1. #1
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    Question Probies getting overtime.

    How many departments give there probationary firefighters over time? I was in a discussion with some union members who have different opinions on this issue. Some feel that probies shouldnt get OT. some feel they should be picked last, and some think they shouldnt be offered any at all. There isn't very much OT. offered in my dept, therefore it is coveted. Lets have your opinions on this.

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    Im my dept the probies get all the overtime, unless they are unavaliable. The reason for this, SC is a right to work state, no union say here, and probies are cheaper. So thats how it works here, is it good, it is if you are a probie.
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    Thumbs down

    The way I see it, until I was passed off by the department to ride the Engine, Truck and Ambulance and also drive the ambulance, I wasn't going to put in for OT. That is one good way to get on a shifts bad side quick.

    "Okay Rook, drive the ambulance."
    "uhh... I'm not passed off to drive."
    "Allright, ride as charge on the box."
    "I can't do that either."
    "Can you ride the truck?"
    "Umm... no. All I have done is ride the bucket of the engine."

    It doesn't seem to bother other rookies, but it stopped me.
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    Our probies are allowed to get overtime same as everyone else. We have work details fairly regularly as we have minimum staffing requirements. Usually the older ff's will pass on anything less than 24 hrs leaving plenty for the newbies.

    Besides, how can probies get any experience if they aren't allowed to work?
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    It's really pretty simple. If the contract doesn't exclude them from overtime they get it, if it does they don't.

    By the way, I am one of those guys that never works overtime. I prefer the time off over the 1 or 2 days a year I might get. I know, I know that makes me unusual but so be it.

    FyredUp

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    In our department while on probation you're not in the rotation for regular overtime, like when we need to add someone to meet minimum staffing or a special event crew (usually for fireworks displays).

    However, you are eligible for overtime if your shift is recalled while off-duty. We're a small department so all shifts are usually recalled for most structure fires and usually one shift for station coverage if we have a river rescue call.
    Mark
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    IAFF Local 10

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    Here in New York a probie is not suppose to be eligible for MMOT for 6 months. But some of the probies first tours have been MMOT.
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 11-04-2003 at 08:27 PM.
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    Old local (20 guys)- no OT for you, probie!
    New local (1500 guys)- Mandatory OT for you, probie!

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    The problem with not allowing probies to work OT is that when no one takes the OT and you mandatory somebody, the probie goes home while a guy with years on the job has to stay. Doesn't seem quite right.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

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    Our dept has an "orientation" period when probies are checked off on basic stuff, such as driving, using our SCBA, using our radios, etc.. This orientation generally lasts for a month and the probies are on a 40hr work week at that time. During that period they cannot work overtime, as they don't count for manpower.

    After the orientation, they are still on probation for a year from the time they count as manpower, and they can work overtime whenever their name is up on the list.

    Probationary here mostly means that you can be fired without cause and without recourse. Does that mean we would allow two probies on a medic together alone, no probably not, but they can work overtime and can ride in charge of the medic with a senior guy. They cannot ride in charge on the engine though..

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    Where to start? On my department the Union keeps and maintains the OT list. A few chiefs ago the chief handled a problem that arose (somebody got skipped or something) by telling the union that if they knew so much, they could run the OT list. Well, 3 chiefs and a couple of interrim chiefs later, we're still running it.

    Once a probie is cleared for Minimum Staffing he's added to the bottom of the OT list - whoever has the most hours accumulated, plus one. Any OT that gets to him, he can take it. Interestingly, a probie is not elligible for holiday pay until he's been on the department for a minimum of 6 months, but can be on Minimum Staffing and get OT sooner than that, if he's already had his recruit school training and so on. And a probie can get OT as a result of a holdover on his first day, if he's on a call that runs past shift change.
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    In my Dept everyone on shift is approved for OT. A list is kept downtown and we are called in order. If you pass on the OT then you have to wait until they have gone through the list again and get back to you. We are usually only offered 12hr. shifts at a time. At about 300 bucks a pop not too many guys pass on OT.

    My next 2 OT's will buy me a spankin' new N6A.. I got approval from the Chief (wife)... LOL
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    My department offers OT to Probies. Our OT is on a rotation so when your name comes up it is your choice to take it or leave it.

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    We have to wait until 4 months of Probation have gone by to be eligible for OT. After that our OT is mandatory so you either work it when your turn is up or try to get someone else to take it for you.
    Proud to be an American, Union Firefighter!

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    Our probies have to wait 6 months to work OT's. But get a load of this Bravo Sierra, They have recently promoted two guys to Engineer before thier 6th month on the job!! I just don't undrstand.

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    Well where do i start!!! In house (where we a getting ready to negotiate our first contract) the part-timers get our O.T or the brand new Probie full time guy who is dating the chief's daughter.. I wish i wouldnt have got married so I could buy a new Kayak.

    Fraternaly yours,
    The boys of local 4322

    P.S I forgot to mention the probie refuses to join the UNION..




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    Originally posted by L4322M3U
    or the brand new Probie full time guy who is dating the chief's daughter
    Gee, local politics NEVER work that way, RIIIIIIGHT??
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  18. #18
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    When we complete the recruit academy and get shift assignments, we get put on the OT list at the bottom. You then rotate through as the list gets called. If you refuse, the next person gets the call, but you stay on top of the list. Refuse again, right to the bottom you go. This is all done by the union, administration has nothing to do with it other than requesting the people.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    In New Zealand you come off the rookie course elegible to ride a pumper but not a specialist truck. In addition you may not have two staff with less than one years service riding the same pumper so if there is one rookie on the crew, there will not be another on overtime.
    We ride short crews with just the Officer, Driver and two in the back so it really would leave a crew short on expereince if the two in the back were both rookies.
    Most of the time there has been plenty of overtime around so it has not been an issue lately, but the overtime is strictly rotated so everyone gets the same chance. Note that this is not the same as the same amount of overtime, but the same opportunity for it. Turning one down is the same as accepting one, and you go to the bottom of the list again. Overtime can be at any station in the district (or even in the City if we get short) so there is the opportunity to get to know other crews and others stations which is a plus for the rookie's learning experience.
    The rules were agreed between the employer and the Union so it is as fair as it can be and the few who gripe would probably gripe whatever the system was.

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    In my group of probies hired 3 years ago, we had members who worked OT before their first official day on shift. We have people who feel the probies shouldn't be eligible for OT, but the city says the union DON'T REPRESENT THEM!

    At the time, I thought they were being unfair, but with my department getting ready to hire 5-7 in the next few months, I now see their point. With minimum staffing, we get on average 12 - 24HR OT shifts per year.

    How do you only get 1 to 2 per year?

  21. #21
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    Overtime here is eligible for all who wish to work it. Time on the job is not a factor, and we only hire OT on a full shift basis. If you are hungry enough a firefighter can work around 30 OT shifts per year.

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