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  1. #1
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    Question Frequently Asked Questions in means of escape:

    During a fire emergency, tenants evacuate via the stairs, and tenants with disabilities wait on the stair landings if elevators are not working, protected by a stairwell pressurization system. All procedures are laid out in the buildings Fire Safety Plan, which is approved by the local Fire Service. But is it adequate?

    It is important to realize that an able-bodied person among the building population may become situational disability in the context of high rise evacuation, and may need assistance to get down the stairs.

    How to get these people down quickly and with minimum assistance in the absence of elevators?

    How to empty the total building population in the shortest possible time in the event of the worst conceivable scenario that could happen to a tall structure?

    How to correct egress deficiencies in old building or to provide additional emergency exit(s) or increase the size of existing stairways for mass rapid evacuation where it is not possible due to building structure?

    Would someone care to share their views, offer possible solutions..........


  2. #2
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs down It's a Dirty Job, but Someone has to Say:

    In my personal opinion, it's time to cut this off. This thread seems to be another one where someone is on a fishing expedition, looking for support for Escape Chutes. I belive there is a commercial intent here and I am filing a complaint with the WT.
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    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    I kinda thought the same thing when I saw the first post. When are these salesmen/distributors/consultants going to get it through their heads?????

  4. #4
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    Are the questions in this thread make sense or logic to the fire and building community?

    What this thread hope to achieve is to have someone to share their views, offer possible solutions..........

    Please do not take it persoonally that someone is on a fishing expedition, looking for support for .............

  5. #5
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Well escapeconsult, you have tried multiple times to prove your case and get support for your product here. Each time, you don't find it, you don't answer the questions that are posed to you, then you disappear for a while and then start another thread on the same topic.

    For the rest, this is why there is an Ignore button.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    I am sure that the sales and marketing team at this website would be glad to sell you some advertising space.
    Or are you merely trying to gain support for the next revolutionary fire safety product?
    Regardless, you are dangerously close to crossing a very thin line.
    Perhaps you should check with the Terms of Agreement.
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  7. #7
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    Unhappy

    originally posted by Bones42
    ......you don't answer the questions that are posed to you, then you disappear for a while and .........
    this allegation is untrue! my apology if i did not provide you with the precise answers to your questions. it is not easy to provide RIGHT answers "to avoid dangerously close to crossing a very thin line" and yet to be misunderstood for "trying to sell the next revolutionary fire safety product" in this forum.

    I'm still feeling puzzle of why people are against the TRUTH of this issue posted in this thread?

    I quote from news articles of October 3, 2002:

    (Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, who is on the board of
    directors of Advanced Evacuation Systems, said that during his years in the Israeli Defense Force and later as a public servant, he saw the enormous effort that was needed to respond to emergency situations and the importance of planning in dealing with those situations successfully. He said the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, made clear what every fire department official and emergency manager around the world has known for a long time: "Our tallest buildings and largest structures are vulnerable. Whether in a fire or an earthquake or -- heaven forbid -- another terrorist attack, the
    systems we have in place right now to evacuate people in urban settings are, quite frankly, inadequate.")

  8. #8
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Not against the truth at all. I won't argue that people in upper floors of tall buildings are at risk. I'm just having a hard time imagining a chute coming out a window, say even 1 every 5 floors, going 60 floors at least. Some buildings would require multiple chutes, where are they going to be without hitting each other on the way down? If there aren't that many chutes available, then will they really benefit without being able to get to a floor that has the chute? Where would the chute end up? In the middle of a street? That might cause a little traffic related risk to individuals. The article you posted in an earlier thread, about the man using a chute to escape from a truck, was good and showed a good use of the chute. I agree, something better needs to be done to help people escape, I just don't see these chutes as that thing. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

  9. #9
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    Bones, if you were trying to sell it, you could imagine it.

  10. #10
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    originally posted by Bones42
    .....If there aren't that many chutes available, then will they really benefit without being able to get to a floor that has the chute?.....
    Bones, I guess you have got a misconception about the application of escape chute in aiding building evacuation. The system was developed in response to quick emergency egress of all kinds including terrorist threats. It is an innovative ways of getting people out of buildings faster before the situation deterioriates or terrorist attacks.

    Once again, I wish to reiterate that this life saving chute is not a replacement of exit stairs but is an additional safety feature to speed up the emergency egress process when the elevator is not working. It is also a means for the disabled to self-escape from the upper-floor giving them a better chance of getting out alive before the situation gets out of control. Therefore, in an emergency evacuation, building occupants should not rely on chute alone but also the exit stairs that are available.

    Planning saves lives! In any fire plan when there is no contingency for eventual evacuation of persons waiting in refuges will place the lives of these people at risk.Tragedy could arise when a fire breaks out in that building and pose a fire trap to those who cannot evacuate themselves by stairs. It has to be a concerted effort by the authorities and the public to address such issue. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

    Its my opinion that when planning the human egress feature of a building, the design consideration for the evacuation of those people who are unable to use stairs, such as the disabled individuals, should also be included. Such as, to incorporate an accessible means of egress designed into the structure (mulitple-chutes) which enabled evacuation access to everyone including the disabled at the building planning process stage.

    Custom designed chutes can be installed in existing buildings. The system is packaged into a relatively small, unobtrusive container, that can be retrofitted into the window, balcony and rooftop of buildings. To deploy the system, released a mechanism manually at the compact receptacle where the chute is stored and within seconds it unfolds the chute to fall vertically to ground.

    As in all evacuation plan, first responders, building managers and even tenants would be trained and drilled in how to deploy the system safely. Inside the building a fire warden issues directives to the evacuees, giving the go-ahead when it is safe for the next person to enter the chute. At ground a fire warden assist the evacuees to get out the chute quickly. In this way, the evacuation process will be well coordinated and panic situations can be avoided and more lives can be saved!

    Therefore, a safe and speedy egress from tall structures can be achieved or improved at additional cost. So that if an eventual evacuation occurs, the simultaneously used of exit stairs and escape chute would takes much lesser time to empty the total building population. That's my opinion!

  11. #11
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs down You're on the list........

    Escapeconsult, you have just joined cdevoe on my very short list of those who just don't get it, and have been put on the "Ignore" list.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  12. #12
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    hwoods, I'm just answering to those questions posed by bones, no hard feeling please!

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    While I agree with Chief Woods, Bones & George,
    I have to wonder...
    A 210 pound person, sliding down a plastic (I'm assuming) slide and sliding down said slide 10+ stories, how fast will my body be moving? How will I stop my forward momentum? What is going to catch me at the end? Who will stop the next person from getting on this slide too soon?
    I think the idea is not realistic.
    Please don't use this forum to market your products.

    *Mark
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  14. #14
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    Mark, there are ways to get around this problem. But if I were to explain or elaborate the solution, would people again misunderstood that I'm trying to market next revolutionary fire safety product in this forum?

    I find this forum is very meaninful for sharing infomation and solutions to fire related topics! But sad to say.............

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by escapeconsult
    Mark, there are ways to get around this problem. But if I were to explain or elaborate the solution, would people again misunderstood that I'm trying to market next revolutionary fire safety product in this forum?

    I find this forum is very meaninful for sharing infomation and solutions to fire related topics! But sad to say.............
    While I'd like to hear your "ways to get around this problem" I do not want to be marketed on this forum.
    You'll see I italicized a quote from your last post. This is exactly what people do not want. This is exactly in violation of Firehouse.com Forum user rules.

    *Mark
    Last edited by mark440; 09-11-2003 at 05:18 AM.
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  16. #16
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    originally posted by mark440
    A 210 pound person, sliding down a plastic (I'm assuming) slide and sliding down said slide 10+ stories, how fast will my body be moving? How will I stop my forward momentum? What is going to catch me at the end? Who will stop the next person from getting on this slide too soon?
    Mark, it is not a slide that is make of plastic. The chute construction is of fire resistant fabrics of 3 layers, that can withstand temperature to certain degree, allow time for as many people to slide through before it become deformed. It is a vertical gravity descend type, uses braking coat spuncell in allowing users to self-control his/her own speed of descend. The system is designed to safeguard those who are most vulnerable in an emergency: children, the elderly, the injured, and the disabled. After the user enters the chute, he or she is protected from heat, smoke, fire or hazardous debris.

    Aside for used in building, this system has also being used for marine, offshore, rocket launching pad. The maximum opening size for the chute for such industrial application is 800mm that enable a person that is 200+ lbs with a large equiped suit to occupy safely.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    escapeconsult, I understand it can be deployed as needed. I understand it will not replace stairs. I understand it is a supplement to existing escape routes. I am still having a problem with a chute every 5 floors going out the west side of a building that is 60 floors. That's about 10 chutes all on the one side. That is going to make for a big mess down at the bottom of those slides as there will be people exitting the building, safety control officers at the bottom of each slide (somehow communicating with someone 60 floors up to ok the next escapee), fire trucks (still need them near the building), police cars, ambulances, and the general public. Maybe if all buildings had lots of free space around them where none of this traffic would be might make it a little easier.

    You talk about this being installed in thousands of buildings around the world. Has any of these buildings had a fire and these chutes been used? Post some links to articles or footage of actual scenes. They would be interesting to read. I know you posted one a while ago about the escape from a burning vehicle. Not tests, not drills, but from actual fire emergencies.


    Another question, after the chute has been deployed and used, is it pulled back up and stored for use again or does it need to be replaced by a new chute?

  18. #18
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
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    I need to see pictures to understand this one.

    I don't see a difference in me jumping out a 60 story window and me sliding down a tube 60 stories. Either way, the end result can't be pretty. Self-braking? I'm not sure I understand how you do that when you are sliding through a collapsible tube.

  19. #19
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    cozmosis, I agree with you that its easy to see pictures to understand how it works. suggest you visit this site: http://www.twaron.com/pdf/news12/Artikel3.pdf

    By God's grace of jumping in this chute from a 60 story window is that you'll be 99.9% to get out alive in a life threatening situation!

    Bones42, to install such a chute in existing building, you would need to survey to identify the appropriate installation site(s) or location(s) where it can be strategically and safely installed for effectively used in an emergency by as many people as possible. There are many factors that would need to be considered, such as strategic locations available, clear landing ground, etc. In many cases, the window, balcony, rooftop of the building would need to have some alteration to accomdate the retofitting of the customised chute, and also for the landing too! At the end you may just have a few chutes installed strategically at different levels in accordance to the building's fire evacuation plan!

    Walkie-talkies are used for better communication and coordination between the fire warden inside the building and the fire warden issues directives to the evacuees. Once the evacuees arrived at the ground, they will be quickly directed to move away to the "safe" gathering or reporting place as in any evacuation plan! In this way it is unlikely to have a big mess at the exit point of the chute.

    Can you imagine the scenario of total building population rushing out from the available exit stairs (may be 2 or 4 in a skyscrapper) while the firefighters have to rush up in the same stairs if the fire elevator is not working in an eventual evacuation situation? Would there be a big mess at the final exit points at the ground level? In any emergencies, chute or no chute, I guess there would be fire trucks (still need them near the building), police cars, ambulances, and the general public at the scene. It just a matter of crowd control, etc!

    As you know that currently there is no legislation that require buildings to provide chute for aiding evacuation and rescue puposes. However, many FD allow such chutes to be installed at the building's owner discretion in meeting their building evacuation requirement. Therefore, most owners of such chute have either seen or experience at risk in enountering a mass evacuation incident or unfortunate incident involving the disabled or aged during an evacuation.

    Apart from the escape from a burn out excavator, at this point in time, I have not come across of any of these buildings had a fire and these chutes been used yet. Will post such articles in this forum when i come across. However, I do come across news on "the fire alarm and the sprinkler system that was just being serviced a few weeks ago was not functioning when the fire incidents happened".

    Yes, after the chute has been deployed and used, it is pulled back up and stored for use again if its not badly damaged by the fire. Its my opinion that if the chute had saved many lives in a fire evaucation, given the wisdom, i think the owner would consider to replace it with a new chute!

  20. #20
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
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    Originally posted by escapeconsult
    However, many FD allow such chutes to be installed at the building's owner discretion in meeting their building evacuation requirement.
    What fire departments (in the USA) are allowing high-rises to install such chutes? What buildings have them?

    Its my opinion that if the chute had saved many lives in a fire evaucation, given the wisdom, i think the owner would consider to replace it with a new chute!
    I would think that if the chute was used in a real emergency and saved many lives... The manufacturer would replace it free of charge. (Much as you will find with some makers of fire safes.)

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