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  1. #21
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    Donna,
    Sorry about the mix up, The template is actually on Dalmatian Fires website. There is a link on the HOO site to it. They have been tremendous sponsors for the HOO program and great friends of the fire service as well.
    If you ever need gear and / or equipment give Kim a call at Dalmatian. If you dont think his prices are low enough, call him and haggle with him, He will deal on quanities for sure, and they stand behind what they sell.
    Tyler


  2. #22
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    Hey Mark.

    Do your research, dude. Ol' Donna is on another thread here talking about how all the FD equipment is owned by her, and that she is so ticked off at the citizens, she is considering taking her equipment and starting another department in another town.

    Read up on all of her past posts on the Fire Fighters Forum. You'll get quite an education.

  3. #23
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    THATS NOT VERY NICE AT ALL GOERGE....WHY DONT YOU READ UP ON MY WEBSITE BEFORE YOU START JUDGING ME WITHOUT EVER EVEN SEEING MY FACE????....OR EVER MEETING ME...
    IF YOU SEEM TO HAVE PROBS WITH ME...KEEP IT TO YOURSELF AND DONT GO TRYING TO BRING ME DOWN ON OTHER POSTS! I WILL BE REPORTING YOU TO WT IF IT CONTINUES!

  4. #24
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    I WILL BE REPORTING YOU TO WT IF IT CONTINUES!
    Have at it! You posted the stuff, not me.

  5. #25
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    My personal opinion is that a it seems some people are in this for themselves, or perhaps there own self esteem. To volunteer is very noble on the part of an individual, but to do it at possibly the expense of ones own life is purely foolhardy. If a community is not willing to pay for fire protection, wether it be private, independant, public or whatever, then they deserve NO FIRE PROTECTION, no rescue, no nothing. Time to pack up, and shut it down. You may find out just how fast the community is willing to pony up the dough, if they think they have no protection whatsoever! Turning out with junk, will one day cost a life.... thats a heavy price to pay, when the community itself is unwilling to pay for you to be there! Good luck!

  6. #26
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    Originally posted by station34
    My personal opinion is that a it seems some people are in this for themselves, or perhaps there own self esteem. To volunteer is very noble on the part of an individual, but to do it at possibly the expense of ones own life is purely foolhardy. If a community is not willing to pay for fire protection, wether it be private, independant, public or whatever, then they deserve NO FIRE PROTECTION, no rescue, no nothing. Time to pack up, and shut it down. You may find out just how fast the community is willing to pony up the dough, if they think they have no protection whatsoever! Turning out with junk, will one day cost a life.... thats a heavy price to pay, when the community itself is unwilling to pay for you to be there! Good luck!
    Man, where did you come from? That is like music to my ears!

  7. #27
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    Default Re: NO FIRE PROTECTION

    Well, I know of several departments that have gone out of business. Worst part is that the citizens didn't care, and I have actually seen instances where people have died because of it. You have to remember that the majority of these places are severely impovrished, and fit the target areas for fatalities by the USFA.

    As far a firefighters dying, all you have to do is look at the NIOSH reports, and guess what, you can easily spot them. In fact, preliminary results in a study Helping Our Own is doing shows that 8% of the fire fatalities could possibly have been avoided with proper funding. Blowouts on trucks, antiquated trucks, wires down on a fence and no hand-helds to notify crews, and so many other things.

    I would however like to address the "shutting the doors" if there is no funding. I assume (and that can be dangerous) that you are from a better funded area. In certain areas of the United States (normally rural areas), you can actually travel through four counties and never find a departmewnt that has over a $20,000 annual budget.

    When I lived in Missouri, the closest fire department that had over a $20k annual budget was 47 miles away. I have driven that distance for a mass casualty incident with them once, and it took an hour and fifteen minutes to get there because of the curvy Ozark Mountain roads.

    About 70% of our applicants for Helping Our Own have to wait over an hour for extrication tools. What's wrong with this picture? Also, let me ask you this, if someones life was on the line, would you wait an hour for someone, or would you do all that you could do. Believe me, I am not saying you are wrong, because you aren't! What I am saying is that a firefighter is a firefighter wether he has the gear or not. Unfortunately, many of these guys (and gals) can't stand to be a bystander, thats where Helping Our Own has come in, and continues to come in. I just wish we could do more!

    I have been on both sides of the coin, and I can tell you that these folks won't let lack of equipment stop them. They may not do as much as there better equipped counterparts, but they will be there. All we can do is to do our best to help them. When I said we in the last sentence, I didn't mean just Helping Our Own, I meant we as a fire service brother or sister.

    Just an FYI, Helping Our Own will be delivering a semi load of equipment to Arkansas on the 6th of December. We hope to help to outfit 40 to 50 departments. While it seems like a lot, there are about 90 departments in AR that have asked for help. It reminds me of the story of the guy walking down the beach. He was picking up stranded starfish and throwing them back in. A man walked up and said, "What do you think your doing? There are millions of them! Do your really think you will make a difference?" The man throwing the starfish in the ocean said "I will make a difference to the ones I throw back!" We will make a difference to the ones we help.

    Any and all of you can feel free to contact me any time, ... Mark



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    Mark S. Warnick (Founder)
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  8. #28
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    Mark, as I have explained before, the challenges faced by rural FD's are not lost on me. True, our FD's in Northern NJ tend to be well-funded, I have had enough interaction with rural FD's through the NFA to understand what the issues are.

    However, that doesn't cure citizen apathy. A poor department can offer public ed and recruitment and retention programs to aid in their manpower issues and to garner support for increased funding. Other ideas for increasing the efficiency and stretching the budget include regionalization and consolidation. Extrication tools an hour away are better than no extrication tools.

    It is interesting that over a month ago, I offered to help Donna put together a public ed program, free, to help her plight. DEspite all the whining, she did not take me up on the offer. Rural departments that are in trouble need to look at ways to help themselves before they look for handouts.

    I appreciate the work your organization does and look forward to hearing of your continued progress and success.

  9. #29
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    George,

    I tend to agree with you on almost all of the above. In fact, if you know much about HOO you will know that we offer as many alternatives to as many departments as possible. Poor or rich, I receive numerous calls per day looking for advice. Help has been given (advice) to large and small departments alike. Especially when it comes to a city council that is a bully.

    In actuality my post was for "station 34", not you, but it fell along the same lines. My apologies if I offended anyone, I am just trying to help folks see the other side of the fence. I started out in a well funded department, and when I finally retired from active duty (As an Asst. Chief), I was in the poorest department I had seen in my life. Seventeen years in the fire service, and I had never seen it so pitiful as it was there.

    Now as far as your recruitment and retention, and your public education program, I am very interested in it. In fact, if you would be willing, I would like to ask you to make it as generic, and as simple as possible, and to give us permission to hand it out free of charge. If you are willing, remember KISS (for those rookies, it's "Keep It Simple Stupid"). Some of these departments that I deal with are lucky to have two people that can read. This makes the recruitment and retention book almost useless. If we can make it simple, with no fancy words, and straight to the point, I think it could help fire service a lot. Of course this would be contingent upon you wanting to help in this respect.

    If you haven't seen the grant narrative template, please check it out (www.dalmatianfire.com). We didn't charge anything for it, and we made it available to everyone. We only put Helping Our Own's name on it (Note: The creators name is not on it) to raise awareness of the rural departments plight, and how others could help. We are absolutely about the firefighters, and the unity in the fire service. Once again, please accept my apology if I offended you, ... Mark


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    Mark S. Warnick (Founder)
    Helping Our Own (TM)
    Firefighter helping Firefighter
    www.helpingourown.org
    e mail: mark@helpingourown.org
    Phone 1-877-4-HOO-Hel(p)
    (1-877-446-6435)

    Helping Our Own (TM)
    4063 Page Avenue,
    P.O. Box 413,
    Michigan Center,
    MI. 49254-0413

  10. #30
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    Mr Warnick
    Does your organization do a check to prove real need and to assure the equipment will be utilized to its fullest?
    From these posts, it looks like you will be donating equiptment to some ones hobby
    ie a "traveling fire department"

  11. #31
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    It seems awful funny that I wanted to relocate...I wouldve 7 years ago and wouldntve been here THIS long.If most of you had the same funding problems I have,having been here the above said years...and you had a choice to relocate to an area that is MORE THAN WILLING to help with funding....or stay in an area and NEVER recieve the "operating funding" you need....THEN WHAT CHOICE WOULD YOU PICK????
    There was no word said ANYWHERE that I would "sell" or "distribute" ANY equipment that was donated to our Company...and also there was NOT a word said BY ME indicating that we moved around like a CIRCUS...
    My point is strictly this...to find a place that will BETTER the Dept instead of a place that LOWERS it.Why operate in a place that sees no sense in budgeting thier own Dept that THEY asked for originally and I bent over backwards to start???
    I have been here SEVEN (count them) SEVEN freakin years with no help AT ALL from the Community and I or WE have responded on EVERY call!
    If youd like phone numbers of People around here to find out just how GOOD of a person I really am...then dont hesitate to ask!
    Its folks like YOU that give the underfunded Companies bad names and its folks like YOU that gives generous people like Mr.Warnick bad names for trying to help those in need!I made my apologies to Mr.Warnick simply becuase of simple misunderstandings and I DO admit I was totally wrong for prejudging his organization....and I will further say I will NEVER prejudge him again...so why dont the rest of you folks at least have the same honor and integrity with me instead of running me in the freakin ground every chance you get????
    ENUFF SAID!

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  12. #32
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    In regards to GOERGEWENDTS post,I also made the statement to him that if he THINKS hes good enough to make people(my Community) that simply DONT care in making them CARE enough to help with budgeting something THEY wanted in the first place...then hes more than welcome to do it...for I have done all I can think of in trying to get them to care enough to at LEAST donate ONE measly dollar per month...PER household.I simply do not see where ONE dollar hurts them at all since that ONE dollar ALWAYS ends up in the local bar anyways and its not the local bar that responds to thier incidents!
    I only spent this amount of time here HOPING they would come through...and I have seen NOTHING of anything they had promised from the very "get-go".
    Now...if im such this baaaad person like MOST of you seem to think...then apparently...you have not been in the type of predicaments that MOST of us "poor" companies have been in.
    I,like Mr.Warnick,started this company out of my OWN pocket.I spent my entire enheritance on THOUGHTS of the Community at least helping on something they literally begged me to do...and FYI...I spent OVER 350,000 dollars on this Company...and I continue to work for a living to keep it on its feet...and NOT for me...BUT FOR THEM!
    When I first did this...I had ALL the promises in the world of them helping with funding as well as volunteering and to this day have seen absolutely NONE of what they promised despite what I did or tried to do to GET funding...so allll these years I have been running this Company and keeping it on its feet...out of my OWN pocket...and why you might ask??...NOT for me...NEVER for me...but for a community that WANTED it!You all seem to want to judge a book by its cover and regardless of my complaining...what i have said about the situation is the basis of my complaining...as I know for a FACT you all would to should you arise in the same predicament!So basically what im getting from you people is that Im just supposed to stay in a place that simply DOES NOT CARE what they have or WHO tries to help them...and that I cannot BETTER the Company by relocating to a new location thats WILLING to help budget!If you seem to think that way,then you simply are not the people you think you are!Furthermore and Lastly...by aquiring a decent "operating budget" simply means I will no longer have to need help...thus NO complaining!
    So before you go judging those you dont know or have never met...or judging circumstances that you have NO idea about...Id strongly suggest that you at least listen to what the person has to say from the inside...instead of the outside!

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  13. #33
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    and I will further say I will NEVER prejudge him again...so why dont the rest of you folks at least have the same honor and integrity with me instead of running me in the freakin ground every chance you get????
    ENUFF SAID!
    Uh....I don't think we are prejudging anybody.

    You run yourself into the ground every time one of your fingers hits a key on the keyboard.

  14. #34
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    Now as far as your recruitment and retention, and your public education program, I am very interested in it. In fact, if you would be willing, I would like to ask you to make it as generic, and as simple as possible, and to give us permission to hand it out free of charge. If you are willing, remember KISS (for those rookies, it's "Keep It Simple Stupid"). Some of these departments that I deal with are lucky to have two people that can read. This makes the recruitment and retention book almost useless. If we can make it simple, with no fancy words, and straight to the point, I think it could help fire service a lot. Of course this would be contingent upon you wanting to help in this respect.
    I didn't take any offense from your post. I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't blindeed by one side of this story.

    Of course I would like to help. Of course, making it generic is a little more difficult than making it department specific...at least the way that I had it in mind.

    I will email you about it.

  15. #35
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Donna...

    I am just curious, have you done any of the internet searches I recommended? There is money out there, but it's not looking for you.

    I must say we are having a banner year as far as alternative funding goes.

    $81,270 FIRE Act
    $1,732 State DNR Grant
    $750 from a charitable foundation
    $1067 from our Haunted House on the Hill fundraiser
    $700 from distributing AVON brochures in which we get 40% of the total receipts
    $1000 Donation from a local corporation
    $2000 Donation from a local corporation
    $300 or there abouts from a brat fry
    $50 from direct citizen donations
    $750 from a charitable foundation for 2 victims of an apartment fire

    Plans are being finalized for a breakfast with Santa, all but the breakfast sausage for this event have been donated.

    Plans for next years Haunted House on the Hill are already underway.

    Plans for multiple brat fry's are underway.

    As far as my budget goes, from our community we receieved a $3,100 bump up in our budget. Good service and good community support have helped us tremendously.

    Donna, I again offer this opinion. If your community will neither support you or fund you, shut the doors. If you have infact put $350K of your own money in this department you are far more dedicated than I am. I have, in leaner times, as have others, spent our own money to fix things but nothing on a scale with you. I in fact told my board at last year's budget hearing you need to decide if you want a fire department, if you do fund us, if you don't close us and see how much it costs you to contract to another municipality and how much budgetary control you lose. Well, they funded us the best they could and we do the best we can with that.

    FyredUp

  16. #36
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    Youre just an *** that cant see things in reality GOERGE so as I said before...just dont speak to me or answer my posts.

    For FYREDUP:....I have no future plans of closing my doors nor do I have any desire to.Too much of a loss in money if I did that.My decision would be strictly to relocate.
    I have plans already in motion of a relocation place where the people are more than willing to fund...since I already have MOST of the equipment.ALOT of people there have told me that theyd even be willing to have a "paid" dept but I have no want to be paid.All I am looking for is people that actually give a **** enough to at least TRY to fund.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  17. #37
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    Donna I dont know what kinda firefighter you are but apparently you are a rather crappy business woman. Who in their right mind would shell out that kinda money without getting a contract in place before hand.
    After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one

    Official Minister of Philosophy of the IACOJ

    IACOJ Probie Crusty of the year 2003

  18. #38
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    Youre just an *** that cant see things in reality GOERGE so as I said before...just dont speak to me or answer my posts.
    Man. Whoever this GOERGE guy is really ****ed her off!

  19. #39
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Donna,

    You had better have contract in hand before you relocate or else you have no gaurantee of funding in your new location either.

    I do have a question for you though. You said you have invested $350K of your own money into your private corporation fire company. May I ask what you spent the money on? You have said you have a 1950 fire engine. I know in our area you can buy a really decent mid 80's used pumper for between $35K and up to around $70K. Heck with $350K I would have 2 different engines, a mini-pumper and have them fully equipped.

    FyredUp

  20. #40
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    George I would say that somebody got under her skin and Fyredup I was kinda wondering the same thing about the money and no contract .....
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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