I have found. Flip downs and bourkes are not NFPA approved for total eye protection, so why bother with them at all? Anyway, don't take my word for it, shop around, and ask questions. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber jaybird210's Avatar
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    Default

    We recently switched almost all our crews to Cairns 1010s, from a variety of salad bowls. The decision was primarily a morale issue; the salad bowls work fine, but the traditional style helmets look.... I dunno, "proper."

    I agree whole-hartedly with the venerable Chief Woods on the eye-protection. I personnaly wear leather, with Bourkes; and all our 1010s have Bourkes. They are only there for decoration. Everyone was also issued safety glasses. Whatever you end up with, if it comes with a face shield, take it off. It'll only get hung up on stuff, the first $#itty fire you get into will cloud it with soot and crap making it useless except as a blinder, and printed bigger than crap on the side: "This shield not impact-rated. Not to be used for impact protection."
    Omnis Cedo Domus

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  10. #10
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    Default Shop around and compare

    Lots and lots of different helmets out there, made of multiple substances with different eye protection systems etc. Get some to try out (or at least on), one of our members got a Fire Knight, 'fighter pilot' style, I liked the looks and looked around, Pacific Helmets sent me an F7 to try, bought it immeadiately, and have never been happier with a piece of equipment. Kevelar nice and light, built in face shield and light holder, I feel more side protection, and can move head and neck more than with a 'traditional' style, especially when 'packed up'. Leather is great tradition but heavy, I would truely love one (for my wall). Look around and compare, #1 -protect your melon, then cost, last priority is appearance. Good Luck with whatever you select.


    Be Safe Out There.

  11. #11
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Forget tradition...

    Are you going to throw away your handheld radios and go
    back to cans and string? Leather fire hose and rubber
    turnouts. Believe me, I respect tradition, but am NOT
    big on making that the only factor in buying an important
    piece of protective clothing.

    More too often, I read people in here stating- "TRADITION!"
    "Its all about tradition." I feel/hope a more educated person(s)
    should look outside the traditional box and research
    more reasons to purchase any product other than "tradition."

    Now, ofcourse I am going to throw in my favorite helmets.
    They are the Phenix First Due line. www.phenixfirehelmets.com
    Yeah, they are lighter, but very popular all over the
    world and your neck isnt sore after wearing them.

    I mean think about it, who gives a rip what you wear vs.
    YOUR job performance. When you leave a scene, do you get
    more "atta boys" because you wore leather or did the
    fire go out better because you had "tradition" on your
    head???

    Think about it...

    PS- F/T job- Cairns 1010
    P/T job- Phenix 1500
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 08-24-2003 at 06:20 PM.

  12. #12
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Chuckle, Chuckle.................

    Boy, I had an momentary lapse yesterday. Went to Wendys for lunch, ordered a Taco Salad, and when the girl placed it on the counter, I thought it was being served in Brett's helmet. Closer inspection showed that it was just another salad bowl. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Forget tradition...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    Are you going to throw away your handheld radios and go
    back to cans and string? Leather fire hose and rubber
    turnouts. Believe me, I respect tradition, but am NOT
    big on making that the only factor in buying an important
    piece of protective clothing.

    More too often, I read people in here stating- "TRADITION!"
    "Its all about tradition." I feel/hope a more educated person(s)
    should look outside the traditional box and research
    more reasons to purchase any product other than "tradition."

    Now, ofcourse I am going to throw in my favorite helmets.
    They are the Phenix First Due line. www.phenixfirehelmets.com
    Yeah, they are lighter, but very popular all over the
    world and your neck isnt sore after wearing them.

    I mean think about it, who gives a rip what you wear vs.
    YOUR job performance. When you leave a scene, do you get
    more "atta boys" because you wore leather or did the
    fire go out better because you had "tradition" on your
    head???

    Think about it...
    I for one haven't had a sore neck after a fire because of the traditional style helmet. Your argument that those helmets affects job performance is ridiculous. Maybe you guys don't respect tradition over on the west coast, but else where most people do. Fire fighters have been wearing those style helmets for many, many years. Why change to some lame *** round looking helmet? So we can look more like utility workers?

  14. #14
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    Default

    Why is it the "non-traditional" guys always talk about tradition like it is a plague. Tradition isn't slow or backwards thinking, it isn't even a reluctance to change. It is defined as "The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication". Also as "A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage." I think tradition gets blamed for way too much. I respect those who have gone before me, much of what we now know was learned with their blood.

    We have a tendency to re-invent the wheel in the Fire Service, but when everything gets boiled down to its core, we fall back to the tried and true methods that have worked for years. Sure we modify them, tweak em a bit.

    I would think by now Bou that you would have figured out that what people wear matters to them. Not just because "we always wore it", but for a multitude of reasons. People will stand here and speak in favor of leathers as much as you will speak in favor of the Phenix helemts. You will notice in my post I offered a couple of alternative that were not leather.

    We will never get a concensus on helmets here, nozzles either. We need to accept it an move on. But for the love of God please read my words on tradition....thats what it is all about, not which helmet I wear.....

    Dave

    (Parts of this post a re a reprint from an earlier post on this topic.)
    Last edited by hfd66truck; 08-24-2003 at 08:11 AM.

  15. #15
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chuckle, Chuckle.................

    Originally posted by hwoods
    Boy, I had an momentary lapse yesterday. Went to Wendys for lunch, ordered a Taco Salad, and when the girl placed it on the counter, I thought it was being served in Brett's helmet. Closer inspection showed that it was just another salad bowl. Stay Safe....
    [size=huge]ROTFLMAO![/size]

    Posted by hfd66truck
    Tradition isn't slow or backwards thinking, it isn't even a reluctance to change. It is defined as "The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication". Also as "A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage." I think tradition gets blamed for way too much. I respect those who have gone before me, much of what we now know was learned with their blood.

    We will never get a concensus on helmets here, nozzles either. We need to accept it an move on. But for the love of God please read my words on tradition....thats what it is all about, not which helmet I wear.....
    [size=huge]AMEN![/size]
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  16. #16
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Thumbs up 1010!

    I've worn them all - soup bowls, leathers, Bullard look-alike (ugh!)1000's, 1010's, and am currently testing a Morning Pride traditional style. I love the look of the leather, but hate the weight. More power to the folks who can stand to walk around with that heavy thing on thier head. IMHO, the 1010 offers the traditional look in a lighter, more well-balanced package. I've got one at work and one at the volly house, and will replace them with another 1010 should anything happen to them!

  17. #17
    Forum Member RescuHoppy7's Avatar
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    Default

    CALFFBOU, if i do remember correctly the Phenix First Due is in fact a LEATHER helmet, so you make comments about those who embrace tradition and then go brag that you have a leather helmet?? Personally i use a Ben 2 plus because it gives me a traditional look and it cost less and when your in college you need all the money you can save :-D ~Stay Safe
    NYS FF1/AEMT-CC
    IAEP Local 152
    "You stopped being in charge when I showed up"

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    At least you don't have to wear one of these damned things..
    London Helmet (Euuughh)
    Last edited by SteveDude; 08-24-2003 at 12:09 PM.
    Steve Dude
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  19. #19
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chuckle, Chuckle.................

    Originally posted by hwoods
    Boy, I had an momentary lapse yesterday. Went to Wendys for lunch, ordered a Taco Salad, and when the girl placed it on the counter, I thought it was being served in Brett's helmet. Closer inspection showed that it was just another salad bowl. Stay Safe....
    H- I was also driving down a country road, saw a dead cow
    and thought, wait, i could go back, cut some skin and have
    a helemt. Ofcourse, I would have to keep painting it so it
    wouldnt rot and chip off like some others I have seen.
    And the extra weight on my head would really benefit me
    and the public...

  20. #20
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default 2 types...

    Originally posted by RescuHoppy7
    CALFFBOU, if i do remember correctly the Phenix First Due is in fact a LEATHER helmet, so you make comments about those who embrace tradition and then go brag that you have a leather helmet??
    Hey bro, I thik you missed a few items there. First, Phenix
    made a plastic helmet first, then introduced a leather line.
    I wasnt bragging about anything and I dont own a leather
    either. But I have tried them all and currently wear a
    Carins 1010 and a Phenix First Due.

    See them all at www.phenixfirehelmets.com

    Take care...
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 08-24-2003 at 06:30 PM.

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