1. #26
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    Angry Freedom of Speech Doesn't Cover Stupidity

    Freedom of Speech shall only go as far as this MUTT'S rope shall hang!

    Freedom of Speech doesn't cover LIBEL!!!

    WHAT A MUTT!!! MAN AM I FUMING!!!

    I WROTE HIM ONE HELLUVA NASTY LETTER, MOST LIKELY NOT HIS FIRST FROM ONE OF US, WHICH I POSTED ON THE OTHER THREAD ON THIS TOPIC (bashing the brotherhood)!!!

    Anyone have access to a MUTT HUNTER?

    WHERE'S CAPTAIN GONZO & THE IACOJ WHEN YA REALLY NEED EM?!?!

    (Maybe I just didn't read up far enough...)

    Anyway...Stay Safe Brothers & Sisters!!!
    LREngine135
    Firefighter/EMT-B


    All things I say...while not always making sense are ALWAYS my opinion and only mine. They do not reflect the opinions of any department of which I am a member.

  2. #27
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    Originally posted by Mongoose772
    Yes, his prose is inflammatory, but there is a significant amount of truth in what he writes.
    Well-formed post, Mongoose.
    That perhaps deserved to be said
    BUT spouting facts alone, doesn't mean it naturally supports the argument. Thats the oldest jounalistic trick in the book. (I summize you recognize that)

    Is 'hero' overused? oh ya, we all seem to agree.

    But his attacking the profession to correct the masses (and MEDIA's) overuse of 'hero'? to what end?

    Where does one start..
    Rediculous how he comdemes us as adrenelin junkies, from someone who makes his living catering to slobs who sit on the couch all weekend watching sport's 'adrenelin junkies' and overpaid premadonnas.

    He confuses motivation, brotherhood and desire to get home in one piece as misguided junkyism. One would think a sports guy would understand comraderie... implies he's an angry loner who's never gotten his heart rate up.

    How we honor our losses is not his to judge. He can stay home and watch footbal reruns in his underwear; stay home.

    He's obviously not a 'doer'. Lets hope he writes more crap like that, and lets the world form their opinion of the author.

    Is the pagentry overdone sometimes? sure, I think it could get toned down sometimes. If we look rediculous in the eyes of jealous loosers, who cares.
    Last edited by permaprobie; 11-02-2003 at 09:34 AM.

  3. #28
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    New York firefighters, admittedly deep in grief over lost co-workers, exacerbated the challenge of body recovery operations after 9/11 by insisting on elaborate removal procedures for each firefighter uncovered, an insult to others who died there.
    WRONG and NOT TRUE.
    While yes we lost members and we did carry them out with Honor we also did the same for ALL innocent victims murdered on 9-11-01. When we could tell the remains were a civilian the Construction Workers carry them out with full honors. Just as a Firefighter or Police Officer.

    I do agree with him with this comment. "But let's save the encomiums for when they are truly deserved, not when they just show up to do their job."

    But I also believe in this comment... "A man's greatest act of bravery is becoming a Fireman. Everything else is in the Line of Duty."

    Chief Croker, FDNY 1906
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 11-02-2003 at 06:38 PM.
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  4. #29
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    Default Re: Freedom of Speech Doesn't Cover Stupidity

    Originally posted by LRFireE135
    Freedom of Speech shall only go as far as this MUTT'S rope shall hang!

    Freedom of Speech doesn't cover LIBEL!!!

    WHAT A MUTT!!! MAN AM I FUMING!!!

    I WROTE HIM ONE HELLUVA NASTY LETTER, MOST LIKELY NOT HIS FIRST FROM ONE OF US, WHICH I POSTED ON THE OTHER THREAD ON THIS TOPIC (bashing the brotherhood)!!!

    Anyone have access to a MUTT HUNTER?

    WHERE'S CAPTAIN GONZO & THE IACOJ WHEN YA REALLY NEED EM?!?!

    (Maybe I just didn't read up far enough...)

    Anyway...Stay Safe Brothers & Sisters!!!
    The bottom line is that this guy has an absolute right to publish a document that freely expresses his opinion. His article didn't slander or libel anyone. Libel doesn't occur just because someone prints something controversial or unpopular. Many people have died defending this freedom that is the foundation of our free society.

    One also has the freedom to post here, whether it be a rational response to the issue or a childish rant with no point whatsoever. That is the beauty of a free society.

    God Bless America.

  5. #30
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    I couldn't let it go without comment.....MUTT

    I read with horror how easily Dougie boy maligned my profession and issulted my brothers. You can ask any firefighter this question, any one and you'll get the same answer:

    Are you a hero? Nope, just doing my job.

    So why does Dougie boy feel it is necessary to point his sharp stick at a group of professionals, both pain and volunteer, that for the most part are underappreciated and underfunded. Jealousy maybe, or cluelessness.

    Sure we have a great work schedule, but we still work more than 40 hours a week. It not like we have some special hours or something. And thank goodness that there aren't more true emergencies. You see most places are understaffed, and have a hard time dealing with the calls they have. Perhaps Doug would rather there were even less Firefighters, so their lives could be put in even greater danger doing what is already a difficult job.

    As for the Stations tours, EMS, and search and rescue comment. Well the last time I checked, those were all in my job description. Perhaps before he put pen to paper he should have done a little research. Maybe even gone to a Fire Station.

    Everytime there is a major emergency or crisis, firefighters go to the top of the heap. We are lauded for doing what we call routine, and in the end, all the promises fall through, and we end up right where we were to being with. That fine, don't call us heros......we never thought we were in the first place.

  6. #31
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    I read this article and flashed and wrote a nastygram. Then took a breath and re-read the article. I do not agree with 99.5% of his statements.I do agree with his last paragraph though.

    None of this is meant to dispute that firefighters aren't valuable to the communities in which they work. They are. But our society is packed with unheralded heroes—small-town physicians, teachers in poverty-stricken neighborhoods, people who work in dirty, dangerous jobs like coal-mining to support a family. A firefighter plunging into a burning house to retrieve a frightened, smoke-blinded child is a hero. But let's save the encomiums for when they are truly deserved, not when they just show up to do their job.
    I am surprised at the venom in this and its sister thread though.People not likeing firefighters,fire laws and the job in general goes back to 1066 AD with the enaction of Couve-Feu right up to today.
    The author of this article is not alone in dislikeing the fire service nor are his opinions new. Instead of writeing emails to him and challenging his first amendment right which will lead to nothing but a circular and blue lightbar type arguement.
    I suggest if we want to make a difference in the fire serivice we not attack this author,we start with local leaders who lerk in the town hall and wish to cut our budgets. Work with the public to get rid of the Norman Rockwell idea of firefighters sitting in the station and just polishing the already shiny trucks and going to the big factory fire.Show the public your prevention mesures,most of all lets try to market ourselves better to an ever increaseing and diverse audience.

    Just my two cents.

  7. #32
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    Originally posted by stm4710
    I suggest if we want to make a difference in the fire serivice we not attack this author,we start with local leaders who lerk in the town hall and wish to cut our budgets. Work with the public to get rid of the Norman Rockwell idea of firefighters sitting in the station and just polishing the already shiny trucks and going to the big factory fire.Show the public your prevention mesures,most of all lets try to market ourselves better to an ever increaseing and diverse audience.

    Just my two cents.

    Do you honestly THINK that this is NOT already being done Jesse??
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  8. #33
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    Easy breesy ............
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  9. #34
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    I don't know; maybe it's the effects of the pain medication that I am taking for the arthritis, but I read Gantenbein's article twice and I wouldn't waste an email on him, other than to warn him that he is about to receive a mudslide of nastygrams.
    Look; he disagrees with the notion that being a hero is not automatic. He believes that there should be some noble and extraordinary effort put forth in order to use the title of hero. He has every right to offer a different perspective, albeit as unpopular as it is and expect to strike a sour note with the fire service for this article. I don't think that he didn't anticipate a flood of mail for his article. Perhaps the reason he wrote it? To me, the article was poking a stick at us; some was even tongue in cheek. Still some of it was lacking substantive proof, but he has a right to say that the word "hero" is over used.
    I remember a time when we were uncomfortable when we were referred to as heroes. Now, it seems that we are offended if we are not. Does it really matter what others with a limited knowledge of what makes us tick has to say anyway? He will not affect your budget. He will not set up your duty roster. He will not be at your next fundraiser, so does he really matter?
    We are working too hard at getting worked up over this one.
    I'm not defending the man. But I don't find his comments that offensive either.
    Don't cut him slack; just ignore him.
    CR
    Last edited by ChiefReason; 11-02-2003 at 05:03 PM.
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  10. #35
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    You guys are wrong. The title of the piece is "Stop Calling Firefighters heroes". He then tries to prove that in addition to firefighters not being heroes, they are lazy, greedy, overprotected and masters of "propaganda". If you don't want to call a firefighter a hero, that's fine. But to completely downgrade the profession is an insult to all of us, paid or volunteer, wildland or structural. He has his right to try to readjust the definition of a word used too often these days. But an attack on the personal attitudes and motivations of firefighters, even if in general, is not right.

  11. #36
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    Let the "author" of this drivel have his day in the sun. The sun will set, time will pass, and the issue of SI this was in will end up in either the recycle or trash bin.

    The day will come when he will dial 911 and our brothers and sisters will have to respond and save his sorry mutt backside....

    Just my 3 cents worth... captains have to pay a little more!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  12. #37
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    Art,
    Thasts what I was trying to say !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  13. #38
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    Originally posted by PFire23



    Do you honestly THINK that this is NOT already being done Jesse??
    Bank on it. It's not being done anywhere near enough.

  14. #39
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    Default Wrong!

    I have NOTHING to do with Sports Illustrated, or its parent company. My articles there were written as an independent journalist, which I remain. So your attempts to "get even" by posting the SI and CNN information is pointless.
    Last edited by douggant; 11-02-2003 at 09:35 PM.

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    Well... hmmm... how do we look at this? Could it be that this is the person that exercised his "rights" to bash us for the job that we do.

    Or could it be someone else that is just playing at being this... person...

    If it is this person... I ask a simple question... why do you right such trash as this? I am sure you have run across people that are less than desirable in your travels... but you dont paint the entire profession with the same brush.

    This would be the same if I accused all reporters of faking their stories... like with the "New Republic" and "The New Yorker".

    At least I give you that opportunity.
    Always remember the CHARLESTON 9

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  16. #41
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    Unhappy

    BorderPatrol:

    Please accept my apology about the inference to "jolly whackers". My intent was not to ridicule volunteers, and certainly that irreverant term doesn't apply to most volunteer firefighters.

    I had made the distinction between carrer and volunteer firefighters because the sports illustrated author was primarily attacking carrer firefighters. His comments were geared towards those who perform fire service for a source of income. (ie "cushy job" et al).

    Thanks for your understanding.

    Dan-
    You could learn alot from a dummy

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    Default Re: Wrong!

    Originally posted by douggant
    I have NOTHING to do with Sports Illustrated, or its parent company. My articles there were written as an independent journalist, which I remain. So your attempts to "get even" by posting the SI and CNN information is pointless.
    Alas...but you must remember this...

    Firefighters are also sports fans..who attend and watch sporting events. They also read magazines like SI. If the editorial staff at SI gets a message from Corporate asking why they are losing a bunch of regular subscribers after a certain issue came out, and they get a lot of complaint letters about the article....

    Are you that naive to think they won't put two and two together and kindly request that you no longer submit any further pieces of your "journalism" for future consideration?

    Frankly...I don't care what you think about us. We have been slammed by better "journalists" than you..and you know... in a recent Gallup poll of the most honorable professions in America, the one of Firefighter was in the top 10...journalist was nowhere to be found.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Wrong!

    Originally posted by douggant
    I have NOTHING to do with Sports Illustrated, or its parent company. My articles there were written as an independent journalist, which I remain. So your attempts to "get even" by posting the SI and CNN information is pointless.
    Dude, don't do this. You can't win here. Just let it alone.

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    Youre in the wrong place and around the wrong "profession" trying to defend yourself about things you stated in that article aintcha DOUGGART???
    You seem to not realize that you,my freind,are on OUR turf now and you will end up getting whats coming to you.
    You sure do have alot of balls coming on a site thats dedicated to the fire and medical services after talking all that trash about us on another site so I must give ya what little bit of credit you deserve on that one. LOL
    Furthermore,I have the strange feeling that you are either one of us that turned on us and is bashing us for some ungodly reason...or you are simply some "outsider" that tried but could never make it in the fire service!


    LOLOLOL @ CAPTAIN...ur right.....journalism can be found nowhere in the top 10....or even the top 40 for that matter. LMAOOOOO
    It these kinds of journalists we keep off the incident scenes simply because it is THEM...that could end up getting someone hurt.


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  20. #45
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    Douglas Gantenbein

    QUACK QUACK QUACK....

    Water off a ducks back mate.

    George, I have to agree with ya, he is on a hiding to none posting here about the subject.

    Douglas, I am not an independant Firefighter, as opposed to you as an Independant Reporter, thats what makes our jobs (I am a Voli by the way) different. In your job you need to keep what you are doing away from other journalisists lest they pinch your byline.

    In my job I have to trust the next guy with my health, safety, and sometimes my life. It IS that simple, I also have to trust them with my sanity sometimes, cause no one else understands as well.

    QUACK QUACK QUACK....

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  21. #46
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    Default WEB TEAM!!!

    The WEB TEAM needs to take out the trash, and get the smart *** out of here.

  22. #47
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    Exclamation The web team has been notified

    The WEB TEAM has been notified.

  23. #48
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    The Webteam is not going to ban someone for posting their opinions in a civil manner. Get over yourself.

  24. #49
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    Douglas Gantenbein + William Langewiesche = COWARDS

    Author description: Douglas Gantenbein has written for The Atlantic Monthly, The New York Times Magazine, Sports Illustrated, Popular Science, and Backpacker. Author of the Outside magazine column "The Gear Guy," he teaches at the University of Washington and is a member of Seattle Mountain Rescue, the oldest and largest volunteer wilderness rescue organization in the United States.

    Like I said earlier;I do agree with him with this comment. "But let's save the encomiums for when they are truly deserved, not when they just show up to do their job."

    But I also believe in this comment... "A man's greatest act of bravery is becoming a Fireman. Everything else is in the Line of Duty."

    Chief Croker, FDNY 1906







    BOYCOTT The Atlantic Monthly
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 11-03-2003 at 05:48 PM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  25. #50
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    Originally posted by ThNozzleman
    The Webteam is not going to ban someone for posting their opinions in a civil manner. Get over yourself.
    I knew one day we could agree on something.

    It's time that some people realize that fire fighters are not a protected class of people. Not everyone likes us.

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