1. #1
    Forum Member
    stm4710's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,713

    Default Whats your opinion on.........

    ........the future of the volunteer fire departments in the US? Im talking about staffing,training,financing,equipment etc. Do you see them increaseing/decreaseing in numbers? This was brought up in FS and I would like to get your well rounded and "crusty" opinions and ideas.

    Thanks
    dfd

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    33motor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    San Antonio, TX.
    Posts
    422

    Default

    Well, that's hard to say really. But I will give you my opinion.

    With the population increasing like it has I would say that slowly more and more VFD's will more than likely give way to becoming combo Dept's, and combo Dept's paid. The very small VFD out in the middle of nowhere will likely be just that for some time... but say 200 years from now, at the rate we're going.. it can likely be a small paid Dept. The main factor will of course be population, and it's likelyness to be drawn to any given area.

    I don't know how big my Dept was when it went paid in 1891, but I know it was nowhere near the size it is today of course. I can't help but believe that history will repeat itself. Right now there is a smaller city that is at the point that my city was back then.. maybe it will take that long to get that big, maybe it won't. Only time will tell for sure.
    http://www.sanantoniofire.org

    IACOJ
    Got Crust?

    We lucky few, ... we band of brothers

  3. #3
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western MA
    Posts
    3

    Cool stuff learned from FEMA

    One thing that FEMA learned from 9/11 is that it turns out that over 90% of the departments in america are either volunteer or on call. Something tells me that when 90% of departments have no full or part timers that things can't change. We learned this because a very very tired FEMA member out in Boston inform my friend's dad (a Volly chief in his town) of that fact and that a lot of those departments are in a very scary state. The main attack engine for his town is a '57 dodge.......

    I really can't see any of the towns going combo or full time even if we join up with others, cause if one town can't support it, then 3 towns can't combine to support 3 times the area. Our town is 1600 people when the private school is in session. we'd need like literally 10-20 times the population to support that.

    Of course the most hillarious part is every few months or so the towns get a call from FEMA or the state equivalent who will ask some questions like:

    "So how many beds do you have in your station?"
    "none."
    "But then how do you let your night staffing sleep?"
    "night staffing?"
    "yes, the people who man the station at night."
    "Nobody mans the station at night."
    "then what do you do about night calls?"
    "hope people wake up."
    "um, ok. moving on. How many people man the station in the day?"
    "none."
    "Well, what do you do about day calls?"
    "hope people leave work."

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    FFMcDonald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    N 41* 2.770' W 74* 7.338'
    Posts
    272

    Default

    I think that perception is a big part of the problem.

    I don't want to turn this into a Police vs. Fire debate - which it is not -- but rather bring up a point.

    The police exist to battle a percieved problem - lawless behavior in society, crime, etc...
    In the eyes of the general public- crime is a very real problem in their communities.
    think of how many politicians cite the fact that, "I put XXX number of police officers on the street during my tenure as YYYYYYYY"

    They never tell you how many firefighter they put on duty - they never tell you how much they cut from the FD while they were in office.

    In the eyes of the general public - fire isn't viewed as a "problem". Few people have had encounters with fire - whereas many people have had an encounter with their neighborhood thug - or had something stolen, etc...

    I don't think that the volunteer fire service will disappear.
    You mentioned staffing, training, financing, equipment, etc...

    These are all things/problems/dilemmas that face even the largest urban fire departments. Who would believe in the wake of the tragic events of the attacks at the World Trade Center on 9/11 that the FDNY would ever close firehouses -- yet it happened.
    And now the Chief of the San Diego Fire Department brings to light the problems that his FD faces?

    These problems are not only those of the volunteer fire service -- but of THE FIRE SERVICE.

    Our biggest problem - lack of a single voice. The fire service in the United States needs to identify its priorities - and then systematically stive to achieve the goals that it sets for itself.

    How long have have Police Departents been recieving grants from the federal government to outfit it's officers with bullet resistant vests -- and how long has the FIRE ACT been in existence.

    I know of 2 seperate departments whose receipt of a FIRE ACT grant has made the difference between night and day in the service that they are able to provide their community.

    Would a community send a police officer out to patrol - unless he/she was outfitted with the best equipment that money could buy-- Probably not. But will they allow their same community to be protected by an antique piece of fire apparatus. YOU BETCHA!!!!

    I hope I didn't ramble too much.
    And George -- I have nothing against the Police. I wish we [the fire service] was as organized as the Police are


    Do you see them increasing/decreaseing in numbers
    Marc

    "In Omnia Paratus"

    Member - IACOJ
    "Got Crust?"

    -- The opinions presented here are my own; and are not those of any organization that I belong to, or work for.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Damn, Marc.

    Why would I take offense at your post? You have said many of the things that I have been saygin for a long time. People perceive crime as an everyday threat to themselves. They want to see police officers out there and feel secure when they do. People percieve fire to be someone else's problem. It always happens one town away, or in the "bad" neighborhood. It can't happen to them. They actually feel more secure when the apparatus are in the station. People feel this way because (as I have said a million times) they have accepted that $1.3 billion in damage and 4500 lives per year is an acceptable loss. They can live with that.

    I think that the biggest problem facing the fire service, particularly the volunteer fire service, is this obsession with tradition and doing things the way we have always done them. You mentioned closing firehouses. What if you were to do an unbiased study, and you found out that you could deliver services in a more efficient manner by consolidating some companies and closing some houses, while opening new ones in a manner best suited to the 21st century instead of the 1940's or 50's? No manpower would get laid off, but a redistribution of resources. That would be a good thing.

    In the volunteer service, it is a fact of life that volunteer departments are being held to the same standards as career departments in many areas. My dad was Chief in 1972-1973. My brother will be Chief in 2004-2005. The jobs that they have to do are radically from each other. Why? Because the fire service changed. While I don't believe that the volunteer fire service will become extinct, I do believe that it's best chance for survival is to change. How?

    How many posts and articles do we read here about vol. departments having ****ing matches with each other over territory? Or some other inane topic like that. I think that there are many areas where VFD's must say to hell with traditional municipal boundaries and begin to coordinate responses so that the closest appropriate apparatus and manpower responds.

    Along with that thought, many vol. FD's should seriously consider regionalizing. By pooling manpower, equipment and resources, they will probably find that they can deliver services much more efficiently and cost effectively with the combined resources of a few departments than they can alone.

    With the increased demands on the department resulting from more stringent standards, reporting requirements and the like, I think it is likely that more career personnel will be added to vol.. departments. Regulators will not accept the mantra of "we're only volunteer". Also, many fire chiefs in larger vol. depts. are administering a budget that rivals those of the police and public works, minus the line item for salaries. These are factors which will require many departments to consider paid administrators in the coming years.

    Also, you may not like it,or you may be in denial, but we do not have the fire activity that we used to have. Don't argue with me about this because it is the truth. As such, vol. fire departments are going to have to adapt to this fact of life. How? By looking at delivering services such as EMS, fire prevention, hazmat and community education to name a few. Yes, it is possible that career personnel will have to be added to handle these duties. Funding? Who says EMS has to be free? Inspection fees are routinely charged in NJ and used to run the Code Enforcement Depts. Hazmat runs are reimbursible for time and materials. But this takes time and a new paradigm.

    I see the future of the volunteer fire service as we know it today as very bleak. I see the future of a volunteer fire service that wakes up and looks at the calendar and adapts to the times as very bright.

  6. #6
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    38

    Default

    I think the problem, as always, gets back to money. What does it cost to adequately equip a modern rural department? If you are talking police, in “most” cases, you do not need more that a couple of officers, you can do it for maybe 100 thousand total not counting wages; less if you look at using older used cars. You really cannot even get 2 firefighters out the door to a vehicle accident with that. And are you sending enough manpower? Proper extrication equipment alone can cost you 30 or 40 thousand. If you are using a small quick attack pumper/grass truck for fire protection at the scene, maybe another 75 thousand. Moreover, with that, you are just prepared for a vehicle accident. What about everything else we respond to? What will it take to prepare for a full-involved house fire? To outfit a police officer with gun, vest, leather, etc, maybe 1500, a firefighter with turnout gear, SCBA, etc, maybe 5000. It just cost A LOT more to do what we do. What are the liabilities a new volunteer Fire Chief has to take on his/her first day? Is it worth it anymore? I hate saying it, but with the number of "rules" we are being faced with complying with, and the additional responsibilities being placed on the fire service in general, I do not see a bright future for the fire service without the influx of BILLIONS of dollars.

    I think the idea of regional departments might work, but are fewer pieces of equipment farther apart going to cut it? In the county where I live, (a rectangle 24 miles by 22 miles) there are currently 10 departments, one paid, and 9 volunteer. We have unofficially talked about a county department with maybe five stations, one central, and one north, south, east, and west, but it could add 8-10 miles to a response distance. It does maybe make sense. Does EVERY department in the county NEED a fully equipped rescue truck, or do they really need just enough to get them by for the first 10 to 15 minutes of an event with the expectation of additional resources arriving within 15 minutes? There are possibilites, but it will still take a lot of money.
    Last edited by RedRider; 11-07-2003 at 03:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    firefighter26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Sooke, B.C.
    Posts
    945

    Default Re: stuff learned from FEMA

    Originally posted by mudflap85
    "So how many beds do you have in your station?"
    "none."
    "But then how do you let your night staffing sleep?"
    "night staffing?"
    "yes, the people who man the station at night."
    "Nobody mans the station at night."
    "then what do you do about night calls?"
    "hope people wake up."
    "um, ok. moving on. How many people man the station in the day?"
    "none."
    "Well, what do you do about day calls?"
    "hope people leave work."
    I like it...
    "No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."

  8. #8
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    July36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Those are exactly my points i have tried to stress in other posts(funding ones) REDRIDER...
    Some companies,like us,are within "welfare communities" where the people we serve do not have the money to support us....even though they WANT us.I will admit that there ARE people here that could care less if there was 5 FD's or none but thier are some people here that DO want us but just cannot afford to support us so we work with what we have...or what we can get our hands on from other Departments that are not in as much 'need' at least until we can do better with financing.This was a point I was trying to bring up to GOERGE in another post elsewhere but I wont bring that up again here.
    But my opinion is this...
    If the volunteer companies continue to be non-supported...and the grantgivers dont start thinking about US poor companies instead of those companies that are already somewhat "well-to-do"...then i see the Volunteers eventually closing thier doors.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Originally posted by July36
    Those are exactly my points i have tried to stress in other posts(funding ones) REDRIDER...
    Some companies,like us,are within "welfare communities" where the people we serve do not have the money to support us....even though they WANT us.I will admit that there ARE people here that could care less if there was 5 FD's or none but thier are some people here that DO want us but just cannot afford to support us so we work with what we have...or what we can get our hands on from other Departments that are not in as much 'need' at least until we can do better with financing.This was a point I was trying to bring up to GOERGE in another post elsewhere but I wont bring that up again here.
    But my opinion is this...
    If the volunteer companies continue to be non-supported...and the grantgivers dont start thinking about US poor companies instead of those companies that are already somewhat "well-to-do"...then i see the Volunteers eventually closing thier doors.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ
    Lady, you can put my name in capitals, you can bold it, hell I don't even care if you put it in neon lights. The problems in your department are not typical of the fire service and do not even merit discussion. Theproblem in your department is leadership. How do I know that? From this little tidbit from your last post on that other thread among other things.
    I hate this town..and most of the people in it simply because they care for nothing but themselves and are the very first to hollar and cry when they have a major incident...and nobody responds.
    Ok. Let's move on.

    RedRider: Excellent points on regionalization. When you break it out logically like that it makes alot of sense.

    But don't get bogged down in the cop stuff. It's a totally different job. Different mission, different tools, different problems, different way of doing things. It is like comparing apples to oranges when you go dollar for dollar. It is like comparing the cost of a housekeeper and a plumber. No comparison.

    Good post.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 11-08-2003 at 01:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    George...

    The least July36 could have done was have the courtesy of spelling your name right!

    RedRider brings up an interesting concept..the "R" word... regionalization. If it is done right it could work.

    Unfortunately, when the "r" word is mentioned, chiefs get defensive because they lose their little little fiefdom. Hell, there are some towns with three and four separate fire departments who can't get along, let alone in an entire county or region!

    The firefighters get defensive becuase they may have to work with departments who they have had "issues" with before (see section above)

    The politicians have no clue...they just see the "r" word as a way to save money. They think that all you need is one chief to run the whole show.... buy one truck and "share it" with another community (no joke... a selectman in a community nearby once stated "if we need a new Ladder truck, why don't we go in half with the town of (name deleted to protect the community). They are looking to buy a new truck to. we could share it..when they have a firem they could use it, when we have a fire, it can be ours! ) they
    have no concept of the costs of standarizing communications, equipment ot sop/sog's!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Regionalization them = cost cutting meant to reduce budget

    Regionalization us = a way to more efficiently provide service to a larger area, and reduce duplication of efforts

    Regionalization them = a way to get rid of all the brass, firetrucks, and personnel that we have way to much of.

    Regionalization us = the closest unit to the call, regardless of Town and City lines.


    Now I understand not all Fire Service members view it this way, but until the Municipalities stop letting the dollar completely drive their bid for Regionalization, Fire Departments will fight it. There will eventually be a cost savings thru a Regional Department, but it won't be right away. This has been discussed at great length in my County for years, the biggest stumbling blocks have been:

    1)Loss of control by Town Officials (not the Chiefs either)

    2)The Towns view of A la carte Regionalization, to save money where they can, but not provide the complete package.

    Suprisingly here, the Unions and Fire Department have supported it.
    Dave
    Last edited by hfd66truck; 11-08-2003 at 09:06 AM.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    I have always liked the idea of combining agencies to eliminate duplication of services.
    I have always liked the idea of providing assistance to departments who don't have the resources to mitigate an incident.
    I have always found the idea of regionalizing fire departments very interesting and worth investigating, because it offers the small towns and villages that populate our area the best hope for cost effective fire protection.
    I would likely support that effort in this area were it brought to fruition.
    With that said, here are some of the stumbling blocks that I see standing in the way:
    1)The biggest is taxes. When districts/departments are combined, debts are assumed and taxes are consumed.
    2)Local leadership wants to maintain control even though they may not be the most qualified.
    3)Allocation of equipment becomes a sticky wicket because someone will believe that they are getting the junk while others get "all of the new stuff". Someone will always feel screwed.
    4)Communities will support THEIR fire department and if their department doesn't want to combine, then that's good enough for them.
    5)Selling the product; i.e. combining fire departments will take a cooperative effort of firefighters, fire leaders, community leaders and citizens. Some people/groups simply don't like each other.
    I believe that if you get the right people involved from the beginning of the process, it will stand a much better chance of succeeding. But the biggest part of all with be bridging the diverse groups that must be on board for it to be successful; both in the beginning and ongoing.
    But I like the idea!
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  13. #13
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    July36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Lemme tell ya somethin GEORGE...YOU know jack about ME,MY COMPANY NOR the AREA I SERVE....but I DO...so you have no right stating things you do not know and besides...if you dont like me...then simply ignore me and dont reply to my posts!
    If you THINK you can do any better with a bunch of lame people like whats in the area I serve...then I invite you to come do it!
    Maybe once youve tried things ive done for funding...with "people" who simply do not care...then just MAYBE you will see my points!
    Furthermore...there is nothing NOTHING at all wrong with my leadership as many people have told me I have done well..not only with keeping the company and its members safe...but as well as keeping it operating regardless of funding.
    Now...you may take your negative "know-it-all" comments on outta here and find yourself a LIFE instead of being online 24/7!


    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default Did I hear what I just read?

    July36 wrote:
    If the volunteer companies continue to be non-supported...and the grantgivers dont start thinking about US poor companies instead of those companies that are already somewhat "well-to-do"...then i see the Volunteers eventually closing thier doors.
    Well, there's nothing like a good old fashioned defeatist attitude to rally the troops! For some reason, volunteer fire departments want to equate the money that they take in from their community as representative of their community support. Money is only one component. If a community does not support the fire department, then it is the fire department's fault. Who else delivers the services of the fire department? It's not the sanitation department. It's not the Lion's Club. So, if they is a perception that there is a lack of community support for the fire department, then it is up to the fire department to fix it. And it's not just in terms of money. But I will say that I have a hard time believing that a community can't give another nickel per one hundred dollars to the fire department for upgrades. Again, if the community isn't willing to do that, then the fire department is doing something very wrong. If a department is underfunded, waiting in line to get something from the "grantgivers" is a wait that might last an eternity; i.e. it might never come. I enliken departments waiting for money from the feds kinda like the people who frequent the unemployment office. If you spend all your time in the unemployment line, then you aren't looking for a job; you're looking for a handout in the form of an unemployment check. Same way with fire departments. We keep trying to get federal money, but won't have a local fundraiser. Why? Because everyone wants the big cash in one shot. They don't want to raise money and PLAN a project. They want Christmas to come early.
    And a blanket statement like:
    then i see the Volunteers eventually closing thier doors
    is NOT representative of the volunteer fire service. It is representative of those who believe that they are somehow entitled to a government bailout, because it's easier than fixing the problems that stand in the way of a local solution, which is exactly where it should be solved.
    July36 wrote:
    Now...you may take your negative "know-it-all" comments on outta here and find yourself a LIFE instead of being online 24/7!
    Now, I am not going to defend GeorgeWendtCFI here; he is quite capable of doing that himself. But this comment is about as negative as it gets and one that is made as if you are speaking for the entire volunteer fire service who have funding issues. July36 wrote:
    If the volunteer companies continue to be non-supported...and the grantgivers dont start thinking about US poor companies instead of those companies that are already somewhat "well-to-do"...then i see the Volunteers eventually closing thier doors.
    I will borrow from one of your lines and state that you DON'T know jack about me or my department or my leadership.
    Now; you two play nice.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  15. #15
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Cool Too Many Variables.........

    Coupla points from the posts here so far. Donna's right about one thing, The rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. No question. The FEMA grant program is a mess and needs to be redirected to where it will help those who NEED it, and not just those who WANT it. Before you all jump up to get the rope, If you got Firefighting Equipment with your grant money, we're on the same side. If you got exercise equipment or a fire prevention trailer, then you're among those who I group together with "Dogs of uncertain linage". We need to fund equipment first. Period. Getting back to the point of this thread, No, I don't think VFDs are going away. Yes, they MUST adapt to changing times, get into things that will help the community. The biggest obstacle to adequate Fire/Rescue services today is local government. The people who are really going to grow and prosper are those who find, and implement, a way to get their departments completely free of local government control of any kind. Another way to do well is to eliminate the competition for scarce tax dollars. Case in point, my dept. When a storm blows thru and dumps trees across the road, people call 911, and the VFD shows up with people and chain saws, and the road is open again, quickly. Why the VFD instead of the County highway Dept? Easy, We're FREE, The highway folks get paid, usually overtime. We can do it quicker, and cheaper. Make sense? sure it does. There's more. Some years back, we had a huge flooded basement problem and we were working day and night with a few old pumps. We did get some donations from our work, and we put the money in the right place, we bought more pumps. Today, a resident has a flooded basement, we loan a pump and hose to them. Brings in a few bucks in donations, but pays huge dividends in good will from the community. We need something, within reason, we get it. Some other groups get little support because they have done nothing to earn it. If I could tell you how to approach the future in one sentence, it would be "Think and act outside the box". Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    stm4710's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,713

    Default

    Thanks for the great responses guys,keep them comeing!

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Originally posted by July36
    Lemme tell ya somethin GEORGE...YOU know jack about ME,MY COMPANY NOR the AREA I SERVE....but I DO...so you have no right stating things you do not know and besides...if you dont like me...then simply ignore me and dont reply to my posts!
    If you THINK you can do any better with a bunch of lame people like whats in the area I serve...then I invite you to come do it!
    Maybe once youve tried things ive done for funding...with "people" who simply do not care...then just MAYBE you will see my points!
    Furthermore...there is nothing NOTHING at all wrong with my leadership as many people have told me I have done well..not only with keeping the company and its members safe...but as well as keeping it operating regardless of funding.
    Now...you may take your negative "know-it-all" comments on outta here and find yourself a LIFE instead of being online 24/7!


    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ
    July36...

    Your attack on George is totally uncalled for. Actually, we know a lot about "your" FD and community. You have complained about it since you first began posting. You want to know why the people in your community don't give a fat rat's rump about you and your FD?

    You insult them by calling it a welfare community. You posted "I hate this town". You play the "martyr" card for running the FD...It's no wonder they don't support you or the Bridge Canyon VFD
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    PFire23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    On a rock, surrounded by water
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo


    July36...

    Your attack on George is totally uncalled for. Actually, we know a lot about "your" FD and community. You have complained about it since you first began posting. You want to know why the people in your community don't give a fat rat's rump about you and your FD?

    You insult them by calling it a welfare community. You posted "I hate this town". You play the "martyr" card for running the FD...It's no wonder they don't support you or the Bridge Canyon VFD
    You know Ron, I couldn't agree more with your sentiment. I'll give you all a real life example: We recently had the Chairperson of our community enhancement society step down, (no love lost there I'll tell ya); anyway, I was given an opportunity to see a grant proposal she'd written for monies to be used for community events. I was very offended by what she'd written .... she'd used terms such as, Low-income families, broken homes ....... etc. Now irregardless of whether or not that is true for this area, I for one didn't like being described that way. For while I may not be the richest person in the world, I get by and do ok for myself; secondly, YES I am a single mother HOWEVER my home was a hell of a lot more broken BEFORE I made the choice to be a single mother. Before a person makes blanket statements regarding a community, whether you live in said community or not, perhaps you should "poll" the people and see how they view themselves. While we may look at another and be mortified or disgusted by how they live, maybe they are happy to live in that manner? Maybe there's a reason why they live in that manner. Until you live behind the doors of each of these people's home one has no right to cast stones.

    July, I agree with Ron, ever since you have posted here you have made one derogatory comment after another regarding the area in which you respond. I can't help but think that if you say these things here, you also say them elsewhere; and quite frankly supporting you wouldn't be high on my list of where to toss my money if I lived in your area either. Try being more positive about the people you serve, you just might see a difference.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  19. #19
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1

    Default

    i think county wide fire departments are the way to resolve the
    vollie problem..............

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Furthermore...there is nothing NOTHING at all wrong with my leadership
    If you THINK you can do any better with a bunch of lame people like whats in the area I serve...
    Oh. OK

  21. #21
    Early Adopter
    cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    There will always be volunteer fire departments. The end.

    There will always be vollie departments because there isn't a demand for a better level of protection in thousands of communities with VFDs. So many FDs out there run a handful of working fires a year. Even more still do not provide first-response medical services.

    If I have a small district where there are only 1-2 fires a year, the people are willing to take the chance of fire to avoid paying for a fire department... That is, until someone dies. However, even then, the outcry eventually dies down and things go back to normal. I've seen this first hand.

  22. #22
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    July36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Ill be fixing the prob alright CHIEFREASON...ill be relocating the entire company to an area that cares and WANTS to help.I am in the process of doing a bit of research on the area right now and do far I have had very good positive results.
    I will not tolerate being in an area that WANTS me...but will not help so it will not be my loss...it will be thiers.
    Another Fire Chief buddy here in AZ has told me that im making the right move.Since this equipment,the trucks AND the building are not the Communities...but are MINE...I have the right to move the company anywhere I see positive results.
    I am sick and tired of pulling money out of my own pocket to fuel these trucks and try to buy newer eqyuipment with no help from the Community.....yea...they TALK...but I never see no action...not even with a fundraiser...always the same reactions.."NO MONEY"

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

  23. #23
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    July36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    245

    Default

    exxxxxxxxactly my point ive been trying to stress COZMOSIS....you said exactly what ive been trying to say in a "nutshell".
    Thats exactly the problem here too...They WANT...but they do not want to help pay.

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Division 24
    Posts
    4,360

    Default Hey "Chief"

    Did you ever think that maybe the residents of YOUR area are sick of listening to YOU talk down to them? We all know its YOUR fire department...And therein lies the problem...

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default Re: Hey "Chief"

    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    Did you ever think that maybe the residents of YOUR area are sick of listening to YOU talk down to them? We all know its YOUR fire department...And therein lies the problem...
    Mikey, when you were about 10 years old, when you didn't get your way, didn't you take your ball and go home?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register