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  1. #51
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    Donna,

    My question was about your new location not your present community. Who is going to staff your fire department there? You? Running calls by yourself? Community volunteers? Your current 8 volunteers who are out of town? Who?

    My question was if there is community support in your new community for a fire department what does that mean? Monetarily only? Community people volunteering to work for you? What? My second point was if in that new community there is a support base for a volunteer fire department what do they need your company for? Why don't they establish their own fire department that the community owns and has some control over? My guess is you come in with equipment, granted old equipment, already to go so they don't have an initial massive capital outlay.

    I have been trying to understand your situation but you talk in circles never really answer questions that I ask and get angry when anyone pushes for answers. Actually I don't have to be there to understand the situation at all. Unless you explain it differently than what I have garnered so far here it is. 1) With your own money you established a private fire company that is non-profit. 2) You began to offer services, limited at best, if you are responding alone to calls, without a contract in place with the community. 3) The community realizing that you would fund this department out of your own pocket never comes up with the money you say was promised. 4) Not only is community funding non-exsistent but so is community membership, or at least enough community membership to make you an effective fire department. (You can't be effective responding to calls alone, maybe you have been lucky so far, but the odds will catch up someday). 5) Another community is now interested so you are leaving the community you are in now and going there. Kind of makes me question what you care about.

    If what I have said is wrong then explain what it is that is wrong.

    FyredUp

  2. #52
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    Anyhow,myself and a few of my members will be making our "move" pretty soon anyways so Im not gonna worry about it no more...Ive made my decision as well as some of my members...its time to go to a place where there IS funding.
    Wasn't there a Cher song about this?

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    Ok...im gonna try to answer your questions to the best of my ability FYREDUP...so here goes...

    First,..im not exactly sure what the outcome in the new community as far as volunteers is yet...until im actually there.Many of them have told me that theyd be more than happy to volunteer.
    Next...as far as them starting thier own VFD...thats what thier wanting me to go there for.Theyd rather have an Independent come in for their fire/med protection than having the County come in.From what they tell me its mainly because of 2 reasons...they dont want a "raise in taxes" and they dont want to go thru the hassles of getting a district going.I have tried that here and its more troublesome than its worth so i fully understand where thier coming from(districtwise) becuase I really dont want a District either.I simply dont like the idea of having the County to answer to and it seems that they dont either...at least as what was explained to me.
    Basically they want thier OWN protection but without County involvement.
    I also must add this particular community is a " middle class to upper class" community...in which,i feel VERY comfortable being in.
    The community im leaving is a very "low class society" in which i do not feel comfortable in anymore.
    And as far as "supportwise"...i have been told by many there as well as many of them have discussed with my Asst Chief that yes...they ARE willing to Contract us and willing to support us in more ways than one...which is something im sorry i cant say about the community were in right now.Weve even been told person to person that they would be even willing to make us a "paid dept" after some time passes by...but...i am not really interested in being paid...all Im wanting is for my Company to be a successful one...not only by me by myself...but by a community that cares enough to want to make it successful.
    For reasoning of exactly why they didnt have thier own FD in the first place is beyond my knowledge and I really didnt want to ask...but...the indication I have gotten from them is noone cared enough to want to come in open a FD there being it is so far away from anywhere and I personally do not believe they had the knowledge to take that "first step"(the townspoeople themselves).I told them I am willing to help in any way I can but it ALL must be on paper...that goes for ANY kind of agreements that might be made.I also explained the situation we are having in this community and advised them that I really did not want to go thru it again.
    Either way,I have ALOT better outcome there...than I do here.
    Furthermore...Their not after something they want "full control" over neither are they looking for something "community owned" becuase they have no "basis" at the present time...which is what I will be there for...for the basis to start at.Anything having to do with the money from the community damn sure wont go into my pocket...but will go into a "funding board committee" of 5 people.That will be a board other than my Admin board....which is the same way it is set up here.This way the people have full sayso over THIER money but NOT the overall Company.This myself and my Asst Chief have discussed this with the people there and they seem fine with it so we have the "green light" on it.Around Jan 2nd or 3rd...we are planning on having a public meeting there and I have a spokesman that will be coming in to do the speaking on our behalf.This will be when I will be able to answer more questions..not only my own questions..but yours as well.
    Alot of questions I simply could not answer until after Im in the community for awhile to see whats what...but i can sure keep updating the posts tho as time goes on.
    Lastly...as far as who or what I care about....I care more than people realize..otherwise I wouldntve put everything I had into my company in order to help "somebody".My caring ...is simply this....to better my company and to have support from a community that actually gives a s***t.
    I hope I have at least shed some light on some of your questions.I have tried the best of my ability on what I know or have a recelection of thus far.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  4. #54
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    Donna,

    You have said repeatedly you don't want to be a paid fire chief for this new community. I have a couple of questions in regards to that: What do you do for a living? Why wouldn't you choose to be paid for being the fire chief?

    Maybe I am failing to grasp the concept of what you are trying to do but here are a couple of more questions.

    1) Why run as a non-profit? What is the benefit to you?
    2) If I read you right you receive no compensation for this. Does that mean no pay whats so ever or a pay for call or what?


    FyredUp

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    also must add this particular community is a " middle class to upper class" community...in which,i feel VERY comfortable being in.
    The community im leaving is a very "low class society" in which i do not feel comfortable in anymore.
    Well, well, well. The true colors coming through. Add bigotry to the list.

  6. #56
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    they dont want a "raise in taxes" and they dont want to go thru the hassles of getting a district going
    yet they feel it will be cheaper to fund your company? Question, a "tax" would be collected from every homeowner, how do they plan to fund you? Will it be by donation from only those homeowners that want to donate? Or will they be forcing each homeowner to contribute and if so, how is that different than a raise in taxes? And if only contributions from those that want to, are you sure there will be enough contributors (words go a long way til it's time to actually dig in their pockets) to fund your company?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Any one ever see that old movie the "music man"? "trouble trouble trouble"--- "fire fire fire"

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    What an absolute waste of time reading this was!!
    If you dont want the local county state or fed gov involved
    fine do with out their money and stop whinning. I can not
    under stand the concept she is taling about. I started reading
    in the middle of the post then read all the way through from
    the top and wound up with my head tied in a figure 8
    I seem to agree with GEORGE or is it GOERGE on this one

  9. #59
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    Originally posted by FyredUp
    Donna,

    You have said repeatedly you don't want to be a paid fire chief for this new community. I have a couple of questions in regards to that: What do you do for a living? Why wouldn't you choose to be paid for being the fire chief?

    Maybe I am failing to grasp the concept of what you are trying to do but here are a couple of more questions.

    1) Why run as a non-profit? What is the benefit to you?
    2) If I read you right you receive no compensation for this. Does that mean no pay whats so ever or a pay for call or what?


    FyredUp
    Because I really dont want to have to go through all the problems of becoming a "for profit" Corporation.Becoming NON-PROFIT is much easier.Theres just alot of things involved between ..here...and there that id rather not get into.
    As far as what I do for a living...that is noones business...but I make pretty good money nonetheless.
    Becoming a paid Company is more bs than id really rather get involved with.My particular benifit is thats how i want it...strictly non-profit...and it avoids all the unneccessary paperwork.
    Why is it noone can understand all im wanting is FUNDING...by the people??,,,,Seems awful funny the commuity THERE understands these things completely.

    And for you FIREMANPAT....noone is whining...all im doing is making things better for my company than they are here.

    And GEORGE .... or GOERGE(what the hell ever)... why dont you go fly a kite or something and stop aggravating the hell out of me once and for all!

    And BONES...its like this...THEY dont want it...and neither do I(districting even)...becuase if they did....they wouldve did it a longgggg time ago.

    My question to all of you is this.... What is it you **** hate so much about Companies that does not want politics over thier heads constantly???
    My company being NON-PROFIT and a "non-county or state entity" means LESS political bs for me.

    Now...this will be the last post I will be posting on this subject becuase it seems you people just dont seem to get the picture.
    I was told by a buddy of mine its just better not saying anything instead of arguing with a bunch of idiots.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD(will be formerly)
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

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    Why does the phrase "personal fiefdom" keep running through my head?

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    And GEORGE .... or GOERGE(what the hell ever)... why dont you go fly a kite or something and stop aggravating the hell out of me once and for all!
    And give up all this fun? Not on your life!

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    Now now George, didn't you mom ever tell you not to play with your food?

  13. #63
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    Donna,

    I am sure this will only enflame you even more but I have to ask anyways...How do you propose this community fund a new service, namely your private company, without raising taxes? Either something is going to get cut or you are going to be a subscription department or taxes are going to go up. It's really that simple.

    Also, after trying valiantly to see your point for the severasl days this post has run it is now abundantly clear to me what you seek. You want the power to run your company as YOU see fit with no outside interference or really even any oversite, yet you expect funding from the community and the feds like a municipally run fire department. Sorry, I now adamantly disagree with your concept totally. At first I saw you as a crusader to protect your community, now I tend to agree with the fiefdom comment.

    By the way I'll bet you didn't know that OSHA is the oversite and regulations setting agency for private fire companies. Have you contacted them to see what standards must be met? My guess is you have not.

    This commentary speaks volumes about your character: "I also must add this particular community is a " middle class to upper class" community...in which,i feel VERY comfortable being in.
    The community im leaving is a very "low class society" in which i do not feel comfortable in anymore." You are a vindictive snob, first you say that you started this because you cared about the community, now because you didn't get what you wanted they are low class. Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.......

    As for your current community I wouldn't have funded you either if you think a one person response is efficient. H3ll a one person response is a direct violation of OSHA's 2 in 2 out rule. Did you know that?

    Hopefully this community you are going to has enough common sense to build oversites and control elements into the contract, as well as tight reins on the funding.

    FyredUp

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    You are a vindictive snob, first you say that you started this because you cared about the community, now because you didn't get what you wanted they are low class.
    DOWN GOES FRAZIER! DOWN GOES FRAZIER!

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    George...

    Was I too harsh!

    I think not!!!!!

    FyredUp

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    Donna, my company is also non-profit, and not funded by State or County, so don't think you are so different that people don't understand your setup. The setup is not that different, the person trying to describe it is.

    Can you please answer my questions?

    Here they are again....

    How do they plan to fund you? Will it be by donation from only those homeowners that want to donate? Or will they be forcing each homeowner to contribute and if so, how is that different than a raise in taxes?

    If only contributions from those that want to, are you sure there will be enough contributors (words go a long way til it's time to actually dig in their pockets) to fund your company?

    This is the answer you provided, but it does not seem to answer any of the questions posed.
    And BONES...its like this...THEY dont want it...and neither do I(districting even)...becuase if they did....they wouldve did it a longgggg time ago.
    Again, can you answer these?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #67
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    George, I sent you a PM on this issue.

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    The silence is deafening!

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Donna, my company is also non-profit, and not funded by State or County, so don't think you are so different that people don't understand your setup. The setup is not that different, the person trying to describe it is.

    Can you please answer my questions?

    Here they are again....

    How do they plan to fund you? Will it be by donation from only those homeowners that want to donate? Or will they be forcing each homeowner to contribute and if so, how is that different than a raise in taxes?

    If only contributions from those that want to, are you sure there will be enough contributors (words go a long way til it's time to actually dig in their pockets) to fund your company?

    This is the answer you provided, but it does not seem to answer any of the questions posed.


    Again, can you answer these?

    It will be mainly by donations from those who want to donate.The rest will be on a "subscription basis" for those that want it but are too far out of our coverage area.
    I have some freinds of mine from Phoenix that is down there setting up the subscriptions amongst other things as we speak.One of them have a history of setting up non-profit as well as other types of FD's throughout the country.A couple of others are very good in "public speaking" so they will be doing all the "talking" to the citizens.And the other person is good with fundraising so she basically speaks for herself on why shes involved.
    This way at least MOST of the bases are covered by the time we make our move.So nothing at all is being forced from the citizens.We didnt even do that here in our present location....but your right tho...the people here are fine and dandy with a Dept being here...but when it starts to come into thier pockets...then its a whole different atmosphere.At least in the location were moving to the people there aint such @$$holes and thier willing to do what they said theyd do BUT...a contract will still be at hand.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

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    At least in the location were moving to the people there aint such @$$holes and thier willing to do what they said theyd do
    At least she's in this for the right reasons

  21. #71
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    Donna,

    Everytime you post now I just shake my head. You said I started this because I care. Then because the people never funded you, even though you foolishly never entered into a contract and funded it yourself, they became low class and people you are not comfortable with. Now it goes even further and they have become *********s for not doing what you never formally established they had to do before you started operating.

    Maybe it's just me but a song made popular by Cindy Lauper a few years ago keeps going through my head regarding you and your caring attitude. I think the title was True Colors and the big line in the song went something like this "I see your true colors shining through."

    If in fact the new location will be by donation and subscription only what is your guarantee that anyone will donte or subscribe? What good will a contract do if the governing body isn't your funding agency? I fear that in a few months we will have to live through the saga of your new community giving you the shaft and you taking your traveling band of troubadours on the road once again.

    Considering this is all non-profit I have to ask once again what is your motivation for doing any of this in the first place? It obviously, at least to me, is less about caring and more about control. Everyone is against you, the evil community that won't fund 1 person fire responses, the feds because you can't meet the matching funds and anyone on here that tries to get a straight answer out of you.

    Sitting here waiting patiently for the next diatribe...

    FyredUp

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    Without getting in too deep here, I'm going to throw in a little of my experience.

    I work for a large Resort Community, and our neighbourhoods are chock-full of your "upper-class" folk. We are currently a private dept as well (funded by the main resort, although we are in the process of transferring to the regional district), and we have never received more than a couple of thousand dollars a year in donations. We make a few buck by washing peoples driveways in the spring and such, but barely enough to buy a few new lengths of hose. This is in a neighbourhood where the average home value easily exceeds a half million dollars, and many are multi-million dollar mansions.

    In my 10 years working out here I have determined that there are two types of people who make up this demographic.

    1. Those who are over-extended and falsely living the life (debt ridden). They may promise funds but will seldom be able to pay them (at least regularly).

    2. Those who are wealthy because they are tight. They didn't get that way by throwing money around. They may give you some small donations, but don't expect a lot from them either. These people view insurance as more important than fire trucks.

    There is a third type. Those who inherited money, and spend it like it is not their own, but they are very few and far between and usually end up ****ing it away in the end anyway.

    I would not expect the money to flow in from the new community just because they appear to have it. You will quickly find those vocal few who promise the world, but they are usually type 1 and fail to deliver in the end.

    You will probably be just as frustrated in the new location, because people are still people regardless of neighborhood, and they will still view and respect you about as much as the guy who cuts their lawn.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

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    Sitting here waiting patiently for the next diatribe...
    Me too. I haven't had this much fun since Beerboy!

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    Thanks for the input MCCALDWELL...that is a point i will have my people look into down there at our new location.

    For the rest of yas....I realize there are no guarantees for there are no guarantees on anything...BUT...I really dont like the idea the people here being all for me getting this company going and then after its going...they want no part of it anymore...it just made me quite discouraged in helping them even tho at the very beginning that was my original plan.I knew when I first came here what types of ppl was in the community and McCALDWELL is right...there are all 3 types of those ppl here and ya simply cant get a dime out of them when ya ask for it.
    Bottom line is this....I simply cannot keep the company going out of my own pocket...i would end up broke...and I only have 2 choices...and that is to stay here and go completely broke...or move to my other location where people are at least willing to help and I can use my own money for things I might need(paying bills,etc.)
    My choice???....MOVE! LOLOL

    I DO want everybody to realize that just becuase were moving the compant...that the people here will not be left without protection...there IS a county based Company near here that will take over...on subscriptions or by charging only.

    My feelings is this...if theyd rather pay Seligman Fire District 4000 dollars PER call on incidents outside of thier district coverage area...than to fund me with just ONE lousy dollar per month per household(12 dollars per year per household) then thats strictly THIER choice.I only started this Company so that they dont have to pay that kind of price being most people here are "below poverty levels".

    The area we will be moving to has no fire or med protection services whatsoever...for at least 60 miles radius...and thats the reason thier lookin for that "basis" to start...which...is what were in the process of providing.There was an incident there before the holidays that required evacuation of the town and road closures around the area...all becuase they had no services to respond "immediately".They had to bring the services 60 miles away from any direction.
    This is ONE of the reasons for the move also.Here....there IS services already...and THERE...there is no services.

    Donna C.
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

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    More non-answers.....

    Oh well,

    FyredUp

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