1. #1
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    Default Best Air Pak of the late 70s-Early 80s?

    Here is a topic for the more mature members...

    I am a young blood in the fire service when compared to most of my peers. But, that doesnt mean that I have never had the chance to use some golden oldies.

    I am trying to date when the Scott Airpak 2 was prominant. What years were they made, what year did they first arive?



    I am on a small rural Montana department, these are our front line SCBAs with the exception of 4 MSA Ultralight IIs. We have a FEMA grant comeing to update these units... Thank GOD!!!

    Dont get me wrong, it was neat to experience the best that the 70s (I think) had to offer, but I am excited on getting cought up technology wise.

    So, another part of the thread, what was the competition for this old Scott Air Pak 2?

    Thanks
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    Don't know the year of the Scott pack, we never used them. The major competition was more than likely MSA. We wore the same MSA harness' for more than 35+ years. We used the demand regulators and steel cylinders until around 1986-87, when we went to the light air cylinders and few years later upgraded the harness' regulator to positive pressure. Those damn MSA harness' just plain wouldn't die. Just thought I'd add that when I first started in the fire service we were actually trained in the old chest mounted Chemox canister masks while in the academy.
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 10-16-2003 at 05:17 PM.

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    I don't have any idea when they were introduced. I do know you can find two of them in our light rescue. They're still in use as backup sets for our 6 MSAs but will be permanently retired when our new FIRE act-funded Survivairs arrive.

    We've actually got several of these packs, but only keep two in service. The others are used as props in training classes.

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    One thing I remember about em is that they seemed to have a rounder face mask. My face is a little more narrow. I almost always had some air leaking here and there. Thank GOD for progress , cause my face never got any fatter.
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    From What I gather the original Scott Air Pak (I) was introduced in 1945 after the Scott Aviation engineers watched a working fire across the street and were appauled that the firemen had to eat so much smoke. They adapted some of their aviation breathing gear to work. I would love to see an original Scott Air Pak.

    There were many SCBA type devices before that, but I think that in the late 40s is when the revolution of modern SCBAs realy took off.

    The Scott Air Pak II above is the successor to the Air Pak I. Then I believe the mask mounted regulator Scotts came out, but I am not sure when.

    I am guessing that the Air Pak II was a 60' or so model, maybe the Scott 2.2 was early 80s???

    Soctt 2.2, first Scott with mask mounted regulator I believe.




    It would be an interesting website (or book) IMO to detail the history of the SCBA, from the old socks you wet and pulled over you head to the rubber bladders of air to the dangerous rebreathers to the modern compressed air units to the future of SCBAs.

    I would read it anyways...
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    From looking at the first picture, we had some of those style packs when I started in 1985 and I was told by some of the 30 year veterans that these were brand new 30 years ago. If thats the case, than your looking at a 48year old pack. Time to upgrade.
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    Originally posted by Ltmdepas3280
    From looking at the first picture, we had some of those style packs when I started in 1985 and I was told by some of the 30 year veterans that these were brand new 30 years ago. If thats the case, than your looking at a 48year old pack. Time to upgrade.
    Good God NO!!! That would break with tradtion...

    Seriously, we should be announced any day now for a Fire Act Grant to do just that, questions sent and answered, 1199A updated and accepted.

    I would not doubt for a minute that those are 40+ years old, I should just email Scott and get some history, I did find this neat website that has a lot of museum history.

    http://www.jersey.net/~dwayne/history1.htm

    Here is the SCBA section.

    http://www.jersey.net/~dwayne/hist7e.htm

    LOL, our department is a live action museum in many sences of the word, very few <30 members (5 of 30) my self included, some very old gear, SCBAs for example, and a lot of traditional sticks in the mud.

    I can already hear it now. "I have been useing these SCBAs for 30 years, I now every screw and nut, I can use them upside down submerged in water blindfolded, and now you want me to learn a NEW AIR PACK!!!!"

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Default Old Scotts

    Our Dept. has had Scotts from the Scott 1.The Scott 1's came into being shortly after WW2.I joined in late '68 and worked in the 1's until we replaced them with the Scott 2 in 74-75 as I remember.Then came the Pressure switch upgrade in the early 80's.Then it was the 2.2 wire frame in the Early 90's with the aluminum bottle, what a relief from the steels.Then to the AP50 with aluminum,now AP50 intergrated with Carbon.My personal pack is a wire frame 4.5 Carbon. I'll try to research the exact release dates but the 2 and 2A are obsolete/low flow units.T.C.

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    Default Re: Old Scotts

    Originally posted by Rescue101
    Our Dept. has had Scotts from the Scott 1.The Scott 1's came into being shortly after WW2.I joined in late '68 and worked in the 1's until we replaced them with the Scott 2 in 74-75 as I remember.Then came the Pressure switch upgrade in the early 80's.Then it was the 2.2 wire frame in the Early 90's with the aluminum bottle, what a relief from the steels.Then to the AP50 with aluminum,now AP50 intergrated with Carbon.My personal pack is a wire frame 4.5 Carbon. I'll try to research the exact release dates but the 2 and 2A are obsolete/low flow units.T.C.
    Thanks a bunch. What were the Scot 1s like? Did they look similar to the Scott 2s? Did they give you a sence of confidence? What is you impression as to the evolution of SCBAs? How do the older 1 and 2s compare to the Carbon bottle fifys?

    I know what you mean about obsolete/low flow units. LOL, there was one guy we had that could suck air so har with a Scott 2 that the low air bell would go off! He still had goo tank pressure, he was just inhaleing so hard that the bell would ding. He was a big big guy though, 6'6" and well over 300lbs. He coud get 10 or less minutes out of a 30 minute bottle.

    I sure will miss that sickly ring a ding sound when my bottles run out.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    I started in 1976 and our dept was using the Scott II. These were non-positive pressure units with aluminum (not composite) cylinders. We also had 4 of the original Scott units. One had an original hydro-date from the late 1940s. We started buying positive pressure units around 1980.

    The original Scotts were a pain to wear. The mask had a 6 point "harness" that never seemed to seal properly. The mask was also a bit "rounder" than the others. The harness for the cylinder and regulator was not well designed and if I remember correctly, required the user to thread the straps through the buckles. This didn't exactly make for rapid donning.

    The unit shown in the first picture is one of the "newer" positive pressure units. We didn't start seeing those until the late 70's and early 80's. One problem we had with the Scott II was with the regulator. Scott used a very thin diaphram that was prone to tear. Niosh issued an alert following a LLOD and we discovered that our units had tears in the diaphrams just like those used by the deceased firefighters. Scott redesigned several parts of the regulators and sent us recall kits for every mask that we had.

    As for competitors, the only ones that I every ran into in the late 70's were MSA and Survivair. Of the two, I preferred MSA due to its durability and ease of maintainance. I didn't like the Survivair due to the silicone facepiece (slid around on my face when hot)and the amount of maintainance that they seemed to require. Just my opinion. I know other departments that loved them.

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    Default Re: Best Air Pak of the late 70s-Early 80s?

    Originally posted by SamsonFCDES

    I am on a small rural Montana department, these are our front line SCBAs with the exception of 4 MSA Ultralight IIs. We have a FEMA grant comeing to update these units... Thank GOD!!!

    Congratulations! We got turned down on our grant to replace 6 of these same units and 20 steel Scott bottles
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

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    Man, I loved those packs! I can remember upgrading to those around 1988. Prior to 1988 we had the Scott's without the positive pressure switch option. Through testing, found that we could get about 10feet deep in a pool with them and still have it working (don't ask why). Around 1991 or 92, we started converting to Survivair from these and are now using the Survivair Panthers.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    The Scott I was very similar to the Scott 2. It had a round regulator with a guage that was actually esaier to see than the one on the Scott 2. It was heavy as hell, as every piece of it was steel. I used them in the mid-70's and I remember them being about 40 pounds. I also remember using the old, old facepiece a couple of times, the one with two lenses, one over each eye, as opposed to the single lens.

    That spider harness was really a pain. Imagine a teenage GWCFI, with 70's disco hair putting one of those bad boys on. I blame my baldness today on the eight skillion times I ripped hair out of my head tightening that thing up.

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    George .......gotta love that mental picture..........but I can relate to the old Scotts (Airpak II)and how the hairectomy was always so much fun ! Moe, maybe you should have traded the Excursion in for some SCBA !
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    Originally posted by Weruj1
    Moe, maybe you should have traded the Excursion in for some SCBA !
    Maybe, but then we couldn't ridicule 200's "cop car"
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

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    LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!! we can breathe ...........but you guys can drive !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    I had the chance to use the SCOTT II in the late 80's before the positive pressure switch. They killed your shoulders something fierce. I also hated the pull straps going backwards. It made it hard to put on in the jump seat. The spider straps on the mask were already mentioned but the snuffaluffikis hose was great for cheating. Another problem with the mask was that if the coil in the hose was broken you could kink the hose.
    We changed to 4.5 hour packs in 1989. The regulators were different from packs now. There was a red purge value on the side of the regulator you had to pull to start the flow or you had to blow into them to start them. If you didn't do that you could suck all you wanted but you would get nothing.
    I remember a SCOTT pack my father had as chief. It was known as an officer’s pack in my department. I don't know what the real name for it was. It was a 20-min pack with only 1 strap on it. It hung sideways on your back. I don't no the point behind it but we had a guy with a hump on his back and it worked well for him.

    Stay Safe
    Last edited by XCAPT1; 10-20-2003 at 03:10 AM.

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    I remember a SCOTT pack my father had as chief. It was known as an officer’s pack in my department. I don't know what the real name for it was. It was a 20-min pack with only 1 strap on it. It hung sideways on your back. I don't no the point behind it but we had a guy with a hump on his back and it worked well for him.
    It was called a Sling Pak. That bottle was only good for about 10 minutes worth of air. Basically, it always seemed to me to be a totally useless piece of equipment.

    Any of you old guys out there remember the Chem Ox? Or the MSA Cannister mask?

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    I actually have one of these sling/officer packs buried somewhere in my garage! I got it several years ago from a pack-rat of a retired fireman who told me he had liberated it from a 40-something American LaFrance pumper as they hauled it away to the junkyard. He didn't remember what year he'd snatched it, but the last hydro date on the bottle is '68 or something like that!

    I always meant to sell it on EBay, but the postage would probably be outrageous. Oh well, I guess I'll just drop it by our Fire Museum next shift! Wish he'd snatched the Engine instead of an old air pack!
    Last edited by Firebraun; 10-21-2003 at 01:37 AM.
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    We cleaned out our storage the other day and came across one of those sling SCBAs. Beats me if they are worth anything? Might be a good fundraser for the department, selling old school stuff on ebay.

    Is it leagal to sell SCBAs like that? What if some idiot dies while pretending to be a space cadet or some BS like that?

    We have a lot of old bottles which were donated to us by an oil field company. They are hodro dated 1974. Is it legal to sell them as is or would we have to hydrotest them first and then sell them.

    We are going to keep one of the Scott 2s for a display case of our old school gear.

    Our vendor told us he didnt want them on trade because he could not sell them to a fire service entitiy. No where near specs these days.

    Maybe I will talk the chief out of one so I can go diveing in swimmming pools...
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    I don't know the legalities of selling air packs, but you're probably right in thinking it might not be a good idea for liability reasons.

    I have heard from some cop-types that meth lab operators like to use 'em. If one ever turns up stolen from a rig, that's probably where it would end up. I highly doubt that someone who had an air pack fail during that type of use would be likely to sue, so if you're looking to raise some funds, go down to "that part of town" and sell it out of the trunk of your car for cash! (That's a joke, guys. Save the flaming for something deserving!)
    Fire service survival tips:
    1) Cook at 350...
    2) Pump at 150...
    3) When in doubt, isolate and deny entry...
    4) When in trouble, claim lack of adult supervision.

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    All you guys that are upgrading to newer SCBA's are just throwing your old Scott 2's away???....when theres some of us poor companies that desperately need some???....
    Why not donate a few of those old sling-paks and Scott 2's or 2a's to us??...We could REALLY use those since we are VERY low budgeted(around 5000 after insurances is what we hafta work with).

    Right now we only have TWO complete sets of Scott 2a's on our engine..the other 4 are just sling-paks...with NO spares to be had.

    Were looking for at least 2 more Scott 2a,s to complete our SCBA system on our pumper along with a spare bottle for each one and about 4 sling-paks with spares would be magnificent! :-D
    Wed be more than happy to take those off your hands...

    Stay Safe!

    Donna C
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    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

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    Originally posted by July36
    All you guys that are upgrading to newer SCBA's are just throwing your old Scott 2's away???....when theres some of us poor companies that desperately need some???....
    Why not donate a few of those old sling-paks and Scott 2's or 2a's to us??...We could REALLY use those since we are VERY low budgeted(around 5000 after insurances is what we hafta work with).

    Right now we only have TWO complete sets of Scott 2a's on our engine..the other 4 are just sling-paks...with NO spares to be had.

    Were looking for at least 2 more Scott 2a,s to complete our SCBA system on our pumper along with a spare bottle for each one and about 4 sling-paks with spares would be magnificent! :-D
    Wed be more than happy to take those off your hands...

    Stay Safe!

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ
    Garbage picking is very unbecoming for a FD. You are doing a disservice to your FD by putting them in sub-standard equipment that is arguably not OSHA approved. They are safer lobbing water through the windows.

    I'll bet your cops have good equipment. I'll bet the garbage men are well-equipped. You should be too. It's mind-boggling to me how the fire service has developed a culture that causes us, out of a sense of false nobility, to needlessly risk our lives with garbage on our backs to save someone's life who isn't willing to pay a fair price for it.

    Tell the people that you protect that they have a choice. They can pony up and give the people who risk their lives to protect theirs the tools to do the job right or you are going to do the only safe thing and stay outside. What do you tell the little girl at her daddy's funeral...Your daddy died because he was wearing a 40 year-old airpack to save a building?

    I mean no disrespect for your FD or your members. They have a tremendous sense of civic responsibility and bravery, but you have to take a good look at what you are risking.

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    I would agree with George here, you can do much much better then our condemed Scott 2 packs. An SCBA maintenace guy from a safety company near us was freaked out that we were still useing them. He said that we were nuts and agreed that it was a very good idea to replace them, grant or no grant. They are turely worn out and obsolete.

    They are friggin dangerous at this point, I dont think that our district board would even consider giveing them to somebody planning on interior attack with them. They dont want to get anybody killed.

    Try this website.

    http://www.helpingourown.com/

    Another option is to cantact some or local vendors. There are probly a lot more modern SCBAs being traded off theses days as more grants are annouced.

    I would guess that Helping Our Own would have a decent list of these usable SCBAs that have been freed up by the grants this season.

    A local VFD here in MT contacted a local vendor. The vendor has just sold a bunch of SCBAs to the Park Service, and he had 75 MSA Ultra 2s on hand. The small VFD contacted him and he agreed to donate 10 units if they would give him future buisness and pay for the hyro test and routien maintenace. They got some older but useable SCBAs for under a 1000 dollars when it was all said and done.

    Look around, local vendors are much more likely to give you a hand if you give them buisness. They useualy are a part of the fire service themselves and they do try to watch out for FDs while they make their liveing. At least that is how our vendors are. If they didnt conduct themselves that way, they wouldnt have our bisness for long.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

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    Oh, and fill out all the grants you can find.

    Find your nearest Foundation search library and get to work with that pen.

    Did you fill out a Fire Act Grant?
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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