1. #1
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    Exclamation I need help before I go nuts!

    For those of you who do not already know me or my situation from previous postings, hereís a quick background.

    My post does not go on calls. They say this is because of insurance and the department doesnít want to be liable. We are also not allowed to be at the station alone. As an explorer, I realize we are low priority over FF training and can get bumped off trucks. I also know the department has better things to do than run the explorer program. But, there are some things which donít make much sense.

    Here are the problems:

    1. We often get screwed out of our training nights. We only meet 2 times a month, so we usually look forward to it. If the department has training, our advisors are expected to participate, leaving us hanging. During these department trainings, we are not allowed to participate, ask questions or be involved in anyway. Therefore it seems pointless to attend. We have even been told to leave because they couldnít ďbaby-sitĒ us on the night they told us to show up for.

    2. If the training is away from the station, we might be able to ride on a truck. If not, we have to ride in a PV to the site. On several occasions, all the ff ďpulled rank,Ē kicked us from our truck seats, and we all rode in the equipment van. If they are so concerned about getting sued, why are they taking the responsibility for making us ride standing, un-seat belted, or let us drive ourselves?

    3. During a fundraiser, the tones dropped and the advisors took us back to the station so they could go on the call. During this time we were all left without any adult supervision, roaming around the outside, waiting until another ff showed up for the call. He then let us back in. As the flow of responding FF continues, we are asked Ďwhy the hell are you here, donít you know you arenít allowed to be here?Ē This has also happened during training too.

    4. When we are told to meet at the station, we show up but there is no advisor around to let us in and out of the weather. (some of us get dropped off or walk) One day, after waiting, I went back home and then I get reprimanded for not attending.

    There are more, these are just the big ones bugging me now.

    If they are going to host this program, shouldnít they do it right or not at all? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Well I usually try to give some sage advice regarding this issue but here I dont see any hope based on what you said. My post and I are used to getting the "shaft". When I was Chief explorer I constantly butt heads with the department,adviseors and local working for explorers rights and better training and treatment.

    In this case you have three different options.
    Quit,keep going on the SQ or go on strike for better treatment.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by stm4710; 11-07-2003 at 09:52 PM.

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    Im not trying to scare you off from being a explorer. Being a explorer was one of the greatest things I ever did in my life. But you need to be in a enviroment that you can learn and be happy in. I belive departments like yours and mine do a great dis-service to the future of the fire service and there own reputations(more so mine than yours) wether they realize it or not.

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    Post salt river fire dept.

    salt river fire dept. explore post were in the same problem about on mouth ago. what we did was changed your head advisor. what you can do is talk to other advisors and tell them your problem(s). tell them that you would like to see changes with your post. just so you know that the post that you and your fellow explores are in is yours. if you have any ?'s you can e mail me at taitaiwantai_4@yahoo.com

    Explore Capt. R. Lopez Jr.
    Last edited by firelion; 11-10-2003 at 08:12 PM.

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    Oh my god.

    Basicly everything you have described is a complete blatent violation of BSA rules and demonstrate a TOTAL lack of responsibity on the part of your senior firefighters. Something needs to be done and it needs to be done without delay. This is a VERY VERY VERY bad situation and is just asking for catastophe. I am almost afraid to ask this question... how high up in the leadership ranks of the department does this go???
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    There is only one side to the story here...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I think you should give your host department a friendly reminder of where their future fire fighters will come from. My department takes good care of us, for we are there future. =]
    Floral Park Fire Explorers
    Post 129
    Floral Park, New York
    www.explorers129.com

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    Well if its so bad maybe its time to fold up shop and go home.

    I know that at our department we got rid of our explorers due to lack of participation and attitude problems with the explorers.

    You need to look at it from the department stand point...what is more of a priority???? The firefighters and the citizens....or the explorers.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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    you should serouisly think of moving the post to a nehiboring deparment, that would really like to have you guys around. i read your bylaws before they are really strict, alot more than ours. just my opinion beacuse you guys arent learning diddly squat. isn't that what exploring is for?
    IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF THE RULES YOU MISS ALL OF THE FUN.

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    Any Questions Contact Me At Moose20282@yahoo.com

    These Are My Opinions, Not that of My Dept. or Any other Orgnazition I Belong to.

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    Default I think

    I think you should tell someone in BSA who you know will be able to do something about it and when the FF have their next monthly meeting attend it and when the time is appropriate stand up and tell them what you need to say however you need to say it. It is a free country they should not be able to tell you to shutup or sit down. You have to let them know that your tired of being F***ed with. I have had my essentials of Basic Firefighting for 5 months and I still have not rode a truck but another junior who turned in his certificate and was on the truck a WEEK later. I talked to my chief about this and let him know what was up from my point of view and we resolved things peacefully. No way in hell would I or should you put up with all those things you listed! You have my full support. DON'T HESITATE TO BE HEARD. MIKE F.
    Cadet Fire & Rescue Deputy Chief 31
    Monessen Volunteer Fire Department #1
    Westmoreland County Station 81-1

    "Going far beyond the call of duty, doing more than others expect, this is what excellence is all about. And it comes from striving, maintaining the highest standards, looking after the smallest detail, and going the extra mile. Excellence means doing your best every day, in everything."

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    they folded up shop with my towns explorer post because it was just the opposite...All the explorers wanted to be a glory boy thought they all knew everything and ride fire calls all the time but yet when the advisors took time to make meetings or training drills only 1 or 2 that were serious about it showed up. So the dept voted and said thats it the post is done with.
    Andrew
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    New Jersey

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    Well did you do it?
    Cadet Fire & Rescue Deputy Chief 31
    Monessen Volunteer Fire Department #1
    Westmoreland County Station 81-1

    "Going far beyond the call of duty, doing more than others expect, this is what excellence is all about. And it comes from striving, maintaining the highest standards, looking after the smallest detail, and going the extra mile. Excellence means doing your best every day, in everything."

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    Well, Iím currently away on college leave. I havenít been to the station since the last week in August (itís hard to drive 6 hours each way for a meeting). When I left, I said I didnít know if I would remain active. I also checked in my gear but they are keeping me on the roster. My advisors told me I was welcome back anytime and would receive my rank back because they didnít feel comfortable giving it to anyone else.

    Iíll be home over thanksgiving break, so Iíll stop by to visit and see if things have changed. I really want to stay on, but canít deal with ridiculousness of the situation.

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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo
    There is only one side to the story here...
    There is still only one side to the story here. Blah, Blah, Blah...whine, whimper....
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
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    In this case you have three different options.
    Quit,keep going on the SQ or go on strike for better treatment.

    I seriously hope you don't mean the Explorers going on strike. Not only would that make the Explorers look bad, they would probably end up having even less training and time with the department then they do now.

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    They clearly need to do something. That is for sure.
    Cadet Fire & Rescue Deputy Chief 31
    Monessen Volunteer Fire Department #1
    Westmoreland County Station 81-1

    "Going far beyond the call of duty, doing more than others expect, this is what excellence is all about. And it comes from striving, maintaining the highest standards, looking after the smallest detail, and going the extra mile. Excellence means doing your best every day, in everything."

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    Iím not trying to start an argument, but what other side of the story can there be? Iím not giving opinions, these are the facts. Please ask me if somthing is unclear. Like I said before, I understand the department has better things to do, but that in no way should cause us to violate national explorer rules and state laws. Iím sorry if it sounds like whining, but when there is an obvious safety issue, Iím going to bring it up.

    Are you seriously suggesting a Ďstrikeí? What sort of influence do you think explores have? That will only give them a good laugh.

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    No I am not suggesting a strike I am suggesting a stand for what is right. Like I said before go to that next FF meeting whenever it may be, No it doesnt have to be you but it has to be someone who also has the same belief as you in this matter, and let them know when it is appropriate that you demand more respect, better treatment, etc. And if they laugh at you then tell them "Fine then this explorer post is done, you have lost what could have been a great relief program for the FF's of this town. But we have had enough and we are done." Then give them what is theirs and leave.
    Cadet Fire & Rescue Deputy Chief 31
    Monessen Volunteer Fire Department #1
    Westmoreland County Station 81-1

    "Going far beyond the call of duty, doing more than others expect, this is what excellence is all about. And it comes from striving, maintaining the highest standards, looking after the smallest detail, and going the extra mile. Excellence means doing your best every day, in everything."

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    Originally posted by 42VTExplorer

    I seriously hope you don't mean the Explorers going on strike. Not only would that make the Explorers look bad, they would probably end up having even less training and time with the department then they do now.
    Are you seriously suggesting a Ďstrikeí? What sort of influence do you think explores have? That will only give them a good laugh.
    Why not go on strike,you aint doing jack sh** whineing here.

    When Boxford explorers post #911 was jerking my post around with cancelling meetings,sending us to wrong stations and not telling us all the time,we as a post said see ya and went on strike against them and withdrew our $$,support,training,equipment and resources immediatly from there post.

    About 2 days later they got there phone tree "fixed" and we didnt have a problem till very recently cause they knew we were there to learn and train,not sit down jaw jacking and playing there popularity game.

    As far as department/explorer relations went the FOTF Local #3334 and IAFF Local #2038 butted heads all the time over a alot of issues.I dont suggest you run right out strike,just keep it as another tool in the toolbox, but you got to make waves if you want to surf.

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    uh ummm i dunno what to say here other then some how try to fix this messed up post of yours.

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    OK, first of all, in order to go on strike, you need to be a paid union employee among other things. The correct term would be "walk-out" or something along those lines.

    Second of all, if you value your learning experience and participation the fire service, do not do this stike crap. I will tell you right now what it will get you.

    1. Most of the firefighters will laugh at you. Others will look at you like babbies crying over not getting their candy. It is a PRIVLIDGE, not a RIGHT to be doing what your doing, even if it is messed up.

    2. You will probably be told not to come back. Staging a walk-out says "you need us and can't fuction without us" and is supposed to make them think twice because they need you back. Well let me tell you something... that ain't the case. Explorers are really great to have around and most of us enjoy helping teach the future of the fire service something. However, they got by for a long time without you. They still get by without you during school hours and when your not there. They will continue to get by without you there while on your walk-out. All it will do is make you look arogant and whiney. This may or may not be the intention but it is how it will look.

    3. It accomplishes nothing. You need to have a serious, well organized sit-down chat with the powers-that-be. You need to be organized, calm, and to the point. Revolting accomplished none of that.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I completely agree with you, nmfire. Maybe I made it unclear in my last post, but I agree a walkout or a strike is pointless and wonít fix anything.

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    Question Um, I have a question?

    ffexpCP, you said you are away at college? i thought explorers were 14-16 years old. just out of curiosity, if you're old enough to join as a regular/probationary member, y don't you? that would kinda eliminate the training problem, wouldn't it?
    Matt G. Warminster Fire Dept. Station 90
    IAFF Local F-106

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    I donít have any of my certifications yet, so thatís why Iím not on a department. The national office says an explorer can be 14-20 y/o. So until I can get hired, Iíll stay as an explorer while I go through my classes.

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    I can understand about not being allowed to go on calls, But not being allowed toask questions during training night how are you suppose to learn?
    You should have a sit down with your chief and the advisors and share your frustration
    I think explorers should be allowed to participate in training nights
    If not you should see about maybe trying to get some sort of training activite to take place at the meetings
    I know about strikes and it really won't help,

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