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  1. #41
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    I will admit it was MY mistake for not drawing up any contracts with this BUT..I was simply running on "trust"...and these people broke that trust.The place I have my eyes on there WILL be contracts made but right now were just running petitions...just to see who WANTS and who DONT.Afterwards the contract will come into play.As for right now,the petitions are at 63% that WANT...and the petitioning isnt completed as of yet.Think about this...63%(so far there) vs 0%(here)!...which would you pick?

    For FYREDUP...that 350g went into everything...the trucks,the equipment,the organization,the legalities and the insurances plus getting the trucks "legal".When I first opened the doors,I was buying the equipment brand new...but as time went on...my budgeting got slim...and all on trust and hopes.When I say theres 350g involved..it simply means through the years...not all in one whack.bills must be paid and the trucks must be fueled and maintained...and by buying NEW trucks...I wouldve only been left with just ONE NEW truck instead of four OLDER ones....and what good would it have been with just ONE truck??

    and GEORGE...I have nothing to hide...otherwise I would not have bothered posting a profile or making a website...but YOU,my freind, MUST have some personal problems...all I see is ALOT of mouth out of some *** carrying a movie stars name!I have nothing at all against any of you as previously stated but GEORGE...you really need to face reality my man....and stop THINKING you know things or people or circumstances you know jack about.

    And TRUCKIRONS...I only did it becuase at one time I CARED...and I trusted that they did as well.As far as Im concerned "caring" has nothing to do with being a "crappy businesswoman".

    Bottom Line is...I am VERY pleased with the success I have made with my Company and how far I have come...but I am NOT pleased with the citizens by not making it what it could have been.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/seligmanAZ
    Last edited by July36; 11-20-2003 at 09:12 PM.


  2. #42
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Donna,

    I suppose this will put me in the same category as George but here goes anyways.

    Your fire company is a private fire company. Is it a for profit or non-profit organization? If it is a for profit organization and you didn't have contracts in place detailing what is the expected level of service on your part and what is the expected level of funding on their part I am afraid I must agree with the assertion that you are not a very savy business person. If it is non-profit and solely in operation to offer service to the community (I can't fathom a private fire company with an owner not being for profit) then I would say failing to have a contract with your community again detailing expected service and expected level of funding makes you at the very least naive.

    Trust is a wonderful thing, but in the world of business and government if it isn't written down it didn't happen, wasn't agreed to and you can't prove it.

    An example is I had one of my board members at the budget hearing this year propose a major increase to my budget, over 10%. It passed the preliminary budget hearing and was to be presented to the board. In a totally unrelated conversation that same board member intimated that he didn't expect it to make it through the full board. Because of past history I knew this meant he would attempt to torpedo it. Since he mistakenly forewarned me I talked to a couple of board members and the clerk and told them what I suspected. Well, yepper he tried to remove the increase but because I forewarned them they were prepared and he was shot down. Should I have trusted him because he proposed the increase? One would have thought so...

    I doubt that private fire companies will ever garner the type of community respect and support that local municipal volunteer and career fire departments do. The thought in my mind is this, as soon as the profits wane, so does the private fire companies interest in the community. can anyone say Scottsdale?

    Also, everyone please understand that I know the difference between a private volunteer fire company that is run by a board of directors, trustees or whatever as a non-profit entity and is contracted by the municipality and a privately owned fire company that has an owner and seeks contracts to fund their business.

    FyredUp

  3. #43
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    My apologies for not replying sooner. First off, Mr. Warnick. I have nothing against the efforts of Helping Our Own. I think it is a great thing you do. Yes, I am from a very well funded area. You are correct! I would not risk myself to help people that are unwilling to pay for the neccesitys to save there butts. That may make me a cold person, but I'll still be here tommorow. I think there is a severe false sense of nobility that permeates the fire service. There is no glory in death... the only upside is you don't have to pay your mortgage, or your truck payments. And there is nothing good about it for those you leave behind. I would rather see private citizens with a crowbar at a scene, than a fire truck with nothing more than a crowbar on it for equipment. The lack of funding that seems so prevalent, is perpetuated by the fire service itself, by being willing to perform with nothing other than a t-shirt on your back, a rusty old truck, and the afformentioned crowbar. Now, I'm not trying to knock anyone personally for what they do. We all march to our own drum. These are merely MY OPINIONS, and are not a personal attack against anyone! I have no desire to get into a p!$$ing match with another forum member over what amounts to the way I feel about an issue! Regards to all.

    St34

  4. #44
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    and GEORGE...I have nothing to hide...otherwise I would not have bothered posting a profile or making a website...but YOU,my freind, MUST have some personal problems...all I see is ALOT of mouth out of some *** carrying a movie stars name!I have nothing at all against any of you as previously stated but GEORGE...you really need to face reality my man....and stop THINKING you know things or people or circumstances you know jack about.
    Wow. Somebody using a movie star's name, with tons of personal problems, talking out of my butt with no focus on reality...

    HOLY CRAP! I'M MICHAEL JACKSON!

  5. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    I don't want to interrupt this beautiful scrum, but do volunteer Dept's have access to state lottery money in the US?

    Here in Canada, volunteer organizations (including VFD's) can apply for funds from the provincial lottery commission. It won't buy you a truck, but is usually good for a few thousand a year for equipment and training. just another idea.

    Please resume round two. DING!
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  6. #46
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    Originally posted by mcaldwell
    I don't want to interrupt this beautiful scrum, but do volunteer Dept's have access to state lottery money in the US?

    Here in Canada, volunteer organizations (including VFD's) can apply for funds from the provincial lottery commission. It won't buy you a truck, but is usually good for a few thousand a year for equipment and training. just another idea.

    Please resume round two. DING!
    You're a funny guy. In NJ, lottery money is supposed to go to the schools and casino money is supposed to go the schools and senior citizens. But somehow, I am still paying almost $9000 (that's right-three zeros) in taxes with the overwhelming majority going for schools. The fire service in NJ doesn't have a prayer of getting any of this money.

  7. #47
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    yes...we are non-profit WYREDUP...We do not make any money by doing this...nor do we or have we ever charged for fire protection.My only conmplaint is simply this....I didnt mind at all putting my own money into this company...simply becuase I wanted to do it or I wouldnt have done it.Its just that I have major problems with people that outright lie to me and making promises that never come through.I mean,I can deal with maybe a handful out of the community being asses and not doing what they promised ...BUT...the whole freakin community...as a whole???...seems to me theres just something NOT RIGHT with that picture...and it isnt me as I have done my part at the "bargaining table".Actually I feel I have done MORE than enough of my share.All im asking for from the community is money enough to keep the trucks fueled and maintained and at least have enough left over for this coming years expenses(insurances,etc) and possibly for upgrading the equipment a little becuase i just cannot continue paying for EVERYTHING out of my own pocket.
    I do not expect or even "want" to make money off this operation for my own use...but for the company itself...and I have no "want" of being paid.According to the Company "by-laws",even as owner,i simply cannot use any of the funding that the Company MAY get for my own personal use.Everything that the Company makes has to be inventoried and reported to the Corp. Commission....and besides...the board handles ALL money that has to do with the Company.All I want from them(the community) is what they promised...just as I fulfilled my promise to them...nothing more...then Ill be happy.
    I dont know how many times it takes just to stress this.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ
    Last edited by July36; 11-22-2003 at 04:19 PM.

  8. #48
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Donna,

    Why won't this community that wants you to be there fire department just start their own volunteer fire department? I am having a hard time understanding the benefit of having your company come in? It would seem to me that if they had you in there and funded you contracturally that equipment purchased would belong to your company and not the community. What happens if let's say 5 years into the contract your company decides they want out or fold due to financial problems? Unless I misunderstand the concept of your company totally you utilize community volunteers to staff the rigs since you have no employess. If there is a base of volunteers ready to serve why do they need you? My only assumption is that they won't have to outlay any substantial money up front because you already have some equipment.

    I consider myself to be a fairly dedicated volunteer firefighter on my off days from the career fire department I work for but I just can't fathom investing $350K of my own money into a non-profit private fire company or actually any fire department for that matter. Particularly if from day one you didn't get the support from the community and its budget you were promised. I'm afraid I would have walked long before $350K flew from my wallet.

    FyredUp

  9. #49
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    I dont know how many times it takes just to stress this.
    Many of us hope not too many more!

  10. #50
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    yeaa right FYREDUP...thier really gonna start thier own FD when they cant even afford to fund this one.
    As far as staffing is concerned..thats another problem...most of the time I have to run on calls by myself becuase theres nobody here willing to work or try to put an effort in.
    My staffing consists of 8 people..which most of these 8 people work out of the area so thier not always available.The ones that sit around and do nothing are the ones I have a serious problem with.
    I personally do not see anytime in the future of these people making thier own FD...and actually that was "supposedly" what I was for.
    I think...that most of these people didnt know the actual expenses it took to run a proper FD and now that theyve seen how much money it can consist of...now they want no part of "giving up" funding.
    Theres many things involved that is just very "unexplainable" in this situation.One would literally have to "be here" to see the points ive been trying to make.Anyhow,myself and a few of my members will be making our "move" pretty soon anyways so Im not gonna worry about it no more...Ive made my decision as well as some of my members...its time to go to a place where there IS funding.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  11. #51
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Donna,

    My question was about your new location not your present community. Who is going to staff your fire department there? You? Running calls by yourself? Community volunteers? Your current 8 volunteers who are out of town? Who?

    My question was if there is community support in your new community for a fire department what does that mean? Monetarily only? Community people volunteering to work for you? What? My second point was if in that new community there is a support base for a volunteer fire department what do they need your company for? Why don't they establish their own fire department that the community owns and has some control over? My guess is you come in with equipment, granted old equipment, already to go so they don't have an initial massive capital outlay.

    I have been trying to understand your situation but you talk in circles never really answer questions that I ask and get angry when anyone pushes for answers. Actually I don't have to be there to understand the situation at all. Unless you explain it differently than what I have garnered so far here it is. 1) With your own money you established a private fire company that is non-profit. 2) You began to offer services, limited at best, if you are responding alone to calls, without a contract in place with the community. 3) The community realizing that you would fund this department out of your own pocket never comes up with the money you say was promised. 4) Not only is community funding non-exsistent but so is community membership, or at least enough community membership to make you an effective fire department. (You can't be effective responding to calls alone, maybe you have been lucky so far, but the odds will catch up someday). 5) Another community is now interested so you are leaving the community you are in now and going there. Kind of makes me question what you care about.

    If what I have said is wrong then explain what it is that is wrong.

    FyredUp

  12. #52
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    Anyhow,myself and a few of my members will be making our "move" pretty soon anyways so Im not gonna worry about it no more...Ive made my decision as well as some of my members...its time to go to a place where there IS funding.
    Wasn't there a Cher song about this?

  13. #53
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    Ok...im gonna try to answer your questions to the best of my ability FYREDUP...so here goes...

    First,..im not exactly sure what the outcome in the new community as far as volunteers is yet...until im actually there.Many of them have told me that theyd be more than happy to volunteer.
    Next...as far as them starting thier own VFD...thats what thier wanting me to go there for.Theyd rather have an Independent come in for their fire/med protection than having the County come in.From what they tell me its mainly because of 2 reasons...they dont want a "raise in taxes" and they dont want to go thru the hassles of getting a district going.I have tried that here and its more troublesome than its worth so i fully understand where thier coming from(districtwise) becuase I really dont want a District either.I simply dont like the idea of having the County to answer to and it seems that they dont either...at least as what was explained to me.
    Basically they want thier OWN protection but without County involvement.
    I also must add this particular community is a " middle class to upper class" community...in which,i feel VERY comfortable being in.
    The community im leaving is a very "low class society" in which i do not feel comfortable in anymore.
    And as far as "supportwise"...i have been told by many there as well as many of them have discussed with my Asst Chief that yes...they ARE willing to Contract us and willing to support us in more ways than one...which is something im sorry i cant say about the community were in right now.Weve even been told person to person that they would be even willing to make us a "paid dept" after some time passes by...but...i am not really interested in being paid...all Im wanting is for my Company to be a successful one...not only by me by myself...but by a community that cares enough to want to make it successful.
    For reasoning of exactly why they didnt have thier own FD in the first place is beyond my knowledge and I really didnt want to ask...but...the indication I have gotten from them is noone cared enough to want to come in open a FD there being it is so far away from anywhere and I personally do not believe they had the knowledge to take that "first step"(the townspoeople themselves).I told them I am willing to help in any way I can but it ALL must be on paper...that goes for ANY kind of agreements that might be made.I also explained the situation we are having in this community and advised them that I really did not want to go thru it again.
    Either way,I have ALOT better outcome there...than I do here.
    Furthermore...Their not after something they want "full control" over neither are they looking for something "community owned" becuase they have no "basis" at the present time...which is what I will be there for...for the basis to start at.Anything having to do with the money from the community damn sure wont go into my pocket...but will go into a "funding board committee" of 5 people.That will be a board other than my Admin board....which is the same way it is set up here.This way the people have full sayso over THIER money but NOT the overall Company.This myself and my Asst Chief have discussed this with the people there and they seem fine with it so we have the "green light" on it.Around Jan 2nd or 3rd...we are planning on having a public meeting there and I have a spokesman that will be coming in to do the speaking on our behalf.This will be when I will be able to answer more questions..not only my own questions..but yours as well.
    Alot of questions I simply could not answer until after Im in the community for awhile to see whats what...but i can sure keep updating the posts tho as time goes on.
    Lastly...as far as who or what I care about....I care more than people realize..otherwise I wouldntve put everything I had into my company in order to help "somebody".My caring ...is simply this....to better my company and to have support from a community that actually gives a s***t.
    I hope I have at least shed some light on some of your questions.I have tried the best of my ability on what I know or have a recelection of thus far.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  14. #54
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Donna,

    You have said repeatedly you don't want to be a paid fire chief for this new community. I have a couple of questions in regards to that: What do you do for a living? Why wouldn't you choose to be paid for being the fire chief?

    Maybe I am failing to grasp the concept of what you are trying to do but here are a couple of more questions.

    1) Why run as a non-profit? What is the benefit to you?
    2) If I read you right you receive no compensation for this. Does that mean no pay whats so ever or a pay for call or what?


    FyredUp

  15. #55
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    also must add this particular community is a " middle class to upper class" community...in which,i feel VERY comfortable being in.
    The community im leaving is a very "low class society" in which i do not feel comfortable in anymore.
    Well, well, well. The true colors coming through. Add bigotry to the list.

  16. #56
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    they dont want a "raise in taxes" and they dont want to go thru the hassles of getting a district going
    yet they feel it will be cheaper to fund your company? Question, a "tax" would be collected from every homeowner, how do they plan to fund you? Will it be by donation from only those homeowners that want to donate? Or will they be forcing each homeowner to contribute and if so, how is that different than a raise in taxes? And if only contributions from those that want to, are you sure there will be enough contributors (words go a long way til it's time to actually dig in their pockets) to fund your company?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #57
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    Any one ever see that old movie the "music man"? "trouble trouble trouble"--- "fire fire fire"

  18. #58
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    What an absolute waste of time reading this was!!
    If you dont want the local county state or fed gov involved
    fine do with out their money and stop whinning. I can not
    under stand the concept she is taling about. I started reading
    in the middle of the post then read all the way through from
    the top and wound up with my head tied in a figure 8
    I seem to agree with GEORGE or is it GOERGE on this one

  19. #59
    Temporarily/No Longer Active July36's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FyredUp
    Donna,

    You have said repeatedly you don't want to be a paid fire chief for this new community. I have a couple of questions in regards to that: What do you do for a living? Why wouldn't you choose to be paid for being the fire chief?

    Maybe I am failing to grasp the concept of what you are trying to do but here are a couple of more questions.

    1) Why run as a non-profit? What is the benefit to you?
    2) If I read you right you receive no compensation for this. Does that mean no pay whats so ever or a pay for call or what?


    FyredUp
    Because I really dont want to have to go through all the problems of becoming a "for profit" Corporation.Becoming NON-PROFIT is much easier.Theres just alot of things involved between ..here...and there that id rather not get into.
    As far as what I do for a living...that is noones business...but I make pretty good money nonetheless.
    Becoming a paid Company is more bs than id really rather get involved with.My particular benifit is thats how i want it...strictly non-profit...and it avoids all the unneccessary paperwork.
    Why is it noone can understand all im wanting is FUNDING...by the people??,,,,Seems awful funny the commuity THERE understands these things completely.

    And for you FIREMANPAT....noone is whining...all im doing is making things better for my company than they are here.

    And GEORGE .... or GOERGE(what the hell ever)... why dont you go fly a kite or something and stop aggravating the hell out of me once and for all!

    And BONES...its like this...THEY dont want it...and neither do I(districting even)...becuase if they did....they wouldve did it a longgggg time ago.

    My question to all of you is this.... What is it you **** hate so much about Companies that does not want politics over thier heads constantly???
    My company being NON-PROFIT and a "non-county or state entity" means LESS political bs for me.

    Now...this will be the last post I will be posting on this subject becuase it seems you people just dont seem to get the picture.
    I was told by a buddy of mine its just better not saying anything instead of arguing with a bunch of idiots.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD(will be formerly)
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

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    Why does the phrase "personal fiefdom" keep running through my head?

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