1. #1
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    Default Two-inch ATTACK versus 1 3/4" or 1 1/2"?

    Looking for your experience and views on two-inch attack lines, as opposed to 1 3/4" or even 1 1/2" lines? It seems there is a lot to be gained from running in 2" lines, especially off low-pressure stand-pipes. Anything in terms of flow-rate versus ease of advancement versus handling characteristics? It seems also that the 2" line is far easier to work with than 2 1/2"?

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    We're pretty happy running 2". We decided to make a compromise line with 200' of 2" with a 1" sb. Reasonable pressure, no noticeable weight gain, but packs a wallop. We're considering testing it in longer lays as the basis for a step down lay of 300' or so.

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    Thumbs up Got It, Use It, Love It............

    I have used it since the 1970s. Good flow, lighter and easier to handle than 2.5, Generally, a good line for structural firefighting. I am a proponent of only having 4 hose sizes for the Fire Service. 1" for Non Structural Fires, 2" for Structures, 3" can be attack or supply, (Yes, I have a 3" handline nozzle) and 5" for supply line. Works for me. Stay Safe....
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    Thanks for your reponses so far - with 66 looks at this thread I am a little surprised that only two responded with feedback. Is that because 2" lines are still not widely used? If so why not? Back in the 1980s I know they were tipped as natural replacements for the other attack line sizes.........why the delay in progress? Also - what are the flows you are achieving with this size hose and could they not easily be achieved with 1 3/4" lines? I do understand the principal of limited pressures from stand-pipes etc.

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    We've grown to like it for longer lays than what a standard line would handle. We would normally run 150' on the 1-3/4", but can add up to 250' and still have a fair line for a quick attack. The friction loss is lower (based on the programs we've verified), so we can deliver more gpm at a slightly longer line. The only thing we back up the 2" with is the 2-1/2" though.

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    Batt18, My department has moved from 1 3/4 to 2 in the past two years. I don't really know enough about the topic to give you hard data or stats. But I have used it and it is just as easy to move around in a structure as 1 3/4 and it does pack a little more punch. But unfortunately my department uses automatic nozzels, not solid bore BUT LETS NOT GO THERE!!!

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    Batt18...

    We have used 2 inch hose for about 7 years now. Initially it was purchased to replace the 2 1/2" lines but the FF's started always going for the 2 inch for working structure fires over the 1 3/4" crosslays. So the then chief decided we should go all 2".

    Our first nozzles were combination nozzles flowing 250 at 50 psi. But after further testing we bought 200 at 75 psi break aparts with a 15/16" slug tip. As we worked with the lines and further tested we had the 15/16" tips bored out to 1 1/4" and now flow around 300 at about 40 psi through the slug. Our initial pump pressure gives about 55 psi at the combination tip for a flow of around 160 gpm, if more is needed we bump to 200 at 75, and if that isn't enough the combo goes and we flow 300 at 40 with the 1 1/4" tip.

    We carry 1 inch forestry hose for brush fires and class a foam application during overhaul, 2 inch is our workhorse attack line, next is a preconnected deluge hooked to 200' of 3 " hose or a mid mounted deck gun, supply is 1050' of 5 inch. Becuase we had surplus 1 3/4 inch hose we also have 100' of 1 3/4" hose as a trashline.

    Basically for us it isn't harder to move than 1 3/4 inch hose with the punch of 2 1/2 inch hose.

    FyredUp

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    Default Re: Got It, Use It, Love It............

    Originally posted by hwoods
    I am a proponent of only having 4 hose sizes for the Fire Service.
    Me too.

    - non-structural line

    - attack line

    - big attack line or small supply line

    - big supply line


    Now in my area, you're going to see
    1" -- 1.75" -- 2.5" -- 5" as our four.

    hwoods was
    1" -- 2" -- 3" -- 5"

    In other areas of the country you might see
    1" -- 1.5" -- 3" -- 8"

    All depends on your water supply tactics and strategies, personnel, and how you play the game I guess. So I agree on the 4 sizes of hose, but I guess the actual measurements can vary from department to department. Just make sure you have adapters, both for different sizes, different threads, and different couplers with your mutual aid departments!

    PS - we used to use 200' 2" with 2.5" storz connections as our primary handlines. We've since switched to 1.75" with threaded connections.
    Last edited by Resq14; 11-06-2003 at 05:39 PM.
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    PS - we used to use 200' 2" with 2.5" storz connections as our primary handlines. We've since switched to 1.75" with threaded connections.
    That's of interest Resq14 - Why the change to 1 3/4"?

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    Default 1 1/4" tips on a 2" handline?

    I was always taught that a rule of thumb regarding smooth bore tips was to never use a tip bigger than half the diameter of the hose itself.
    FyredUp said that he uses 1 1/4" tips on a 2" handline. Does that effect the stream at all? How does everything react?
    Any opinions on this? My company doesn't use smooth bores (to my dismay) so I can't really make an educated answer here.

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    FORTff.....

    We experimented with various tip sizes and found that the 1 1/4" smoothbore gave us slightly less than 300 gpm at around 40 psi. The stream is usable and actually looks okay. It is in no way as pretty looking as a stream from a full length 1 1/4" tip like on stacked tips because it is after all coming from a slug tip.

    Our thought process was really quite simple. We wanted to flow the most water at the lowest nozzle pressure out of one size of handline. We run very short of people for the first few minutes on many days so having a single sized handline with varying flows and tip options was our choice.

    Would what we do work everywhere? I don't know, but I do know it works for us.

    FyredUp

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    Cool thanks a lot!!

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    Originally posted by Batt18
    Is that because 2" lines are still not widely used? If so why not?
    Take a look at some of the people that the "kinder and gentler" fire department allows to ride apparatus these days. People who couldn't tell the difference between an 1&1/2 and a 2 inch. People who had reach let alone pull a crosslay, or god forbid a leader line. I think a lot of places are losing folks who can effectively handling these size lines.

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    Originally posted by Igotgorm


    Take a look at some of the people that the "kinder and gentler" fire department allows to ride apparatus these days. People who couldn't tell the difference between an 1&1/2 and a 2 inch. People who had reach let alone pull a crosslay, or god forbid a leader line. I think a lot of places are losing folks who can effectively handling these size lines.
    Huh? what? duh?

    Brothers and Sisters...I think we have someone trolling here...let us not take Igotgorm's bait...

    Batt 18

    The two inch attack line is my preference. It is light enough to be easily moved about, yet packs the wallop when you need it.

    Back in the 1980s I know they were tipped as natural replacements for the other attack line sizes.........why the delay in progress?
    I think this is more of a funding issue opposed to a progress one. A lot of FD's bought 1.75" lines when they were the next big thing. There is a psychological factor, too. People see 2" and think
    "that's a line for only the big one..." I have pulled 2" crosslays and most people can't tell the difference between the 1.75" except for the speed of knockdown.

    Harve...

    I have been to a few incidents where we used a 3" "handline"...takes a lot of manpower to put into position, but for knockdown power...yeeehah!
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    Batt18:
    The 2 inch hose is a great offensive weapon when matched with the right nozzle. For mobility, you would want a nozzle that is going to give you a lower pressure and a high volume of water. You don't want something that is going to kick the snot out of your people; nor do you want to tie up a lot of personnel on one hose, so less nozzle reaction, low pressure and mass quantities of water are certainly achievable with a 2 inch attack line.
    We did flow tests with 1-1/2", 1-3/4", 2" and 2-1/2" using smoothbore, combies and a "special" nozzle and if I recall, the 2" was superior. I am going to go to the station to find the info.
    But 2" is great for attacking big fire.
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    Hey ChiefReason - thanks for your input. I would really like to see that data - if it's too much to post then email me if possible - UK500@aol.com

    Thanks also for all other points made. It seems the two big advantages of 2" attack lines are maneuvrability and high flow. Optimised handling characteristics in comparison to advancing 2 1/2" lines and greater flows possible than 1 3/4" lines right? Also, I can see that greater NPs are available from lines run off standpipes and consider this an important consideration in choice.

    Whilst I can visualise the greater flows from 2" lines over 1 3/4" I cannot visualise, without testing, the reduction in stream reach by resorting to such large diameter nozzles? Surely there is a major reduction in reach? You say the streams are efficient? Flow versus reach.........

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    What's the usual friction loss "rule of thumb" on 2" hose? The usual nozzle diameter?

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    Talking Re: Re: Got It, Use It, Love It............

    Originally posted by Resq14


    Just make sure you have adapters, both for different sizes, different threads, and different couplers with your mutual aid departments!

    PS - we used to use 200' 2" with 2.5" storz connections as our primary handlines. We've since switched to 1.75" with threaded connections.

    I know the feeling on adapters. Last week we sent the Rookie out looking for a Storz double Male adapter, he has not returned.....
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    Batt18...

    We tested the 1 1/4" nozzle tip before we forged ahead with our current set-up. The stream is as good as any stream coming from a slug tip and has a range of almost 100 feet. We thought that was more than adequate for our community and fire situation. We were more than willing to give up some reach to gain flow from the 2 inch hose. For the most part interior firefighting in our community never calls for that much reach and for surround and drown ops if we need more reach we have multiple master streams or can go to smaller tips for more reach on the 2 inch lines.

    I know departments out east that use 1 1/8 inch tips on their 2 inch lines. I would suppose that the 1 inch tip is most common though.

    I know this...it so far has worked for us.

    FyredUp

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