WTC cross

**tanker5117** · 09-09-2003, 08:53 AM

Sep 9, 2003 7:42 am US/Eastern
(TRENTON, N.J.) A steel beam in the shape of a cross from the World Trade Center wreckage has drawn criticism from an atheist group.

The American Atheists objects to the cross at ground zero because they say it's a religious emblem.

Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper that the cross is -- in her words -- ``a Christian religious advertisement.'' Johnson said allowing the cross to remain, is -- in her words -- ``an insult to everyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion.''

The group, founded by the late Madelyn Murray O'Hare, is considering a lawsuit to prevent the cross from becoming part of any permanent memorial to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Too bad she is so insulted, but I think there are alot more people that believe in God then don't. Tanker

**PFire23** · 09-09-2003, 09:23 AM

Here's a solution for her............ if ya don't like it avert your damn eyes and DON'T look.

**CJMinick390** · 09-09-2003, 09:42 AM

I agree with Pfire on this one. While you have a right to express your opinion in the US, others also have the right to ignore you and/or tell you to bug off. It's gotten to the point where anything offends someone. There's lots of stuff going on that I don't like. I don't whine about it, I ignore it. This is just a way for someone to jump up and down and say "look at me."

**IACOJRev** · 09-09-2003, 10:38 AM

Don't get me started...

**superchef** · 09-09-2003, 10:56 AM

This is just a way for someone to jump up and down and say "look at me."

CJ- I agree. If you don't like it don't look at it. If there is something I do not like to look at, I don't look at it. Along with freedom of expression, we also have freedom of choice in this country. Anyway as the Rev said...don't get me started.....

Cheffie

**RspctFrmCalgary** · 09-09-2003, 10:56 AM

Don't get me started...

That's what I just said to Tanker

Think its a weeeeee bit more important of a cause to fight for to make sure that the victims who have not been identified have a proper burial at the WTC?? To btch and complain about a piece of debris which gave millions of people hope in a dark dark time, regardless of their religious or non-religious beliefs??!! These people need to get a grip!!

**NeilMcD** · 09-09-2003, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by CJMinick390
I agree with Pfire on this one. While you have a right to express your opinion in the US, others also have the right to ignore you and/or tell you to bug off. It's gotten to the point where anything offends someone. There's lots of stuff going on that I don't like. I don't whine about it, I ignore it. This is just a way for someone to jump up and down and say "look at me."

Amen to CJMinick's post. I'm not particularly religious and strongly support efforts to separate government from religion and vice versa.

As I understand it, the WTC cross was a naturally left there as part of the collapse (as unnatural the collapse was). I don't recall hearing anyone saying that the workers at Ground Zero cut the beams to actually FORM a cross. This is something that happened as a result of a major tragedy. Some people find their own particular comfort in seeing a christian symbol appear out of such destruction and may interpret it as a sign from God. Others, like myself, may see it as one symbol in a tragedy that has inspired 3,000+ symbols, including the now-famous number 343.

Hope that made sense.

**captstanm1** · 09-09-2003, 12:05 PM

Niel...I do beleive you are correct.... Those two beams were cause as a result of a natural phenomenon.

In response to the group.... I agree with those who say..."don't look!" If that does not work...MOVE! Try living in Afghanistan or Iraq...I don't beleive they have crosses there....just crosshares from a terrorist's gun!

I see the reverand is biting his tongue

**tanker5117** · 09-09-2003, 12:06 PM

The rev is indeed biting his tongue.

Come on, Rev, lets hear your thoughts.

Tanker

**RspctFrmCalgary** · 09-09-2003, 12:36 PM

Yes, the debris fell naturally into the form of the cross. It wasn't "deliberately" raised on behalf of Christians. It WAS like Neil said, a symbol rising out of the destruction that many took comfort from.

**IACOJRev** · 09-09-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by tanker5117
The American Atheists objects to the cross at ground zero because they say it's a religious emblem.

Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper that the cross is -- in her words -- ``a Christian religious advertisement.'' Johnson said allowing the cross to remain, is -- in her words -- ``an insult to everyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion.''

The great Constitution of the United States guarantees a person's freedom OF religion - it protects the right to choose to worship however you wish. The Constitution does not guarantee freedom FROM religion.

The law does not state that relious symbols and references cannot be displayed. It simply protects the citizens of our Nation from the government mandating a particular form of worship as the King of England did a few hundred years ago - thus causing a bunch of folks to move here and form the United States of America.

I respect the American Athiests choice not to acknowlege the God whom I serve. However, if the members of this organization knew what they were doing, they would insist that every human and animal were killed, every tree cut down, every star removed from the sky. Because these are all things that HE created and they proclaim His Glorious Majesty.

**CJMinick390** · 09-09-2003, 12:45 PM

Well put, Rev.

**Adze39** · 09-09-2003, 12:50 PM

These people claim we, as Christians, are pushing our ideals upon them. However, by taking away a natural phenomenon and taking words like "Under God" out from the Pledge, they are forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

If you don't want to see a cross...don't look at it!

If you don't want to say "Under God"...don't say it!

If you don't like "In God We Trust"...don't use our money!...oh wait...they don't complain about that.

We don't force them to say or look at anything because we respect their rights. In just return, they should respect ours.

**DeputyChiefGonzo** · 09-09-2003, 04:21 PM

I heard that "coo coo clock" on the Laura Ingraham show on the radio the other night last night while I was putting around in my garage.

She stated that she would have no problem with the "Ground Zero cross" if the Atheists symbol was also displayed on the site...

What a (expletive deleted) hypocrite!

**tanker5117** · 09-09-2003, 04:26 PM

you mean there is an atheists sysmbol? what is it, nothing?

Tanker

**DeputyChiefGonzo** · 09-09-2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by tanker5117
you mean there is an atheists sysmbol? what is it, nothing?

Tanker

It's the atomic symbol with the letter A as the nucleus of the atom.

**MOTOWN88** · 09-09-2003, 04:29 PM

Godless heathens. What is the symbol for an Athiest???

I feel the need to go to confession now I am having bad thoughts and uttering many many bad words about this.

**firemanpat29** · 09-09-2003, 04:34 PM

Judgement day

Catholic OH jesus
Jewish OH lord
Islamic OH alah
Athiest OH SH*T

**tanker5117** · 09-09-2003, 04:34 PM

from their website ( i have to go wash my hands now)

"An international symbol for Atheism has long been needed. When American Atheists was formed in 1963, a contemporary scientific symbol was chosen; this acknowledges that only through the use of scientific analysis and free, open inquiry can humankind reach out for a better life."

So, thousands of years of faith in all religions mean nothing? Give me a break.

Tanker

**E40FDNYL35** · 09-09-2003, 04:36 PM

some people just don't get it......

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