1. #1
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    Default Spontaineous Human Combustion...



    Its friday, time for an off the wall topic.

    Spontaineous Human Combustion...

    Fact or fantasy?
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    Complete and total fantasy. It is physiologically impossible. Reported cases have been the result of incomplete and/or incompetent investigations.

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    I saw it in the Enquirer......... It's possible!!

    (Plus CSI did it too)

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    It's possible, but very highly unlikely, according to my chemistry teacher

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    Discover channel did a show on it a few years back. I remeber one of the cases in which someone "spontaineously combusted" they were standing next to a birthday cake with burning candles. Hmmmmmmm...

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    Originally posted by rblack06
    It's possible, but very highly unlikely, according to my chemistry teacher
    Have your chemistry teacher explain to you how it is "possible" and post it here.

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    The last rational explanation I heard was that there is always an external source of ignition and that body fat burns like candle wax in a clothing or upholstery "wick".

    Is this still an accepted view, or are the facts of the "newsworthy" cases pretty well skewed by the time they get to the TV?
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    Look at this logically. When you have a pig roast, the pig does not burst into flames. It roasts over an external heat source. The fats and other liquids are burning and are eventually consumed. At that point, charring would occur.

    Yes, it is a very rudimentary, but accurate, explanation.

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    Yes--

    Beans or Firehouse Chili--

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    Other types of biomass have been proven to spontaineously combust, I was just at a grain bin fire yesterday. It was filled with 3 semi loads of corn gluten, a livestock feed pellet material.

    If it has to much water content (someting like 20%) it will spontainiously combust do to a chemical proccess (fermentation?).

    Can animals and humans suffer a similar fate?

    The truth is out there...

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    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Mmmm I dunno. A couple of weeks ago we had a lady call here to the Rescue Centre with a story that she had some kind of "bio-gas flowing from her neck and head." She had experienced this a few times already and apparently called to EHS at least once.

    Could this have been an example of pre-ignition? If any one wants to hear the tape, email or PM me and I'll send you a link and you can judge for yourself. By the way, this is a true story, and it is a full recording of the conversation between the Controller on duty and the Caller. This is just one of several examples of some of the non-SAR calls we get.
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    Originally posted by MalahatTwo7
    Mmmm I dunno. A couple of weeks ago we had a lady call here to the Rescue Centre with a story that she had some kind of "bio-gas flowing from her neck and head." She had experienced this a few times already and apparently called to EHS at least once.

    Could this have been an example of pre-ignition? If any one wants to hear the tape, email or PM me and I'll send you a link and you can judge for yourself. By the way, this is a true story, and it is a full recording of the conversation between the Controller on duty and the Caller. This is just one of several examples of some of the non-SAR calls we get.
    I have no doubt that it is a true story. Did anyone give any consideration to the possibility of her being nuts?

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    Red face Well it happens all the time here in the UK!!!!!

    Guess..someone gets a job trying ta figure it out..

    So.....all the time we guess.....ain't so bad....


    Ta me?????????...load of Bollocks!!!!!

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    I was a fire investigator for several years with London Fire Brigade. We had a case once where an old lady just disappeared throught the chair and floorboards - her upper body and ankles were all that was left. She lived on her own and was a non-smoker. There was minimal damage other then the 'seat of origin' (sorry)! There was no obvious cause of ignition. I wanted to put this down to SHC but the Chief made me change it to death by careless disposal of somoking materials!

    London's investigators are highly trained full-time investigators who attend 5-6 working fires every day. As far as I could see SHC was the only possibility within the realms of my knowledge.

    Another fire (of interest) once involved a house that was suffering from 'poltergeists' activity! There were reports by the family (normal everday people) about strange things happening. This time - another fire - isolated from any cause. We even looked at the potential for the sun to reflect and magnify its rays - but no way. Very small point of origin, minimal damage - no obvious cause at all?

    Who knows!!

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    Default Batt 8?

    Mmmm??? Mr Grim or Batt18.............tell me more????
    Heard this one else where???

    Where in the LFB was we exactly?

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    Of course it is possible, haven't any of you seen that X-Files where the guy can make himself start on fire and not get hurt?

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    was that x-files or jack@$$????

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    Correct me if I am wrong (which I know you will) but spontaneous combustion is caused by "...the natural decomposition of living, or once living, material giving off a by-product of heat."

    It sounds possible because humans are "living material" but I think it's a bunch of crap. It's an "X-files" episode for sure.

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    Complete and total fantasy.
    While I agree, I remember one incident that REALLY got me wondering.

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    Originally posted by E229Lt


    While I agree, I remember one incident that REALLY got me wondering.
    Twice in one day?

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    The physical possibilities of spontaneous human combustion are remote. Not only is the body mostly water, but aside from fat tissue and methane gas, there isn't much that burns readily in a human body. To cremate a human body requires a temperature of 1600 degrees Fahrenheit for about two hours. To get a chemical reaction in a human body which would lead to ignition would require some doing.
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    'The scientific explanation -- the 'wick effect' -- proposes that in certain rare circumstances the human being can burn like a candle.'

    In August 1999, BBC TV broadcast in prime time a film in its prestigious science series 'QED', entitled Spontaneous Human Combustion.

    The film was ambitious both as science and as reporting, for it set out to debunk once and for all the centuries-old belief that, under some mysterious circumstances, humans can catch fire and be almost entirely consumed, even in the security of their own homes.

    Why is this an example of pseudoscience?

    Almost incredibly, the reporters who made the film and the scientists who took part in it, chose to ignore completely the fact that there are a number of recent, well-documented cases of people who have experienced or witnessed spontaneous human combustion at first hand and who lived to tell what happened. And the first-hand experience of these witnesses completely contradicts the key features of the 'scientific explanation' in every detail.

    First, there is the case of Fire Brigade Commander John Stacey, called to a house fire in Lambeth in 1967, who discovered Robert Bailey in the early stages of combustion and burning from inside his abdomen 'like a blow torch' in a derelict house where gas and electricity had been turned off and where there were no other sources of ignition.

    LINK TO ARTICLE HERE

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    Originally posted by E40FDNYL35
    The physical possibilities of spontaneous human combustion are remote. Not only is the body mostly water, but aside from fat tissue and methane gas, there isn't much that burns readily in a human body. To cremate a human body requires a temperature of 1600 degrees Fahrenheit for about two hours. To get a chemical reaction in a human body which would lead to ignition would require some doing.

    While the body does require EXTREME amounts of heat to burn down to almost nothing, it does not necessarily have to be 1600 degrees F, nor does it necessarily have to be burned for a 2 hour period. It depends on body mass, weight and gender. Larger bodies and those with a higher fat content are done first BEFORE the cremator is at it's highest temperature. This is because at a higher temp. the body may not burn properly if the heat is too high. The outside of the body can sear (when the fatty tissues burn), leaving other portions untouched. Some bodies can be done in just a little over an hour, while others can take over 2, it depends on the body make up. All bodies are put in the cremator inside a box, be it a casket or some other container; this is so the flames ignite the container before the body, causing a more even burn. It's a very interesting process to watch from start to finish, and I used to question why people would want to be burned upon dying, now I don't.

    Just a side note, if you think we have warped sense's of humor, go hang around a guy doing cremations all alone in the funeral home late at night We took someone in one night and we were having a coffee with the guy before we left to go do another pick up, he opened the cremator to check on the status of the body, and there was a small lump full of flame near the frontal portion of the cremator. He looked at me and said "See that lump right there?" I nodded; then he said "That's your brain ON fire
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    This is a constant problem for PFire23. She must be ever vigilant against this possiblity, because SHE'S SO DAMN HOT!!
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    From Batt18's link.

    The case of Jean Lucille Saffin

    In September 1982, a mentally handicapped London woman, Jeannie Saffin aged 61, burst into flames while sitting on a wooden Windsor chair in the kitchen of her home in Edmonton. Her father, who was seated at a nearby table, said he saw a flash of light out of the corner of his eye and turned to Jeannie to ask if she had seen it. He was astonished to find that she was enveloped in flames, mainly around her face and hands.


    "Psyhcos dont explode when sunlight hits them, I dont care how f'n crazy they are!"- George Cloony in the movie Dusk Till Dawn


    There is undeniably strange stuff that goes on in the world, but there has to a logical explanation, right?

    Maybe its funner to be left in the dark about such things.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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