1. #1
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    Question help on new truck

    MY DEPARTMENT, DERBY VOL. FIRE DEPT. IN RICHMOND COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA WAS AWARDED A FIRE ACT GRANT IN ROUND 14 FOR A NEW PUMPER TANKER. THIS POST IS TO INVITE VENDORS TO REQUEST OUR SPECS TO BID ON THIS TRUCK AND TO GET FEEDBACK FROM OTHERS ON THE FINAL SPECS.
    OUR PLAN IS TO HAVE SPECS READY BY OCT 20TH WITH BIDS NEEDED BY NOV 1ST. IíVE SET UP AN EMAIL ACCOUNT FOR THIS : derbyvfd@netscape.net OR SEND INFO BY MAIL TO DERBY FIRE DEPT, 2179 DERBY ROAD, ELLERBE NC 28338.
    THE TRUCK WE ARE LOOKING FOR WILL BE A COMMERCIAL CHASSIS WITH THE FOLLOWING BASIC THINGS:
    CHASSIS; 2 OR 4 DOOR CAB, DEPENDING ON $, LEANING TOWARD INTERNATIONAL BUT ARE OPEN TO OTHER MAKES. 270 AMP ALTERNATOR AND 3 OR 4 GROUP 31 BATTERIES REQUIRED.
    DIESEL ENGINE, MANUAL OR AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, WEíRE RURAL AGRICULTURAL AND EVERYONE CAN DRIVE MEDIUM DUTY STICK, ALTHOUGH I BUY AUTOMATICS FOR MY BUSINESS.
    PUMP; 1250 OR 1500 GPM SINGLE STAGE, WE HAVE HALE BUT ARE OPEN TO OTHERS.
    TANK; 1000 GAL POLY OR SS
    BODY; SS, ALUMINUM OR GALVINEAL AND WITH OUR BUDGET WILL PROBABLY BE STEEL WHICH IS ACCEPTABLE BECAUSE IN THE YEARS IT DOES SNOW THE STATE NEITHER SCRAPES OR SALTS THE ROADS IN OUR DISTRICT.
    SIDE PUMP PANEL; CANíT STAND THE LENGTH OF TOP MOUNT IN DRIVEWAYS AND WE ARE HAULING OUR WATER SO PUMP OPERATOR NEEDS TO BE ON THE GROUND TO DIRECT NURSING AND DUMP TANK OPERATIONS. WE WENT TO PORTABLE RADIOS WITH PAGING FOR ALL MEMBERS SO COMMUNICATIONS ARE BETTER AND YOU CAN USUALLY SPOT TRUCK WHERE SIDE OPERATOR CAN SEE ANYWAY.
    1íí BOOSTER REEL, OPEN TO LOCATION AS IíVE SEEN SOME GOOD IDEAS ON THESE FORUMS.
    PLUMBED FOR 3íí DECK GUN.
    FOAM TANK, I DONíT THINK WE CAN AFFORD CAFS BUT WOULD LIKE TO SEE A DESIGN IN WHICH WE COULD ADD IT LATER WITHOUT A HUGE COST PENALTY.
    GENERATOR; BELT OR PTO POSSIBLE BUT WILL PROBABLY USE GAS 5000 WATT GENERATOR WE OWN.
    SQUARE TAIL STYLE BODY WITH REAR BUMPER AND NO TAILBOARD TO ADD COMPARTMENT SPACE AND CONTROL LENGTH.

    AND NOW FOR THE ITEM THAT WILL MAKE THIS TRUCK DIFFICULT TO GET FOR OUR $149,500.00 BUDGET: TRUCK TO BE EQUIPPED WITH NFPA 1901 2003 EDITION REQUIRED EQUIPMENT. WE MAY BREAK OUT HOSE, NOZZLES, SCUBA, ETC. AND BID SEPARATELY.

    THIS IS OUR FIRST NEW TRUCK PURCHASE IN OUR 25 YEAR OLD DEPT. AND WE WILL APPRECIATE FEEDBACK FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS WHO HAVE BOUGHT TRUCKS FOR THEIR RURAL DISTRICTS.
    THANKS IN ADVANCE,ÖBRION RICHARDSON DVFD.

  2. #2
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    Biron,
    I am not sure what qualifies as a tanker, in terms of gallons of water carried. 1000 may be the lowest you can go to be considered a tanker. I am not sure exactly what your grant says but you arent asking for much out of the ordinary, I wish you good luck.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  3. #3
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    WERUJ1,
    IN OUR AREA A TRUCK WITH MORE THAN 1000 GAL OF WATER IS A TANKER AND DOES NOT QUALIFY TO BE RATED AS A PUMPER, REGARDLESS OF PUMP CAPACITY OR EQUIPMENT CARRIED. THE TRUCK WE ARE GOING TO BUY WILL PROBABLY BE OUR FRONT LINE ENGINE FOR AT LEAST 20 YEARS. ALL RURAL DEPARTMENTS AROUND US RESPOND 2 1000GAL TANK 1000 Ė 1500 GPM Ďí PUMPER-TANKERSíí TO STRUCTURE FIRES WITH A SECOND DEPT PAGED AS AUTOMATIC MUTUAL AID. THE TRUCK WE ARE REPLACING IS A 1975 FREIGHTLINER COE, 3000 GAL TANKER WITH ALUMINUM TANK WHICH WE BUILT IN 1980 AND WHICH HAS BECOME OBSOLETE AS OUR AREA HAS GONE TO THE 1000GAL TRUCKS FROM EX-GI AND 500 GAL ENGINES. OUR COUNTY-WIDE WATER SYSTEM HAS COME 6 MILES CLOSER TO US AND WE NOW HAVE 5 HYDRANTS IN OUR 6 MILE DISTRICT AND WE HAVE INSTALLED 15 DRY HYDRANTS WHICH MAKES THE COOKIE CUTTER 1000/ 1250 P-T WORK VERY WELL IN OUR AREA.
    ON A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE 4000 GAL AVAILABLE ON FIRST PAGE AND IF IT IS TOO INVOLVED TO PUT OUT WITH < 2000GAL THEN IT WILL BE A TOTAL LOSS ANYWAY. WE HAVE NO MULTI-FAMILY DWELLING UNITS IN OUR DISTRICT. ON AN AGRICULTURAL BUILDING FIRE WE WOULD HAVE 5 TO 10 SURROUNDING DEPTS PAGED WHICH WOULD ALLOW AN EFFECTIVE SHUTTLE SYSTEM TO OPERATE AT A 2 MILE HAUL WITH ANY TRUCK EQUIPPED TO BE ATTACK, RELAY, SHUTTLE OR SUPPLY

  4. #4
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    then it sounds like you have a good plan in place. Also on a really minor note, please turn off your caps lock and in computerese that is considered yelling. Keep us in the loop as to how the whole thing is going.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  5. #5
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    i know your looking for people to contact you.but heres a few good links for some manufacturers of some good commercial trucks..

    http://fire.kovatch.com/gallery/truc...ale/newtrucks/

    http://www.smeal.com/apparatusitem.a...pparatus&aid=9

    http://www.hmetruck.com/fire/

    http://www.americanlafrance.com/home
    Last edited by butcherd; 09-26-2003 at 12:06 AM.

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    Werji1,
    I apologize for shouting, I didnít realize I was, but I canít type and the shift key was one thing not to worry about with cap lock on. Butchered, thanks for the leads, weíve talked to 2 of them already and will contact the other 2. Iíve had several leads on the e-mail account and weíre well on the way towards the purpose of this post, to get the most truck available for the funds we have. My worst fear is to find out later that we didnít the truck we needed for our department because the rep. selling it wasnít among the 8 we know of in our area.
    Thanks, Brion

  7. #7
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    For alternate booster reel locations - check out the booster reel thread in this forum. I have posted several pictures & links to 4 Door commercial chassis that have placed the reel under the rear passenger doors (in the step well area).

    As for the rest of your spec. I would suggest the following:
    Set down and make a list of the 10 most common jobs this truck will have to do - List them in order of importance and leave plenty of space (maybe even do 1 per page).

    Now look at your existing trucks and see what you would change to do these jobs you have just listed easier (be general) and write it under each job on your list.

    I.e. Fire Attack - Lower hose bed or pre-connects faster to deploy.

    When you finish that list - then sit down and discuss exactly what it would take to accomplish that job. Use these ideas and concepts to create your spec.

    Don't be afraid to think outside the box. All pre-connects do not have to be accordion loaded cross lays. Some departments use double donut rolls in bumper & side step pans instead.

    Take a look at this site - follow the links to the Fallon, NV & Rattlesnake, CO trucks. Pretty big for what your doing, but a lot of great ideas you can carry over.

    http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6658

    I haven't been to all the other Dept. web sites (yet) so I'm not sure what their apparatus is like so it may pay to send a little time digging.

    I'll preface this by saying I have no clue what your financial status is like so keep that in mind as you read these remarks, but . . .

    Don't be afraid to examine alternate funding. Look into lease purchase, financing (both local & dealer supplied), grant monies, etc. You shouldn't sacrifice firefighting power over budget if you can possibly avoid it. Buying a truck is usually the single largest investment a department will ever make. Don't spend that much money for yesterdays technology.

    I wish you the best of luck with the new truck, please keep us "in the loop" as your design takes shape.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

  8. #8
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    You of you first stops should be www.isomitigation.com

    If you are spending $150k on a new truck make sure you have ALL the equipment that will max out ISO credit. A plan that improves your ISO rating (now or in the future) can have a substantial payoff for your citizens.

    In particular how are you going to move the required amount of water? Getting rid of a decent sized 3000gal tanker and now going to move a piddly little 1000gal at a time? ISO requirement for a small rural house of 500gpm for 2 hours is 60000gal. That is a LOT of 1000gal tiny tankers.

  9. #9
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    Neiowa,

    Thanks for the info on ISO. Iíve read everything on the site and printed most of it. We requested and received our free copy of rating book and we have made some changes to our specs to help us improve our rating next year. I havenít posted a reply because on the day of your post we received notice of our 3-5 year ISO inspection on 10-22-03 and have been busy preparing for it with our goal of requesting a survey next year to lower our 9s rating to a split 5/7 or 5/8. We have also had 13 truck committee meetings since 10-01.
    Our state, NC. is one of the 5 that does ISO inspections on the state level. Our inspection on 10-22 went much better than the earlier ones and I credit most of this to what weíve learned from the ISO website.
    In regard to your comments on tankers, I agree with you, but we have to go with the SOP in our area as an odd size tanker screws up a shuttle. We are in the sandhills of NC and there is a pond within 1 mile of any point in our district. The problem with this is that this water in always downhill from the nearest road and maintaining a road to a pond for a 30,000# truck is difficult and almost impossible for a 50,000# + truck.
    Youíre from rural Iowa and Iím from rural NC and I think others enjoy will this comparison. You have real soil, we have sand. 2 inches of rain tonight means we cannot plow till after lunch tomorrow and will not need to irrigate for 2 days. 2 inches for you means you can take a weeks vacation because you canít get in the field anyway. A 2 wheel drive pickup will go anywhere here in wet weather and we may need to get a tractor to pull a 4 wheel drive out in dry weather.
    Iím not trying to start a debate on tanker size, but in this area, 1000 gal pumper-tankers work at our <2mile hauls with all stations responding equivalent trucks that fit anywhere in the process.

    Thanks, Brion

  10. #10
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    Default Tanker size

    Brion,Look where your responder was writing from.Iowa, where water sometimes isn't that easy to find.Sometimes we repond to requests without knowing what is available to work with.I live in the "lakes"region,2000 gal tankers work well here although most have gone to 3500 gal "supertankers".If you run an evolution with both,make sure to have enough Foldatanks and fill sites to support both sizes.The little tankers will run circles around the big ones on short hauls that you describe.A lot of nice choices out there,do your homework and choose wisely.Try to get a chassis with big brakes,a good sized driveline(Eng,trans,rearend)and at least 18 cfm on the air compressor.Good luck,T.C.

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    Open water source within 1 mi of any fire? And likely does not freeeeeze in Jan. Great problem to have, we wish. No ponds in our area. Our water source until last week was hydrant in larger town 8mi from our fire station (up to 15 mi from far end of fire district). I just complete a 120000gal (1000gpm/2hr) storage "tank farm"/pump source to load tankers that is located in the center of our fire district. Entirely constructed of surplus military equipment (free). Plan for additional 60000gal (500gpm/2hr) storage in rural "cache"/cistern/tank farm points.

    So to put on my project managment engineer's hat - 1mi or less to water source, requirement to move ___ gpm. Use up you limited manpower on tanker shuttle? Lay LDH and relay. You'll move as much water as you need, won't spend $ on insurance for multi tankers (inour area $250trk/yr), won't spend $____ annual for maint and housing. The manpower used to moving water is subtracted from your available force for ISO (you lose ISO credit). If all downhill (I'm sure not all) a couple of relay pumpers and a mile of LDH and you can move that 1500 gpm with 2 men vs ____ men driving ____ tanker trucks. These could me trailer mounted portable engine pumps. (This actually what I'm doing with 9000' of LDH/pumps I got from military surplus system (free)).

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