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Thread: WTC cross

  1. #1
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    Angry WTC cross

    Sep 9, 2003 7:42 am US/Eastern
    (TRENTON, N.J.) A steel beam in the shape of a cross from the World Trade Center wreckage has drawn criticism from an atheist group.

    The American Atheists objects to the cross at ground zero because they say it's a religious emblem.

    Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper that the cross is -- in her words -- ``a Christian religious advertisement.'' Johnson said allowing the cross to remain, is -- in her words -- ``an insult to everyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion.''

    The group, founded by the late Madelyn Murray O'Hare, is considering a lawsuit to prevent the cross from becoming part of any permanent memorial to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    Too bad she is so insulted, but I think there are alot more people that believe in God then don't. Tanker
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    Forum Member PFire23's Avatar
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    Here's a solution for her............ if ya don't like it avert your damn eyes and DON'T look.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

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    MembersZone Subscriber CJMinick390's Avatar
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    I agree with Pfire on this one. While you have a right to express your opinion in the US, others also have the right to ignore you and/or tell you to bug off. It's gotten to the point where anything offends someone. There's lots of stuff going on that I don't like. I don't whine about it, I ignore it. This is just a way for someone to jump up and down and say "look at me."
    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
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    Fire Chaplain IACOJRev's Avatar
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    Angry

    Don't get me started...
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    This is just a way for someone to jump up and down and say "look at me."
    CJ- I agree. If you don't like it don't look at it. If there is something I do not like to look at, I don't look at it. Along with freedom of expression, we also have freedom of choice in this country. Anyway as the Rev said...don't get me started.....

    Cheffie

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    Don't get me started...
    That's what I just said to Tanker

    Think its a weeeeee bit more important of a cause to fight for to make sure that the victims who have not been identified have a proper burial at the WTC?? To btch and complain about a piece of debris which gave millions of people hope in a dark dark time, regardless of their religious or non-religious beliefs??!! These people need to get a grip!!
    Last edited by RspctFrmCalgary; 09-09-2003 at 10:59 AM.
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    Originally posted by CJMinick390
    I agree with Pfire on this one. While you have a right to express your opinion in the US, others also have the right to ignore you and/or tell you to bug off. It's gotten to the point where anything offends someone. There's lots of stuff going on that I don't like. I don't whine about it, I ignore it. This is just a way for someone to jump up and down and say "look at me."
    Amen to CJMinick's post. I'm not particularly religious and strongly support efforts to separate government from religion and vice versa.

    As I understand it, the WTC cross was a naturally left there as part of the collapse (as unnatural the collapse was). I don't recall hearing anyone saying that the workers at Ground Zero cut the beams to actually FORM a cross. This is something that happened as a result of a major tragedy. Some people find their own particular comfort in seeing a christian symbol appear out of such destruction and may interpret it as a sign from God. Others, like myself, may see it as one symbol in a tragedy that has inspired 3,000+ symbols, including the now-famous number 343.

    Hope that made sense.

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    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Niel...I do beleive you are correct.... Those two beams were cause as a result of a natural phenomenon.

    In response to the group.... I agree with those who say..."don't look!" If that does not work...MOVE! Try living in Afghanistan or Iraq...I don't beleive they have crosses there....just crosshares from a terrorist's gun!

    I see the reverand is biting his tongue
    Last edited by captstanm1; 09-09-2003 at 05:53 PM.
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    The rev is indeed biting his tongue.

    Come on, Rev, lets hear your thoughts.

    Tanker
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    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Yes, the debris fell naturally into the form of the cross. It wasn't "deliberately" raised on behalf of Christians. It WAS like Neil said, a symbol rising out of the destruction that many took comfort from.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
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    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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    Fire Chaplain IACOJRev's Avatar
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    Default Re: WTC cross

    Originally posted by tanker5117
    The American Atheists objects to the cross at ground zero because they say it's a religious emblem.

    Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper that the cross is -- in her words -- ``a Christian religious advertisement.'' Johnson said allowing the cross to remain, is -- in her words -- ``an insult to everyone who doesn't believe in that particular religion.''
    The great Constitution of the United States guarantees a person's freedom OF religion - it protects the right to choose to worship however you wish. The Constitution does not guarantee freedom FROM religion.

    The law does not state that relious symbols and references cannot be displayed. It simply protects the citizens of our Nation from the government mandating a particular form of worship as the King of England did a few hundred years ago - thus causing a bunch of folks to move here and form the United States of America.

    I respect the American Athiests choice not to acknowlege the God whom I serve. However, if the members of this organization knew what they were doing, they would insist that every human and animal were killed, every tree cut down, every star removed from the sky. Because these are all things that HE created and they proclaim His Glorious Majesty.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    MembersZone Subscriber CJMinick390's Avatar
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    Well put, Rev.
    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
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    IACOJ Agitator Adze39's Avatar
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    These people claim we, as Christians, are pushing our ideals upon them. However, by taking away a natural phenomenon and taking words like "Under God" out from the Pledge, they are forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

    If you don't want to see a cross...don't look at it!

    If you don't want to say "Under God"...don't say it!

    If you don't like "In God We Trust"...don't use our money!...oh wait...they don't complain about that.

    We don't force them to say or look at anything because we respect their rights. In just return, they should respect ours.
    IACOJ Agitator
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    Angry

    I heard that "coo coo clock" on the Laura Ingraham show on the radio the other night last night while I was putting around in my garage.

    She stated that she would have no problem with the "Ground Zero cross" if the Atheists symbol was also displayed on the site...

    What a (expletive deleted) hypocrite!
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    you mean there is an atheists sysmbol? what is it, nothing?


    Tanker
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    "Never underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups"


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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by tanker5117
    you mean there is an atheists sysmbol? what is it, nothing?


    Tanker
    It's the atomic symbol with the letter A as the nucleus of the atom.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Forum Member MOTOWN88's Avatar
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    Godless heathens. What is the symbol for an Athiest???

    I feel the need to go to confession now I am having bad thoughts and uttering many many bad words about this.
    I.A.C.O.J IRISH TATTOOED-HOOLIGAN

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    Question

    Judgement day


    Catholic OH jesus
    Jewish OH lord
    Islamic OH alah
    Athiest OH SH*T

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    from their website ( i have to go wash my hands now)

    "An international symbol for Atheism has long been needed. When American Atheists was formed in 1963, a contemporary scientific symbol was chosen; this acknowledges that only through the use of scientific analysis and free, open inquiry can humankind reach out for a better life."


    So, thousands of years of faith in all religions mean nothing? Give me a break.

    Tanker
    I.A.C.O.J. Firefighter/EMT-B

    "I'm gonna drill a hole in your skull and pump out all the stupidity"
    Gunny Ermey


    "Never underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups"


    Humpty Dumpty was pushed

    Polishing the Chrome on all the IACOJ "apparati"

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    some people just don't get it......
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