PRIMARY attack line - Lay-in early!

[Batt18]

After finishing THIS ARTICLE about “firefighter’s caught and trapped”, Chief Vince Dunn dropped it off at a firehouse for a friend to review......... "I asked this veteran engine company officer to read it and tell me what he thought of it, and also for his opinion on why firefighters are caught and trapped when fighting structure fires. Several days later, I stopped by the firehouse and asked my friend what he thought of my article. He gave me a cup of coffee along with his comments. "No offense meant," he said, "but you chiefs still don't get it." "Get what?" I asked. He turned and pointed to a chalk sign someone had written on the kitchen blackboard: "It's the first attack line, stupid."
"What's that supposed to mean?" I asked. He replied, "When are the bosses on this job going to finally recognize the first attack hoseline is the single most important firefighting action at a fire? When are you guys going to acknowledge and appreciate the first hoseline stretched at a fire saves lives, including saving lives of firefighters?"

I echo his statement - your primary attack line, and its placement, may be the most important thing you can do during the initial stages of a fire in saving lives of occupants and firefighters.

[UsingAllHands]

Now THAT is a good article. Nice job in the pic, too. Paul, what type nozzle would you like to have if you had the pipe that tour?

[Batt18]

Great question I ain't gonna rise to the bait! Place is well vented - plenty of fire demonstrating near full involvement on two or more floors - 15/16ths smooth-bore off the 1 3/4" line! Another line laid in behind for support.

[IAFFChad165]

Great article. But looking at that picture I can't see the point of pulling an 1 3/4 line. Maybe as a back-up/safety line.

[Batt18]

Not going tactical on this without seeing exposures and the stability of the upper floor/roof etc. If I was going inside I would take the 1 3/4" for ease of advancement in small rooms. Two 180 gpm lines will kill this amount of fire. If the structure isn't stable (they are laying in 1 3/4" I believe) I would use the larger lines and aerials to hit it from the street. You wanna lay in larger lines - fine, but it will slow your advance unless you got a crew of four backing each line up (maybe in NY eh)!

[E229Lt]

Great article. But looking at that picture I can't see the point of pulling an 1 3/4 line. Maybe as a back-up/safety line.

HUH?

If you're pulling an 1 3/4" line as a back up I'll have to assume you have used your 1" booster as the first attack line...RIGHT?

[CJMinick390]

The backup line should ALWAYS be larger than your initial attack line, right E229LT?

[E229Lt]

I rarely say "ALWAYS"

[E229Lt]

Here's the photo in question. What have we got? What do we need?

[Weruj1]

I dont think that the inch and 3 qwaters is gonna get that done ......may be 3 of them .........

[firenresq77]

I dont think that the inch and 3 qwaters is gonna get that done

It did in Backdraft, though.............

[E229Lt]

I dont think that the inch and 3 qwaters is gonna get that done ......may be 3 of them .........

With all due respect, I think you're wrong.

At the risk of sounding cocky, I think this fire isn't as bad as it looks....how come????????

[Weruj1]

well it has vented, there is some fire on division I and certainly heavy fre on the "A" side on divsion II. I dont see much coming out of the "B" side, so it may contained to the "A" side only. What are your thoughts Artie ?

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Its pretty well ventilated.

[blancety]

Well vented on second floor.

Building appears to be a 2 story w/ peaked roof (small amount of fire showing there).

Building appears to be about 15 or so feet across.(a guess based on window size), unkown depth.

Does not appear to be fire showing from the Exp 2 or 4 sides.

1 1 3/4 line operating on first floor from door, fire darkened down.

or is it because there are no truckies there yet Loo?

[IAFFChad165]

I guess it should always be bigger. So when I pull the only 2 1/2 on the engine, then I'd have to pull a 4" and find some kind of nozzle. The reality is that the engine is old just isn't set up that great. So if that's a hard rule to always pull bigger then I guess we can't pull a backup/safety or hope the other engine isn't on another incident and not stuck on the hydrant. But in the reality of my world it's an early 80's LaFrance that is out of room. I'm not gonna see a new one so I have to make do.

[blancety]

I believe the rule is equal or bigger...

[erics99]

Originally posted by IAFFChad165
I guess it should always be bigger. So when I pull the only 2 1/2 on the engine, then I'd have to pull a 4" and find some kind of nozzle. The reality is that the engine is old just isn't set up that great. So if that's a hard rule to always pull bigger then I guess we can't pull a backup/safety or hope the other engine isn't on another incident and not stuck on the hydrant. But in the reality of my world it's an early 80's LaFrance that is out of room. I'm not gonna see a new one so I have to make do.

The key is water flow. A 2 1/2 can easily back up another 2 1/2. If you are using say an 1/8th tip on the first line, use an 1/4 tip on the second line. Or in the case of fog nozzles, put more pressure on the line. Of course it's all subject to opinion.

[hwoods]

Air drop, thin borate mix, 2000 gal. should do it.

[blancety]

Nice one Chief!