Thread: New Pumper

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    Default New Pumper

    My Dept. is looking into purchasing a new apparatus and I am looking for anyone who has any good or bad experiences with Smeal or Ferrara.
    I know there may be better manufacturers out there, but to get to them we need to have the justification. Any information would be appreciated!

    Eng. National City Fire

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    I can only say that Ferrara was in 2years ago when we spec'd out our Engine/Rescue. The sales person was very abrasive to the point that all he wanted to do was down every other comapny for various reasons. Needless to say after 10 minutes of his tirade we excused him promptly. Smeal has sold a few vehicles in the area and the folks that have them like them. Don't think they make their own chassis though, what I have seen has been spartan chassis's.

    What do you mean that to get other manufacturers you need to justify them first? Not with you there, unless you mean that you need to show whomever that the others are crappy and you need to justify the means for more money, which doesn't justify anything when it comes to appparatus. Build the truck with your people first then seek manufacturers that can build it. Do not take the words no from companies. Either they build it your way, or another will.


    STILL STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    There are alot of choices depending on what type of unit you department is out for bid on. Be careful on not to judge a company by the sales person, but on the quality of aparatus and service the OEM can provide. If your department is looking for a complete custom builder check into Seagrave, Sutphen, Crimson, E-one, Pierce, KME, American LaFrance to name a few of the other majors. Smeal does not have there own chassis, orangebuster is right they build on Spartan chassis. Definiatly write your spec as to what the department need and wants are. Check into the The Apparatus Architect columes they have some great insight in the bid process. Look for justification of other builders buy how their porducts preform. FDNY look to Seagrave for most of there apparatus. Everyone has there preference, but look past the preference to how does it preform and hold up. Just some of my opinions not looking to get crusified.

    We run a Supthen custome, I have run ALF's, Seagrave's, E-One's, and Pierce's. They all build quility products and everyone has skeletons in the closets.

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    Certainly don't judge a manufacturer by the sales rep. We recently took delivery of a Ferrara quint, and are very impressed with the whole product. We have the Igniter 8 man cab, which we all liked over the Spartan and E-One Cyclone. The workmanship is #1 and our sales rep is just phenomenal(sp). Alot of departments around here run Smeals, and all have had good things to say about them.

    -Nick

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    Thanks for the feedback. Are city is going off a C.I.P from 4 years ago and only budgeted $280,000. We are a small dept. of two stations and run a quint and two pumpers. We are averaging around 5000 calls a year and both front line pumpers (89 SEGRAVE AND 91 BECK) have over a hundered thousand miles. Are one reserve is an 82 Lefrance and it has almost 90,000 miles. We need a pumper that is dependable and not prone to being in the shop. I understand that we can choose the pump, engine, and transmission that we want, and I know there are some quality products available with whomever we decide to go with. But there are things like craftmanship and just little gremlins that people have in their apparatus that we would love to know about and hopefully avaoid. So far all the other departments that we have contacted in and around San Diego county have spent well over $300,000 for their new rigs and we need to justify the extra expence to our city council in order to get a quality product.

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    Originally posted by orangebuster
    I can only say that Ferrara was in 2years ago when we spec'd out our Engine/Rescue. The sales person was very abrasive to the point that all he wanted to do was down every other comapny for various reasons. Needless to say after 10 minutes of his tirade we excused him promptly. Smeal has sold a few vehicles in the area and the folks that have them like them. Don't think they make their own chassis though, what I have seen has been spartan chassis's.
    Contact the mfg "We have $250000 burning a hole in our pocket and we are going to order an new truck within the next 90 days. We are very interested in looking at your truck. The salesman that called on us is not one we are going to work with. Do you want our business? Who from your organization is going to work us?"

    If they have a POS sales man they will want to know about it and the standard society approach of ignoring a problem rather than correcting it is BS. Show some backbone. You buy 2nd best to avoid confrontation or avoid hurting some POS salesman's feelings???

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    Originally posted by neiowa


    If they have a POS sales man they will want to know about it and the standard society approach of ignoring a problem rather than correcting it is BS.
    Absolutly, I'm sure they wolud love to hear that sort of feedback.

    Incidently, I was on Ferrara's website earlier, they have a couple new "demo's" in production right now that are in your price range. Smeal also seems to always have a few new demos in that range.

    -Nick

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    Seagrave does make a pumper on a commercial chassis they have two demos available there is more info on their website or contact your local dealer.
    http//www.seagrave.com/Demo_Units/demo_units.html
    Last edited by nrz2334; 10-29-2003 at 08:14 PM.
    nrz2334
    Just my view

    I would rather push my Seagrave than drive your Pierce!!

    TNT Rescue The Best!!!!!!!

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    Uh! We went the route you suggested above and to our suprise we never got phone calls returned within a month. Granted if they wanted our business they would have called, and yes they are going to want to know about their sales proffesional, but for some reason they never got back to us, and as for going to buy the 2nd best engine instead that would be wrong thinking.

    Look, there are companies out there that will work hard for you. It just happens that Ferrara did not do that for us on that occasion. Currently we are specing out new engine, and you can bet you ***** that we will not contact them again. The company that got the 400k job for us is still working for us, as are companies that did not get the job, just so they can keep their feet in the door. That I admire. I do not admire companies that send out a proffesional rep, get calls to them telling them that the proffesional rep they sent is not going to work with us because of our choice and with the explanation as to why, and stating that we would appreciate it if you sent someone else or contact us, with no response.

    By the way, Seagrave, Smeal, 4-guys, and Pierce are in you range of money you want to spend, and all on custom cabs.


    STILL STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    We bought a Smeal pumper last year. I have only good things to say about it. It has been very reliable. The workmanship is great. The sales staff was easy to work with. Lots of companies make fine fire apparatus, Smeal is certainly a good one. Our engine has a HME 6 man cab, a/c, 350 hp engine, 1500 gpm pump, 1000 gal. tank, hyd. generator, hyd. ladder rack and more and cost $267,000. Look for a pic on there web site under recent deliveries, Hunterdale Vol. Fire Dept. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by hvfd507; 10-29-2003 at 11:33 PM.

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    Default new pumper

    I am Ferrara's new sales manager for Southern California and like a previous post please do not judge a company by the salesman. It is sad, but there are a few "used car salesman" out there in our industry. I would love to send you any information you would like on our product. We do make our own chassis or we will build on any commercial chassis (IE Spartan, HME, etc...) We do have a West Coast demo pumper in Sacramento that is going for $294,568.00. Please feel free to e-mail me at jshabro@adelphia.net if you want more information. I am out of Murrieta, CA. not to far from your department.

    Ed

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    Our department just recently got an HME ahrensfox .

    It looks to be a solid well built truck . The price came out to rougly $215,000.00
    Here are some specs on the unit.....

    2003 hme ahrensfox stainless rescue pumper
    HME 1871 p2 6 man cab/chassis (5 scba)
    Hale qmax 175 1750 gpm pump
    900 gallon poly tank
    Top mount pump
    450hp cummins diesel engine
    allison automatic transmission


    We looked at about 6 other manufacturers including Sutphen , E-one , Pierce , Seagrave , Central States and Smeal but this place had the best "bang for the buck"

    Here is a pic


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    Originally posted by NickSBFD6
    Certainly don't judge a manufacturer by the sales rep. We recently took delivery of a Ferrara quint, and are very impressed with the whole product. We have the Igniter 8 man cab, which we all liked over the Spartan and E-One Cyclone. The workmanship is #1 and our sales rep is just phenomenal(sp). Alot of departments around here run Smeals, and all have had good things to say about them.

    -Nick
    Sorry but this is one of the dumbest view points I've ever seen. With a large company like E-one, Ferrara, Smeal, etc., the sales rep is who you will have to rely on to get response from the manufacturer. Not only that, but the sales rep should be an extension of the company who buiilds your truck. If the guy/girl is a jerk, what kind of company are they representing? You also have to rely on their character to tell you the truth. Do you want to end up in a pre-construction meeting and find out that you've signed a contract with a guy who won't stand behind their word?

    I'm a sales rep for a fire truck mfr myself and that's the expectation I place on myself. You should expect and receive the best you can get. Don't bend over for some moron who doesn't respect the customer. My $.02, Take it or leave it.

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    While I don't want to be as harsh as 1200vfr, I have to agree to a point. What I think Nick was saying was basically the quality of the rep doesn't necessarily equal the quality of the truck they sell.

    That's a big statement to make, though, because you have to wonder how good the company and truck can be if they allow morons to work for them.

    More importantly, the local dealer/rep IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT if you buy from one of the big company's. I strongly agree with 1200vfr. We got burned badly on this one. After 2 years, only now are we starting to see some improvement... and that was ONLY because of a switch to a different regional dealer.

    No truck arrives perfect and/or without any future problems. If you want to buy a truck because it looks nice, or someone in Maine says it's great... that's your perogative. We've learned the hard way, though, that you really need to put a great deal into what you're going to get after sign on the dotted line.

    Just my opinion on my experiences.
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    The beginning of this point was made by me and the fact that we had a rep from Ferrara come in and just blast every competitor without giving the fact-benefir for his company, and within 10-15 minutes we were done with him. We contacted the company and never received a reply from them.

    Do they make good vehicle? Would not know since they never got back to us about their rep. Would we consider them again? No! So does that mean we settled for number 2 on the list? No they were just one of the companies we contacted when specing out rescue/pumper.

    I can honestly say that the reps from E-one, Pierce, Seagrave, 4-guys, and Smeal have been fantastic to us so far, and so have the ALF reps. Point is, when specing out the vehicle, do some homework on the company, see if they have had good reputations with departments, and see if they have qaulity sales people to work with you because they are going to be doing the majority of the work for you, not the big wigs sitting in the company office.

    Seems to me that if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it pretty much is a duck.

    STILL STANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Red face 1200vfr obviously mis-understood me.

    I am on the same page with Resq14, if you have a bad rep regardless of the manufacturer I wouldn't buy from them. Who are you gonna call at 2am when your truck poops the bed? the factory? I was only trying to say that, if I did infact have a particuarlly (sp) negative experience with a rep you bet your butt I'd be calling the manufactuer... and I'd make it painfully clear why they lost the apparatus sale. We've got some bad sales reps around here... and some great ones. One sales rep threatened a lawsuit over our last truck because we didn't choose the low bid (him). So anyway, sorry for the confusion.

    -Nick

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