1. #1
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    Default EAST COAST vs WEST COAST!

    Hello all,
    Just looking for some quick help! I am presenting a class on differences between east coast and west coast departments...and no, not just smooth vs fog! More or less operational/tactical differences...please post any sites or anything that can help me out! i need as soon as possible..thanks again!

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    Talking Here's one......

    The West Coast has Actors who think they are Governors.

    The East Coast has Governors who think they are Actors

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    If you do a search at Firehouse.com's forums, you'll see it discussed in the past. Possibly use "East West Coast" as your search terms.

    One difference is the basis of tradition in the fire departments. Not to say that West Coast FDs don't follow any traditions, but you have East Coast FDs that are older than some or all of the West Coast states.
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    Default 2 cents...

    Originally posted by Adze39
    If you do a search at Firehouse.com's forums, you'll see it discussed in the past. Possibly use "East West Coast" as your search terms.

    One difference is the basis of tradition in the fire departments. Not to say that West Coast FDs don't follow any traditions, but you have East Coast FDs that are older than some or all of the West Coast states.

    Want to make it clear that West Coast does follow traditions.
    But, I think you will see more West Coast department being
    as progressive as possible. Where the East deals with ice
    rescues, etc, we have week long fire storms, flooding and
    major riots.

    Also look at the ISO ratings. There are more Class 1
    departments in California. Does NOT make them better. They
    might be stronger in the areas of personnel, water supply
    and equipment. Some of the West Coast Class 1 departments
    in CA are Long Beach, Vernon, Glendale, Torrance, Anaheim,
    Santa Ana and LA city. Nevada- Las Vegas, Clark County and
    Fallon-Churchhill.

    Hope that helps out...

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    Default Re: 2 cents...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU

    Also look at the ISO ratings. There are more Class 1
    departments in California. Does NOT make them better. They
    might be stronger in the areas of personnel, water supply
    and equipment. Some of the West Coast Class 1 departments
    in CA are Long Beach, Vernon, Glendale, Torrance, Anaheim,
    Santa Ana and LA city. Nevada- Las Vegas, Clark County and
    Fallon-Churchhill.
    Yeah, but most departments I know out here don't care about their ISO rating. You have a lot of 3 to 5 departments out here that are really good departments, but they don't give a crap about improving their ISO rating.

    I guess those Class 1 FDs in CA have more hooks and cans on their engine than my FD! LOL Oh God, I can see an ISO battle coming up!!
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    Default No battle bro...

    Adze...come on now bro...I was just trying to
    throw out some mutual information to compare.

    I didnt say so-and-so was better then them or
    us, etc. No battle please.

    Just trying to give the guy something to go on...

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    East= Leather
    West=Wildland Fire

    Tust me West coast is very progressive, East coast stays with the tried and true tactics
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    Default MIDWEST

    ...Look to the left... Look to the right...Shake our heads and let out a hearty laugh..

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    California...It's a state of mind...

    I object *strongly* to the phrase the West Coast tends to be more "progressive." We like leather helmets, LA just doesn't seem to be able to part with Tillers or Wood ladders, things long gone from even a congested East city like Boston. You see just as much knuckleheadness on both coasts, probably just fewer examples on the West.

    And that's one of the major differences -- the East Coast developed many small communities. Especially in New England & Mid-Atlantic, you don't see a clear line between "city" and "country" -- my town has a few villages, then houses scattered at a pretty regular rate. Go out to California, you go tight-packed-houses to farm field instantly. Yeah, that's a broad characterization, but for the most part it holds true. Places I've been in California that resemble New England in development, suddenly start to get much more like New England in their fire service deployment (San Lorenzo Valley, parts of the Gold Country come to mind).

    That pattern affects FD staffing and deployment. You have fewer but bigger towns, more likely to be paid, and also having developed at a time people where more likely to want to pay for municipal services.

    There are definite cultural differences -- the West is more "let's get out of town" recreation oriented, so you don't have people as interested in staying home on the weekends i.e. less time to volunteer; you also have a generally fitter population and that carries through to a generally fitter fire service, too.

    I really think the differences largely come down to not tactics & tools, but staffing & deployment to make up for different geography and historical development trends. East Coast tends to be very congested big cities and lots of low density suburbs/rural areas; West Coast tends to be much more moderate in the cities don't get quite as congested, the 'burbs aren't as spread out, and rural is *rural*.

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    Default Re: No battle bro...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    Adze...come on now bro...I was just trying to
    throw out some mutual information to compare.

    I didnt say so-and-so was better then them or
    us, etc. No battle please.

    Just trying to give the guy something to go on...
    Brett,

    I know you weren't trying to say that, I was just trying to make the point clear.
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    Default

    I know if you say you need a tanker on the west side of the country you will see people look up and run for cover.

    If you ask for a tender on the eastern side, people look at you funny!

    I don't think it's just the coasts that are different, here in Missouri, you have the east side of the state calling for pumpers and the west side calling for engines.
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    Talking

    Let us not forget the West Coast has Cheffie.


    Dal
    You see just as much knuckleheadness on both coasts, probably just fewer examples on the West.
    That's because they keep hiding in the governor's office.

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    Default

    Originally posted by 4bugles
    I know if you say you need a tanker on the west side of the country you will see people look up and run for cover.

    If you ask for a tender on the eastern side, people look at you funny!

    I don't think it's just the coasts that are different, here in Missouri, you have the east side of the state calling for pumpers and the west side calling for engines.
    Amen to all points there Brother. Even "up here" we run into similar terminalogy hicups. This happens in particular if we are working with Forestry on a fire, then terms really get jumbled up. As you say "tanker" has double meanings. They duck, we drive. LOL
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    Originally posted by 4bugles
    I know if you say you need a tanker on the west side of the country you will see people look up and run for cover.

    If you ask for a tender on the eastern side, people look at you funny!

    I don't think it's just the coasts that are different, here in Missouri, you have the east side of the state calling for pumpers and the west side calling for engines.
    LOL, over the years I have worked with 4 kinds of "mud", a term that can mean many different things depending on where you are at.

    Good old wet dirt mud.

    Grey concrete mud.

    Smelly foul oil drilling mud (diesel fuel, bentinite and other ingreedients).

    And red mud that falls from the sky...

    Slurry is by far my favorite kind of mud, but it is also more expensive...
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    Why can't people compare apples to apples - and oranges to oranges?

    All you need to do is look at a map.

    The State of California is one of 3 states on the west coast, and the east coast is comprised of 12 states. Already a major difference in land area.

    Now - looking closer - the state of California occupies a swath of land that is roughly equivalent to New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia (not equal in total land area of the whole state- just in generally looking at the map).

    Now - lets look at all of the fire departments that are ISO Class 1.

    St. Louis, Missouri Pre 1964
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana 5/1/79
    Santa Ana, California 1/1/84
    Stockton, California 1/1/84
    Macon, Georgia 5/1/86
    Hialeah, Florida 5/1/86
    East Side FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    Lake Springfield FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    North Side FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    South Lawn FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    South Oak Knolls FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    South Side FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    Springfield, Illinois 9/1/88
    Woodside FD, Illinois 9/1/88
    Anaheim, California 11/1/88
    Beverly Hills, California 11/1/89
    Las Vegas, Nevada 5/1/90
    Vernon, California 11/1/90
    Greensboro, North Carolina 2/1/92
    Coral Gables, Florida 2/1/92
    Glendale, California 11/1/92
    Oak Lawn, Illinois 3/1/93
    Areadia, California 8/1/93
    Lisle-Woodridge FD, Illinois 12/1/93
    Clark-Co FD (Metro), Nevada 2/1/94
    Hartford, Connecticut 7/1/94
    Culver City, California 2/1/95
    Skokie, Illinois 9/1/95
    E. Bank Consol. FD, Louisiana 9/5/95
    Torrance, California 5/1/96
    Hoboken, New Jersey 7/1/96
    Fallon, Nevada 8/1/97
    Arlington Heights, Illinois 9/1/97
    Syracuse, New York 1/1/98
    Pembroke Pines, Florida 2/1/98
    Carleston, South Carolina 6/1/98
    Shreveport, Louisiana 7/6/98
    DuBois, Pennsylvania 10/1/98
    Plano, Texas 10/1/98
    Cambridge, Massachusetts 7/1/99
    Frisco, Texas 11/1/00
    Bossier City, Louisiana 12/11/00
    Milford, Connecticut 2/01/01
    E. Baton Rouge Parish FD, Louisiana 4/09/01

    A total of 43 departments are ISO Class 1, out of thousands. And 9 are from California. Woo Hoo -- what do you want a parade?
    ISO is a 'nicety' it's something that is nice to have, and it is of a great benefit to those that live in your response area - for it lowers their insurance premiums - but it does not equate- across the board to an effective firefighting force.

    From the Torrance CA website ( http://www.tfd.torrnet.com/iso.htm )Fire alarms
    Ten percent of the overall grading is based on how well the fire department receives fire alarms and dispatches its fire-fighting resources
    Engine companies
    Fifty percent of the overall grading is based on the number of engine companies and the amount of water a community needs to fight a fire. ISO reviews the distribution of fire companies throughout the area and checks that the fire department tests its pumps regularly and inventories each engine company's nozzles, hoses, breathing apparatus, and other equipment.

    ISO also reviews the fire-company records to determine:
    -type and extent of training provided to fire-company personnel
    -number of people who participate in training
    -firefighter response to emergencies
    -maintenance and testing of the fire department's equipment

    Water Supply
    Forty percent of the grading is based on the community's water supply. This part of the survey focuses on whether the community has sufficient water supply for fire suppression beyond daily maximum consumption. ISO surveys all components of the water supply system, including pumps, storage, and filtration. To determine the rate of flow the water mains provide, we observe fire-flow tests at representative locations in the community. Finally, we evaluate the distribution of fire hydrants.


    10 percent is how you are dispatched
    50 percent is actually based upon the FD
    40 percent is based upon water supply

    Only half is the burden of the FD - the other half is on the shoulders of your water dept/utility - and the entity that dispatches you.

    I don't see that as a 'grade' of how progressive a FD is.

    We had a saying in the Marine Corps -
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    Just my .02 cents ......
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    We are a Class 6(according to our estimations) but yet people in the area have said we are one of the best departments around the area but yet we really dont strive for the ISO points...if we happen to get em then fine..if not then thats fine too.Most people around here wouldnt know an ISO rating from a hole in the ground...all they are really concerned about is responding to thier incidents.
    Our MA company is a Class 8 I believe and youd be VERY lucky if they DID respond. LOL

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    Talking Definitions...............

    Originally posted by 4bugles
    I know if you say you need a tanker on the west side of the country you will see people look up and run for cover.

    If you ask for a tender on the eastern side, people look at you funny!
    That's easy... A Tanker brings water to a Fire, A Tender carries water for a steam locomotive......
    Last edited by hwoods; 10-11-2003 at 04:21 PM.
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    posted by Hwoods..
    That's easy... A Tanker brings water to a Fire, A Tender carries water for a steam locomotive......
    or..

    A tanker is a large mug for beer.

    A tender is a deep fried piece of boneless chicken served with a dipping sauce as a munchie to go with the beer!

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    Talking Close, but no El Producto.........

    My Funkin' Wagnalls say the Beer thing is a Tankard..... Stay Safe....
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    We are a Class 6(according to our estimations) but yet people in the area have said we are one of the best departments around the area but yet we really dont strive for the ISO points...if we happen to get em then fine..if not then thats fine too.
    No offense, but going by the apparatus and manpower listed on your website, I seriously doubt you're anywhere near a class 6 department.

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    West Coast= 75% of calls are EMS. ALS engines are everywhere.

    East Coast= EMS calls are for ambulances. ALS engines... (isn't Al the engineer on B-shift)

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    A class 6 by your "estimations"------ huh--
    so thats how it works--- I "estimated" our little FD a one---- but thatgoldanged bull headed rater from ISO said we wuz jest a lowly 4
    Guess he took away points fur our painted helmets.

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    Default Re: Close, but no El Producto.........

    Originally posted by hwoods
    My Funkin' Wagnalls say the Beer thing is a Tankard..... Stay Safe....
    in New Englandspeak..that would be a "tankahd" and a "tendah"... as in

    "I'll have the 32 Ounce "tankahd" of Sam Adams Octobahfest Ale and an "ordah" of the chicken "tendahs" with with honey mustahd dipping sauce on the side"..

    Damn...now I'm hungry and thirsty...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Gotta disagree with mr Bou on one of his statments bouts riots being a West coast problem--- The North East has had more than its fair share--- maybe not lately-but its something always apeeking around thee corner.

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    Talking Oh Boy................

    Ron, ROTFLMAO......... And, are you on the Towah Laddah today? Stay Safe....
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