View Poll Results: What air-packs is everyone buying?

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  • 2216 psi - 30 minute bottles

    7 17.95%
  • 4500 psi - 30 minute bottles

    15 38.46%
  • 4500 psi - 45 minute bottles

    12 30.77%
  • 4500 psi - 60 minute bottles

    5 12.82%
  1. #1
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    Question 4500 psi or 2216 psi

    Our small department is buying 10 new air-packs and extra bottles. We are trying to determine if we should buy Scott 2216 psi with 30 minute bottles, or Scott 4500 psi with 45 minute bottles. I'm looking for any feedback that you may have. Thanks.

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    Our department uses the Scott 2216 bottles. I personally wish that we had the 4500 (45 minutes).

    Also, we use the heavy steel bottles. If we had to choose again, I would ask for the composite bottles. These are so much lighter.

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    We do not use scotts, we use interspiro's with 4500 and 45 minutes. We had tested the scotts and we liked them also, but the powers that be decided to go the other way. With the light weight units now days it is nice to have the high pressure and more time to work in the enviroment. We won't go back to the 2216 for that reason, and that reason alone.

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    We are also getting new SCBAs. I am pretty sure we are going with Drager 4500psi 60 minute wrap bottles.

    Not cheap, but they should last a long time. Lifetime waranty on many parts.

    We want the 60 minute bottles because we are a small department that has to make the most of our initial "sprint" at a fire. We often dont have enough personel for a switch off at 20 or 30 minutes, we need to stick to it, and if we can get it done on a 60 minute cylender, then we should have the mutual aid there by then.
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    I myself love the 4500 45 min bottles, however that being said you have to look at a few things. The first being a fill station, do you have the capability to fill the 4500 psi bottles? Also you have to adjust your rehab time, in my dept after one bottle you go straight to rehab and stay unless its really bad and there is no choice due to a lack of manpower. You just have to really take a hard look at your depts capabilities, before you make the decisions.

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    4500 30 minute scotts. Low profile, light in weight. We decided against the 45 or 60 minute packs because of the larger size. The 45's were in contention, but we really don't want our firefighters inside for that long. a 30 minute cylinder should supply a solid 20 minutes, after that, its time to reevaluate the situation.

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    We use the 4500 (30 min) bottles for firefighting. Haz-Mat uses the 4500 (60 min) bottles, so that they have time to de-con and get out of thier suits while still on air.
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    Our Department uses a few different kind of airpacks all of our new ones are 2216 MSA bottles, All of the other ones are the old ones. The MSA ones are wrapped very light, there all in our initial trucks, all the old ones are in like our other apparatus that wouldnt see a structure much where you may need to go in like our tanker.
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    The problem with carbon wrapped cylinders is that they are damaged by abrasion much, much easier. One scrape down to the carbon layer and they are condemned. It doesn't take much, dragging out a downed firefighter during a drill will do it. Remember, 80% of the strength of the cylinder is in the carbon fiber wrap (the aluminum inner shell is the other 20%. Also, the cylinders only have a life of 15 years with pressure testing every 5 years.
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    We started switching from 2216 to 4500/45min bottles in the mid-90's. It was in response to a house fire in which 3 FF's ran out of air searching for a child. They did make the save, but all went to the hospital for smoke inhalation. After that we decided we needed longer lasting bottles and decided to go with 45 minute bottles.
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    Default More info

    We currently have 8 Scott 2.2 models. We like them a lot, but they have steel bottles and are very heavy. We are leaning toward 2216 psi so that the rest of our bottles will be compatable with the new packs. If we go to 4500 psi, only the new bottles can be used. I'd personally like to go to a 45 minute bottle for that little extra time inside, but is this really needed? Does the extra time outweigh the interoperability with our other packs?

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    Thumbs up

    we just switched to the scott composite bottles. havent heard any complaints yet.

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    Using the MSA Extreeme SCBA since 1998 we steadily changed over the whole department over since about 2001. They are carbon fiber bottles and they are so much lighter than the old steel ones, us old people can appreciate them ALOT more than our new ones.Thye are rated at 30 minutes and seem to work well for us, they replaced ol Scott 2.2's from the 1970's era.
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    Another advantage of high pressure packs is the smaller bottle size which makes for a reduced profile.
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    We use 2216 30min for firefighting and 4500 60 min for HAZMAT.
    Our thought is you don't need to be in a fire for more than 30 minutes, or at least thats what the guy with all the bugles says.
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    My department switched to the 4500-30 minute bottles about a year ago. There are a lot of considerations before you make the switch. The biggest one has already been stated, can your compressor fill them. Our compressor could, it takes a while, but we can live with it because we bought a booster pump for the system. The booster pump will take a cascade bottle down to 200psi, while filling a bottle. Another thing to consider is your air powered tools. We kept a few 2216 bottles until we can replace the regulators on our chisels and other air operated equipment. One other cost item to remember is if you have the packs mounted in your seats, you will have to change out the clips.

    Our research showed that the 4500 system is a little more versatile than the 2216's. If we would ever decide to go to 45 or 60 minute bottles, all we have to do is move a strap. The carbon bottles are holding up pretty good so far. You will have to "retrain" people that they are a little more fragile than a steel bottle, so they take a little more precaution when placing them on the ground and things like that. We don't modify our trainings though, if they have to drag someone they still do it.
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    We went with 45min 4500 you can half fill them and still be the same as a 30min 2216, manufacture doesn,t matter. There are only a couple bottle builders.

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    We damaged a Scott Carbon 2216 during training. It was on a dummy and it was dragged on the floor or something. It scuffed it all up and we cut it in half to show everyone just how thin the sides of the bottles are.

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    Default Compressor strength

    The department that fills our bottles is buying a new cascade system that will fill the 45 minute and 60 bottles. Is this process for 45 and 60 minute bottles slower than for 2216psi?

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    Default Re: Compressor strength

    Originally posted by LFDAC21
    The department that fills our bottles is buying a new cascade system that will fill the 45 minute and 60 bottles. Is this process for 45 and 60 minute bottles slower than for 2216psi?
    If the two systems filled at the same rate of PSI/second, then yes it would take a little longer. Are you changing the number of bottles you can fill at once? Are you going to be using an air compressor to fill the bottles or just the cascade system?
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  22. #22
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    Hey all,

    I would recommend the scott 4500 (30 Min.) Bottle. The Kevlar and new Carbon composite bottles are lighter weight and can be changed out between the scott 4.5 harness and the new scott airpak 50 harness.

    They might be a bit more expensive, but the reduced profile and reduced weight is going to make a big difference in your performance. The new carbon cylinders are only 6.9 lbs. empty. Imagine climbing an 80 story building wearing a ba and carrying two spares to the staging area!! Weight is a big difference.

    Don't be a cheap, when it comes to safety and modern technology. The fire service is rapidly becoming more technically advance. Not always for the better, haha.

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