1. #1
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    Default Garmin Rino 120 In Emergency Service

    Has anybody used this product in ermgency operations yet? We are thinking of giveing it a try.
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    What kind of ops are you considering? A problem I see is it operates on the frs band. That means anyone else will be on it, as opposed to our vhf band, and the command post has another radio to monitor. It does look promising though, definitely worth watching for further development.

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    I guess my question is what type of ops?

    GPS is not accurate enough to position someone meaningfully on a fireground, and indoor use is tenous at best.

    For search & rescue use or finding coordinates for a helicopter I can see GPS having a big time use, but you could then use your fire radio to relay your coordinates.

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    Sorry about that, should have been more specific but I was in a hurry.

    Wildland fire operations in rolling hills terrain and search and rescue in similar terrain.

    We already have repeater capable high band radios in all of our vehicles and a lot of hand helds, so they would not be used for a primary means of communications, they would be a GPS unit first, a radio a very distant second.

    What we did like about them is the peer to peer positioning feature.

    If the IC wants a check in, just key the transmit button once, you dont even have to talk, and all units in range would appear on his GPS display. If you have the RINO programed acrodingly, you could have B1 B2 B3 for respective brush trucks, T1 T2 for tenders, IC for the Chiefs unit, etc... If you are looking for the water tender to refill during pump and roll, you could ask the tender for a fix, he could key his RINO, and his location would pop up on your display if he was within 2 miles. The RINO will then give you basic direction finding to the water source.

    Our biggest concern is range, the positioning feature works only on the FRS frequency, .5 watts, theoriticly 2 miles.

    I own some cobra FRS radios personaly, and I have had excellent results. I have been able to talk on them from up to 3 miles away in our terrain, a mile over their 2 mile advertised limit.

    If this would apply to the RINO, then you would be able to fix locations of any unit withing 2-3 miles. This should cover 75% of initial attack on most of our wildland calls, if it goes into extended attack and you get beyond that 3 mile best case range, then you can always go back to calling in coordinates. This would be a great help to the IC in getting a feel for who is where. It may also add a measure of safety to the chaotic initial attack enviroment on a rolling wildfire.

    Another thing to consider is that you might just get a neat little tactical radio as a bonus to your GPS. If we would get our own GMRS frequency (range 5 miles) then would could have a back up tac radio to compliment our big expensive Motorolas/Bendix Kings. While not as capable, it would not be beyond the realm of reality to issue a RINO to every fire fighter. This is no possible with a 1000$ dollar radio for us, but it may be possible with a 200$ RINO. With the GMRS you have the ability to license your own frequency for your area from the FCC, and you also have voice scrambling for secure communications. A sort poor mans encryption.

    Possible Pros of the RINO approach:

    - Good GPS unit with a bonus FRS/GMRS radio
    - Position Reporting withing 2-3 miles (best case for our terrain)
    - A back up tactical radio system that could possibly be issued to every fire fighter
    - Exclusive GMRS frequency with scrambling so you can cuss and talk crap on the radio...
    - Water proof, supposidly can be submerged to 1 meter and still work
    - Inexpensive! For the cost of a midrange GPS you can get a ton of features, position reporting, and a back up radio system, all for a fraction of a single emergency style high end radio, and they are supposed to be very rugged as well!
    - Wave of the future for search and rescue. A LOT of boy scouts, outdoorsmen, etc... will be useing RINO. It would be great to have a way to easily find them when lost.
    - The FRS is fast becomeing the CB of our age. Lots of families use this raido band. If some public education was done, we could use our FRS capability to communicate with citizens in the even of a disaster. It may just save a life someday. We can always go to GMRS to get away from the FRS traffic, or even better, go back to the high band radio.
    - There are GPS navigation sytems for emergency service use, but then you are talking 3000-4000 per vehicle to equip them, with RINO you could issue them right along witht he PPE to each FF.

    Possbile Cons of the RINO approach:

    - Inadequate range for the radio feature
    - First generation technology. RINO type systems will no doubt be a future feature in emergency service. This tech will mature and likely become a standard issue device to all wildland fire fighters. Buying the RINO 120 may be jumping the gun a bit.
    - Not compatable with our high band communications.
    - Interfearance from non FD RINO users. I am not clear on this, if you can make a user group that would block out unwanted RINO position reporting. You can keep the GMRS pretty clean from what I gather.
    - Training curve. It is a new piece of technology, traing with it will be a deciding factor in its success.


    I know we are going to get 2-3 of them for testing, but I was currious if anybody has tried them already, for emergency or non emergency use.

    Thanks
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    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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    Do images work on this forum?


    ]


    Map Page
    The Rino® 120 features a detailed electronic map that shows your location, waypoints you've marked and stored, cities, streets, rivers, and more. This screen is shown with optional detail from the MapSource® Topo CD-ROM. The face icons are your contacts or other Rino users who've called you and automatically sent their position data. Each time they call, their position will be updated on your map display.
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    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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    Map Page on a "Goto"
    When you tell Rino to "Goto" a point, the Map Page draws a straight line to your destination. The dotted lines indicate your track log, or the path you've traveled, as well as the track log of your contacts.


    An IC could realy keep on top of locations and who was moveing where with this. Hell, you could even get a general outline of the fire buy some guess in regaurds to the paths indicated on your map.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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    Radio Page
    From the Rino's Radio Page, you can select a channel and squelch code so you can talk with your buddies with less chance of interference from other radio users.


    Still, my biggest concern is the radio feature. I cant wait until we can get thise in a fire service high band radio...

    Then again, it will cost 5000-6000 dollars and do basicly the same thing...

    For our limited budget, this RINO may just be the way to go, its no like we are going to give up our current high band equipment, we would just be adding GPS units that happen to have FRS/GMRS radios incorporated and some other very neat features.

    Boy, I am doing a good job of talking myself into these!

    I will simply have to get few for evaluation.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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    OK, last image. This one IMO is worth a lot of words. You could find access points, egress points, safety zones, etc... All from some intuitive resoning and from looking at the information on that screen (add topo map for best results).

    Maybe thats being to optimistic, but if you communicate well with your felow RINO users a lot of info would be at your fingertips.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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    These radio/GPS units were featured in the first episode of the History Channel TV series "Tactical to Practical". http://www.historychannel.com/global...ies&Id=8826020
    The series which focuses on civilian products which have their roots in military technology showed wilderness Search and Rescue teams using Rino units to stay in touch with their command post while conducting a field exercise for the cameras.
    It is true that the Rino radios are First Generation technology but it is hoped that this will catch on in the public saftey sector and result in Motorola or other manufaturer putting out a simular model.
    Another group hoping to see this technology progress is the Ham Radio community. Already Hams like me are using a simular system called Automatic Position Reporting System (APRS) which combines a GPS receiver with our VHF radios to send out position reports and even text/packet messages through a worldwide network of satellites and ground based repeaters. At the moment the technology is not plug and play and continues to evolve as people experiment with uses for it. With APRS we are able to send out our locations to others and send and receive mesages from those stations. We also can add a laptop/notebook computer running a program named UI-View which will display and track APRS Ham Radio stations on a map in a way not unlike the technology used by Law enforcement agencies, taxi services and delivery and trucking companies.
    For more info on APRS as used by Ham Radio Operators check out this great article at: http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/ap...reporting.html

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    Cell, do you think it would be a good idea to go with the RINO 120, or should we wait? Would they be cost effective in your opinion?

    On that note, we need more GPS units the way it is, so if we dont get the RINO, we will be spending 200 or so on a GPS unit (RINO or no) anyway.

    I too hope that we see a emergency services based "RINO" soon, but I fear that the old 100% mark up rule will apply and we will be paying thousands for a hot rod RINO.

    As things stand right now, we have some money we just raised from a fundrasier. We have our basic needs covered.

    The department as a whole has identified GPS units as an area we need to improve upon. We dont have enough to go around, and our current units are OLD with the exception of a single Garmin GPS III.

    We use GPS a lot here in MT, all federal agencies which we have contact with use GPS exclusively for fire reporting and dispatch. We need GPS units, no exceptions.

    So, why not just go with the RINO?

    We have about 5000$ pooled together from various fund raiser efforts. I have already found the RINO 120s for 200 dollars a unit. We have 30 members currently. That would be 6000$ dollars to issue a RINO to each FF. I am sure the Fire District would help us out with the remainder. Also, we havent even tried for the bulk discount or the Voly FD discount or any matching money from a grant of some sort or from local sources.

    This would give us a handy tactical radio back up in our GPS package.

    Damn, the more I talk about it the more convinced I am. I would realy like to see second generation tech first, but as with all of this electronic stuff, if you wait for the next best thing, you will be waiting for ever.

    In reality, since we can do the project now, I would just as soon do it.
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    I'd say start small. Buy one for each company/squad leader for now. Let everyone get used to the radios and have a little time to get hooked on them. It won't be long till some of your people just buy thier own radios and take it off thier taxes at the end of the year.
    Here are a few links I found while googling-

    GPS Navigator Magazine article includes the Garmin Rino Radios:
    http://www.gpsnavigatormagazine.com/...ations_phones/

    The rinos are recommended by the DELMARVA Search and Rescue Team-
    http://www.delmarvasar.org/delmarvas...tml?group_id=4

    The testimonials from the Garmin site are sure to increase sales-
    http://www.garmin.com/products/rino120/testimonial.html

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    I own one of these units, the newer ones are better than the original ones (there have been recalls on this unit). The radio is rather wimpy because it is on the FRS band. It is important to note the position sending only works on the FRS and not the GMRS band, and the position can only be sent every 30 seconds. The GPS part of this unit works very well, I usually have accuracy about 12 feet.

    If you want more info, check out these forums. They’re full of GPS geeks (such as myself) and they will probably know the answer to any question you might have.

    http://ubbx.groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?...1&f=9256035731

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    If this would apply to the RINO, then you would be able to fix locations of any unit withing 2-3 miles. This should cover 75% of initial attack on most of our wildland calls,

    LOL...if we needed 2-3 miles on a brush fire, half the state and all the TV helicopters would be out here Thank goodness for terrain, fauna, and weather...Connecticut only sees a couple hundred+ acre fires a year. That said I've seen a handful of small areas go fast

    I see the point to the IC getting a fix on all the units automatically.

    Maybe you could contact Garmin's marketing department and see if they're looking for any fire departments to evaluate/demo them -- even if you buy the units at cost or something. Worth a shot before paying retail especially if you haven't seen them used like that before.

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    I have just become interested in GPS in the last couple of weeks. There is a sport called geocaching wich is basically a internet/gps scavenger hunt. This has potential to be a good training tool and fun to boot.
    www.geocaching.com

    good luck

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    OK. A few things need to be said here before someone blows a lot of money on something

    1. Yes, the GPS telemetry thing is REALLY cool.

    2. You are NOT going to get 2-3 miles of it. They advertise 2-3 miles because if you had a brush fire in the Nevada Salt Flats and you stood on top of aerial tower, you could get two miles. If you are in the terrain you describe, FORGET IT!! 1/2 a watt with that pathetic stubby antenna isn't going to do jack.

    3. FRS channels are historiclly full of every child and their friends and parents playing hide & go-seek, cops & robbers, and any other game you played as a kid. They also go briskerk with the 3,000 different attention tones the various radios can generate.

    4. The GMRS channels have a little more wattage, probably 2.. MAYBE 5; I don't remember off hand. The law prohibits you from using these channels. You need a license first of all and they will not grant a GMRS license to a fire department. You could use it illegally like 90% of the other users but that is very bad form when it comes to a public safety entity.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Originally posted by Cellblock776
    I'd say start small. Buy one for each company/squad leader for now. Let everyone get used to the radios and have a little time to get hooked on them. It won't be long till some of your people just buy thier own radios and take it off thier taxes at the end of the year.
    Thanks for the links and input, I agree, start very small for evaluation. If they are bad, at least we have a GPS unit after the fact.

    It won't be long till some of your people just buy thier own radios and take it off thier taxes at the end of the year.


    This is a new one on me??? Could you elaborate a bit? I didnt realise that you could buy gear like that and take it off your taxes. Can you deduct the full cost?

    Thanks
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    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    If this would apply to the RINO, then you would be able to fix locations of any unit withing 2-3 miles. This should cover 75% of initial attack on most of our wildland calls,

    LOL...if we needed 2-3 miles on a brush fire, half the state and all the TV helicopters would be out here Thank goodness for terrain, fauna, and weather...Connecticut only sees a couple hundred+ acre fires a year. That said I've seen a handful of small areas go fast

    I see the point to the IC getting a fix on all the units automatically.

    Maybe you could contact Garmin's marketing department and see if they're looking for any fire departments to evaluate/demo them -- even if you buy the units at cost or something. Worth a shot before paying retail especially if you haven't seen them used like that before.
    That is one hell of a good idea! We would love to be the guine pigs! I will give that a try!

    Boy, I wish we had your problem with wildfire, we have very few fires that are under a hundred acres! The distance that our units can get spread out could easily out distance the range of the RINOs on a hard running fire. We are in Montana by the way.

    Here is a more extream example from recent time that comes to mind.

    2 years ago, Halloween night we had a prarie fire start about dark, winds gusting to 60MPH. It made a run of 15 miles in about 5-6 hours and ended up being 3 miles wide at the widest, it jumped a number of roads and highways, and was only stoped by a big backfire which nearly got away itself!

    The RINO position reporting would not have been that effective on a fire like this, but you still have the GPS feature and your high band radios to fall back on.

    For most of our routine fires, the 2 mile position reporting would be adequate, if it works as advertised that is.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Originally posted by nmfire
    OK. A few things need to be said here before someone blows a lot of money on something

    1. Yes, the GPS telemetry thing is REALLY cool.
    Right on. I have the feeling this technology will be a mini revolution of sorts in the GPS world.

    Dont worry, we are likely to only get 3 of them at first for testing. If they are crap, at least we have the GPS feature which has been getting good reviews from what I gather.

    I would realy like to see a high band version, but that may take a while and it would likely be much much higher priced.

    2. You are NOT going to get 2-3 miles of it. They advertise 2-3 miles because if you had a brush fire in the Nevada Salt Flats and you stood on top of aerial tower, you could get two miles. If you are in the terrain you describe, FORGET IT!! 1/2 a watt with that pathetic stubby antenna isn't going to do jack.
    I agree that this is a very optimistic range. I have gotten 3 miles out of my personal FRS Cobra brand radios, 50 dollar a set at walmart. They were getting scratchy at 3 miles but you could still communicate. If the RINOs end up being < a mile range, then the postion reporting is not going to work for our purposes.

    3. FRS channels are historiclly full of every child and their friends and parents playing hide & go-seek, cops & robbers, and any other game you played as a kid. They also go briskerk with the 3,000 different attention tones the various radios can generate.
    True enough. But, that is also one of the positives. All of the youth groups that I know of in our area use FRS and GMRS radios for their outings. Some are considering going with RINOs to aid in any possible S&R emergencies. While not a sure fire approach, they are better then nothing.

    We are considering getting FRS/GMRS radios for just such situations. They are too cheap not to have, just in case. FRS/GMRS is fast becomeing a legitimate tool for emergency services if for no other reason to rescue lost soles and such.

    I have read that some emergency services, dispach centers and such are at least getting scanners set up to monitor FRS and GMRS frequencies. This is in the even that there is an emergency and somebody only has a 15 dollar walky talky.

    Some sheriff offices have been buying FRS/GMRS combo radios for their patroll units. There are a lot of neigborhods that have their own little FRS radio network. They do neiborhood watch stuff and use them in emergencies. They are getting organize and some even have monthly drills. LE agencies have recognized this and are getting these radios to interface with such grass roots efforts.

    "Hey Bob, I heard something outside my window, look over in my front yard and see what you see." "Yeah Joe, there is and ax murderer in your lilac bush, he looks hungry" "Copy, Honey, dial 911 and bring me my shotgun" "Come on back Joe, this is Rosco P Coaltrain, ya got cher ears on?" "Roger that sheriff, we a have a fox in the hen house over." "Roger that Joe, on the way with bells and blinkers, hang tight good buddy!"

    Damn those Duke Boys, Damn them to Hell, they have forever scared my radio dicipline!!!

    4. The GMRS channels have a little more wattage, probably 2.. MAYBE 5; I don't remember off hand. The law prohibits you from using these channels. You need a license first of all and they will not grant a GMRS license to a fire department. You could use it illegally like 90% of the other users but that is very bad form when it comes to a public safety entity.
    There is nothing stopping us from licnseing them privately if we must. In the event of an emergency, I am sure the local Boy Scout group would not mind up useing their GMRS channel, especial if we were looking for a lost youth who may have such a radio!

    And, as I mentioned, we wouldnt be useing these all the time, they would be a distant second line tactical radio in the event of trouble with our high band tactical hand helds. While not ideal, they are better then a cell phone in our area, we have VERY VERY poor cell coverage. While a nextell emergency service cell would be a better second tier com system, we dont have that option. This is a remote occurance, but it has happned before.

    And to be honest, our area, rural Montana, has very little radio traffic of ths sort yet. There would likely be zero FRS/GMRS traffic when we are out on a wildland fire call. The only possible exception would be the land owner or reporting party, in which case it might be very beneficial to have some sort of communication with them, however limited.

    Our fire district covers 740 square miles and is very sparcely populated. We have pretty much congestion free airwaves, with CB on the way out, FRS/GMRS being used by a lot of ranchers and other groups, but not to the point of congestion.

    If we are on a interface situation or structure fire, we may encounter more radio traffic. But, as I mentioned, these are not our primary coms system.

    Which does bring up another issue. As things stand right now we cant afford high band radios for all of our FFs. This is only going to get worse with Project 25 compliant radios and their higher price. We are supposed to be going P25 radios since all federal agencies (USFS, BLM, etc...) are switching over. We are talking 5000$ a radio from here on out. We can MAYBE buy 1 a year on our own, and baring a grant it will be a very long process to get P25 for us.

    Which brings me back to the FRS disposable radios. If that is all we have available to equip every FF, then IMO it may just be better then nothing. Yelling and hand signals are not as good as a short range radio IMO. At least you have some non line of sight way to communicate, even though you may be limited to less then a mile.

    But enough jabber mouthing, I will just give you a small picture of what I envision with a RINO:

    Imagine a stand against an interface wildfire at a cabin with defensable space. Our heavy CAFS unit is parked arse to the fire and has 2 lines deployed to either side of the cabin, laid out can charged. A crew of 5 is deployed, squad leader (Captin if you will) has a high band hand held and is in motion moveing about the scene sizeing up. The truck operator has his headset on and is plugged into the truck radio.

    We only have 2 guys that have high band communications available, the other 3 FFs are relying on hand signals and yelling.

    Now give all them RINOs (or FRS/GMRS radios of any sort). You have your approxmately 1 square mile area with talkaround capability that does not reach out beyond your squad. You are not interfrearing with comand and control since your truck radio and your squad leader radio are not used for local squad tactics.

    The smoke gets thicker, turns into a fog bank. Out come the Hot Shields (which make yelling nearly impossible), the conditions are workable, but you can only see 5-10 feet in front of you. You have one guy on each line, your CAFS operator keeping an eye on the truck, and your squad leader remaining FF doing their thing. You have 4-5 people that likely can not see each other, but they have at least a basic but limited talk around ability.

    I see a lot of uses for these "disposable" radios in our area.

    And even better is the RINO with its GPS features. So many possibilities.

    I know that something better will come along, but is that not always the case?
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Just some links, a FRS/GMRS FAQ and some info on FCC licnes for GMRS.


    http://www.gmrsweb.com/gmrsfaqa.html


    http://www.gmrsweb.com/gmrsbarriers.html
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  21. #21
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    GRMS licenses do not cover "groups". Every single person would have to get their own license. A GMRS license covers the licensee and his immidiate family. Just keep that in mind, as long as you are willing to fork over the $75.00 each for the license. I get the impression that there aren't any other co-channel users anyway, but it is up to you.

    I agree the cost of "real" radios is outrageous, especially the Project 25 compient ones. Plus, any new license you get (analog or P25) will be Narrow Band and a lot of old stuff won't do that.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by nmfire
    GRMS licenses do not cover "groups". Every single person would have to get their own license. A GMRS license covers the licensee and his immidiate family. Just keep that in mind, as long as you are willing to fork over the $75.00 each for the license. I get the impression that there aren't any other co-channel users anyway, but it is up to you.

    I agree the cost of "real" radios is outrageous, especially the Project 25 compient ones. Plus, any new license you get (analog or P25) will be Narrow Band and a lot of old stuff won't do that.
    It is true that the RINO radio feature leaves much to be desired. The GMRS rules and regs are a likely hang up.

    But, when you consider it just as a bonus to a decent GPS unit, it makes the RINO a bit more atractive then just a GPS only unit, at least IMO.

    WOW, I didnt realise that the license was 75$ a piece!

    We do have a lot of related people on the department (no redneck jokes damint!!! ) so maybe we could get by with fewer licensed people.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  23. #23
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    Resisting redneck joke...................

    Maybe the FCC will buy into the whole "Brotherhood" thing of the fire service???
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by nmfire
    Resisting redneck joke...................

    Maybe the FCC will buy into the whole "Brotherhood" thing of the fire service???
    LOL, or maybe the Chief could adopt all of us.

    "Hi, Im Larry, this Darril, and this is my other brother Darril."

    Here is an in depth review of the RINO:

    http://gpsinformation.net/rino/rinorev.htm

    Has anybody heard anything about this type of technology coming out for the fire service any time soon?
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  25. #25
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    Here is a forum discussion of the RINO.

    http://ubbx.groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?...8331&m=9146026

    Seems like a lot of things have been fixed from the early models, the radios are improved supposedly.

    It seems like a software driven system...

    I am willing to bet that there will be hacks that you can find on the internet that will do interesting things to it...

    Like bost the FRS transmit power to the GMRS range or higher...

    Maybe even let you program in your own frequencies, OMG that would rock, being able to use our high band frequencies!!!...

    Like alowing data transmission on non FRS frequencies...

    LOL, most of these things are very likely FCC violations, but that never seems to stop the techies and hackers. I know that you can not transmit data on a GMRS frequency, hence the FRS only PTP positioning.

    I have no idea what the rules regaurding reprograiming a RINO may be, but I am sure they run about 10,000 dollars and day and have some sort of life long ban attached.



    "The FCC wont let me be or let me be me so let me see..."

    God forbid we have afordable and effective communications!!!

    Lets make sure we go Project 25 so we can sell off a fire truck just to be able to talk to each other!!!

    Lets make sure that we dont have disposable electronics, we need radios that cost more then some of our brush trucks!!!

    lets make sure we dont do things the easy way, lets keep it hard!!!

    Sorry, end of rant.

    This sort of thing is very frustraiting for small budget departments.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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