1. #1
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    Question Training excercises for new scba's

    Hey,

    I need some ideas for what other departments have done when they get new SCBA's. We're upgrading from old SCOTT 2A's to new packs, of which we haven't determined a brand yet. That doesn't matter to this discussion though.

    What drills/training/excercises did you do when you got new packs. I want everyone to go through this before we put them in service.

    Any thoughts?

    Lee

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    Put the pack completely disassembled into a box and have the FF put it together,don it and go on air in complete darkness.

    Lay the pack in front of you. Place each glove under the respective knee,when someone says go you turn on the pack and announciate "Low air alarm has sounded","tank is 90%-full","gauges are within 10%" don the pack(either over the head or coat style)tighten all the straps with no twists put on the mask makeing sure you check the seal put on your hood, helmet,gloves go on air and stand up. When you stand up you stop timeing and inspect the subject. If I remember correctly we had to do it in 45 seconds. We did this drill alot in our explorer post and it really helped to learn the ins & out of the pack.

    Hope this helps.

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    I forgot one more.

    We used carboard tubes used for concrete casting and we put them in a frame. There about 18-24" and about 8' long in a nice dark boiling hot attic. You got to remain on air,doff the pack,crawl through the tube pushing the pack then go to the other side don the pack then doff it again and go through back to where you started. One thing we did to add diffaculty was to take another tube that was smaller and put it at a angle to the first tube so that you would have to turn a corner and wiggle into a smaller tube.

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    Sounds like stm4710 has a good drill there but remember that this is a brand new pack you are working with. You might just want to stick to the basics and let the guys get a feel for where everthing is on the pack and get comfortable with the new setup. Then get back into the more challenging and advanced drills.

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    New style pack, lecture on it's features/components. Everyone put them on, take it off, put it on, take it off, etc. Let the guys get comfortable with it. Make it (if not already) SOP to always put packs on for every call (except EMS), it helps guys get used to wearing them and comfortable with them. Repetition will be the key to the new style becoming comfortable.

    K.I.S.S. method works best.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I know we need to start from donning and doffing, and emergency procedures with the packs. But what measurable goals do I have to have before we put these in service? We currently do the drills that you all are talking about, thank you for your advice. I don't, however, think that is what I'm looking for. Has anyone done this in the past?

    Lee

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    Well how about you show everyone the pack,explain it to them and then get them to the point that they can tell you what every little bell,whistle,strap and ring is on there for and give talk about the new fetures. Also give them maybe a little "in the field" trouble shooting talk. As far as donning and doffing goals---from haveing it on the floor to standing up on air should be no more than 30 seconds is reasonable.


    Im not really sure what your looking for?

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    Just did the same thing about a year ago. My method was a classroom based orientation/overview followed by a round of training stations. What I actually found successful was keeping an old SCBA and laying it side by side with the new and as you point out each feature go through the "This is how it was, this is how it is now" routine. You be surprise how many things people took for granted on the old one and didn't really know about.

    I then proceeded to the simple donning, adjusting, getting on air, etc. From there each training station got progressively more complex. I included disassembling(station level stuff not tech level stuff), cleaning, swapping cylinders (once regular followed by blindfolded) concluded with an obstacle course search routine.

    Guys seemed happy and confident with the new setups so I guess that means it worked

    One thing I would offer as advice is regardless of what you choose to do for training on this subject, develop a sign off sheet that the FF signs stating they received the outlined training and have no further questions.

    Stay Safe!

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    Two items pop out at me.First we no longer allow the pack to be taken off in the "incident room"once donned.Pushing it ahead of you in a "tight"place also allows the pack to fall thru a "hole"in the floor.Plus in an emergency it does not allow for a hasty escape.Next,just how are you going going to determine "gauges match"in a blacked out room unless your gauges are backlit in some manner which most are not.I agree with the concept,we teach it here as well,but virtually inpossible to do in a black room without a light.And with a new pack,no way untill staff gets used to th new pack.Explain differences,do routine pack exercises then do the pack assemble and go to hone their newfound skills.T.C.

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    Lightbulb Just to clarify

    Originally posted by Rescue101
    Two items pop out at me.First we no longer allow the pack to be taken off in the "incident room"once donned.Pushing it ahead of you in a "tight"place also allows the pack to fall thru a "hole"in the floor.Plus in an emergency it does not allow for a hasty escape.Next,just how are you going going to determine "gauges match"in a blacked out room unless your gauges are backlit in some manner which most are not.I agree with the concept,we teach it here as well,but virtually inpossible to do in a black room without a light.And with a new pack,no way untill staff gets used to th new pack.Explain differences,do routine pack exercises then do the pack assemble and go to hone their newfound skills.T.C.
    I never said nor did I imply that the donning while getting timed and tube drill were connected.

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    4710,Nor did I imply there was anything wrong with your training concepts outside of the tube drill.Let me try to explain.We will react in an emergency in a like manner to how we were trained.If you teach FF's to remove the pack to get into a tight spot you are training them to enter an area they really shouldn't be in.Again it's difficult for me to put in words why this is an inappropriate training.If you push the pack ahead of you and it falls in a hole or breach it will rip the mask right off your face.That is why we have eliminated this "confidence builder"from our training program.I am not suggesting it is right for your Dept.I'm just asking you to think about this in a conceptual manner.We utilize all your other ideas in our program but starting with familiarization and finishing with blindfolded/black room assembly.T.C.

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    I think you are wrong to take the "pack dump" manuever out of your training regimen. I don't think anyone would teach that taking your pack off to get INTO a building, or room is a good idea. I think it is being taught for when you need to get OUT OF a bad spot, like a partial collapse inside the building when you are in there. The pack dump and other reduced profile manuver's are part of every good SCBA confidence course an are not only intended to save you life, but help you get more familiar with your SCBA.

    After these posts I have formulated a plan for implementing the new SCBA's. I'll post it here after I have it completed. Keep the input coming if there is any more.

    Thanks,
    Lee

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    I teach SCBA classes for the State of Iowa at their state fire schools, and here's what I recommend for departments with new packs.

    1. Have a classroom training session showing the parts and workings of the new SCBA's.

    2. Have firefighters don and doff the SCBA's. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. (Get the point?) Repeat. Repeat.

    Then you can move into the advanced training like pack dumps. I agree, this should never be used to enter a structure, only for emergency egress. My philosophy is, "If the hole is too small to get through with your pack on, find or make a bigger hole."

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    Reduced profile manuvers and removing pack while on air should be used for getting out of a bad situation, not squeezing into one. When 'pushing' the pack ahead of you, you should always keep a tight grip on the left shoulder strap so if you do come upon a hole it will not rip the mask off of your face, and it gives you a reference point when you put it back on in low visibility situations. Most firefighter survival or 'saving your own' classes teach these methods.
    Marc S.
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Solon Local 2079

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    And one more tip...

    Go to your Essentials of Firefighting book (4th Ed., please) and read the chapter on SCBA's. Train on the skills listed in the book. It's an excellent resource.

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