1. #1
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    Default Everyone take a step back

    I think its time everyone took a step back and calmed down a bit.

    First I would like to point out, that I only personally know a handfull of volunteers. This is because there just aren't many volunteer depts in my area. The ones I know are great people and quite professional.

    There have been a handfull on these boards that are spouting off at the mouth and acting quite childish, basically taking out their aggression towards the IAFF, but doing it with disorganized thoughts, irrational logic, and immature behavior. There are also those out there bashing their own departments and their own communities, one in particular is the "chief" of said department.

    What a horrible department to work for when your chief is that immature.

    I want those of you who have been spouting and whining and yelling over the past few weeks to realize that YOU ARE representing the volunteer fire service. For those of us who don't personally know many volunteers, YOU ARE leaving a sour taste in our mouths about what you represent.

    I personally roll my eyes and laugh at most of your posts, and I do not talk down on any of my volunteer brothers and sisters. Even though I am career, and yes a member of the IAFF, I believe in the volunteer fire service and its importance to this country. I do not, however, believe in the childish rantings of some, who greatly overshadow the intelligent conversation of the rest.

    Grow up, you want to be treated like professionals, then act like it.

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    ffspo0k

    AHMEN, My brother from the South has hit it on the Head. I couldn't of said it better.

    Thanks Bro.
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    Default Re: Everyone take a step back

    Originally posted by ffspo0k


    First I would like to point out, that I only personally know a handfull of volunteers. This is because there just aren't many volunteer depts in my area. The ones I know are great people and quite professional.


    I would like to point out that I only personlay know a handfull of paid fire fighters. I live in Montana, there are only 6 carreer paid departments in our entire state. The closest one is Billings Montana, 220 miles away.

    The paid guys I know are for the most part professional, but I do have to point out that I have met some very arrogant paid guys from MT. Might have someting to do with the Fire Fighter Combat Challenge...

    There have been a handfull on these boards that are spouting off at the mouth and acting quite childish, basically taking out their aggression towards the IAFF, but doing it with disorganized thoughts, irrational logic, and immature behavior. There are also those out there bashing their own departments and their own communities, one in particular is the "chief" of said department.

    What a horrible department to work for when your chief is that immature.
    I didnt even know what the IAFF was until I started surfing fire on the internet. We have no such thing anywhere near my region.

    Frankly, they have no affect on my life what so ever, I have no opinion on the IAFF.

    I want those of you who have been spouting and whining and yelling over the past few weeks to realize that YOU ARE representing the volunteer fire service. For those of us who don't personally know many volunteers, YOU ARE leaving a sour taste in our mouths about what you represent.
    To be totaly honest with you, much of the bickering here has affected my outlook on paid guys as well. As I said, they do not exist in my region. Most of my impressions of paid guys come from sites like this. Yes, the bad apple paid guys are leaving a sour taste in my mouth as well.

    I personally roll my eyes and laugh at most of your posts, and I do not talk down on any of my volunteer brothers and sisters. Even though I am career, and yes a member of the IAFF, I believe in the volunteer fire service and its importance to this country. I do not, however, believe in the childish rantings of some, who greatly overshadow the intelligent conversation of the rest.

    Grow up, you want to be treated like professionals, then act like it.
    Dont forget its a two way street guys. The BS comeing from both sides gets old.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    I have worked in MOST every type of fire dept there is, from small vol, to a combo, to small paid, to big city. Nothing anyone one on here says will sway my thoughts to any "type" of dept. I take each comment as an individuals comment. There are bad and good apples in all FD's be it vol or paid. I'm certainly not going to obtain a negative outlook towards vol's or whatever simply becuase a vol FF may come on here and say something stupid.. and the same goes for paid FF's.

    I have met pro's from all types of FD's big & small, Vol & paid. I have also met some real dopes on both sides.

    I have met guys that don't know what they are doing in all types of FD's. Equally I have worked with some really knowledgable people. It's always going to be that way... so everyone better just get used to it now.

    We can't judge a whole entity of people (be it paid or Vol's) by the actions or words of a few. That's not justifiable... it's just witch hunting.

    Oh, and before anyone asks, I'm a union member too... that's not my FD patch I use as my avitar, it's my union's logo.
    http://www.sanantoniofire.org

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    Amen to 33motor. Any time you generalize or stereotype a particular group you've taken the easy way out. I'm a volunteer, know many good volunteers, and know some real idiots as well. Same with paid firefighters. The point is that they're all individuals, with their individual opinions. If you stereotype me and paint me with the same brush you paint everyone else, then I have no respect at all for what you think because you've obviously not taken the effort to separate the individual from the group.

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    The volunteer vs. paid argument should be a non-issue. We both have
    our places and MUST work together especially when it comes time for us to bring attention to the needs of our country's fire departments and responders.

    Just a side note: Here in Arkansas, our paid departments (of which there are very few) work very closely with us vollies. We support
    them as much as they do us. This could be a result of the way
    our state fire academy is setup. We all train together regardless of the courses being taught.

    Don't bash me too hard.....

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    Default

    Amen Spook!

    Yellow Fire trucks! :P


    Sorry just had to!!
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Perhaps some of you are misunderstanding me. I am not at all stereotyping all volunteers, or all career guys for that matter. I was simply stating that the bad attitude of some can sometimes overshadow the great attitudes of others. My career department has guys whose poor attitude can make one forget sometimes that the majority here are good guys and love working here.

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    For every idiot on the Paid side of the equation there is one on the Vollie side. We both have our good guys,a nd unfortunately we both have our crosses as well.

    Generalization ans sterotyping is bad no matter how its applied.

    It will be interesting to see how long this thread remains civil.

    Dave

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    Where did this come from??? Why stir the stuff even more?

    If you have an issue with someone, handle it amongst yourselves........ don't bring it up to everyone. If it's a handful of people, why not just PM them or email them?

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    77,

    he'd be sending PM's all week long!

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    For every idiot on the Paid side of the equation there is one on the Vollie side.
    More like two or three; vols outnumber career, right?

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    Well Explained!!!!!

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    Default Re: Everyone take a step back

    Originally posted by ffspo0k

    There have been a handfull on these boards that are spouting off at the mouth and acting quite childish, basically taking out their aggression towards the IAFF, but doing it with disorganized thoughts, irrational logic, and immature behavior. There are also those out there bashing their own departments and their own communities, one in particular is the "chief" of said department.

    What a horrible department to work for when your chief is that immature.
    I have VERY good reasoning for bashing the community I service others have said as well that is in my State.As for me being "immature"...YOU step back and regroup before making those kinds of statements...and you are more than welcome to come to MY dept and see exactly what Im talking about and where Im coming from.Theres nothing at all wrong with my Dept...my problem is I put all this money out to get this going...FOR THEM...and all I get back in return from them is "I dont have any money to support the Company" but yet I can service the area FOR FREE and they can come to my home everytime they need money to pay thier bills.A little something wrong with that picture..wouldnt ya say?...So it is not ME that is immature...it is the Community that just doesnt care.I have been very GOOD to my fire/EMS personnell so I have no problems at all with them.They are there when the time occurs when I need them and they do thier VERY best in helping during the incidents.My problem is with the Community!Maybe if they showed some kind of support...instead of just jerking my chain and TALKING about it...then just maybe Id be supportive of them as well.Theres not been ONE call I have turned down in the Community and I have "been there" at each and every scene...so I feel Ive done MORE than my share to help.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ

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    Thumbs down

    Gee, it must be wonderful having the luxury of choosing who/where you feel like protecting....

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    originally posted by July36
    my problem is I put all this money out to get this going...FOR THEM...and all I get back in return from them is "I dont have any money to support the Company" but yet I can service the area FOR FREE and they can come to my home everytime they need money to pay thier bills.


    Didn't you know BEFORE starting your "company" that your community, in your words, was a "welfare community", obviously incapable of supporting a Fire Department (Company, again your words)And WHY do they come to your house for money, obviously people, who are very much like animals, return to where they once were fed; so if this is the case, wherein exactly does the blame lie???? I also notice that you refer to it as "your company", I don't know any Fire Department that is a "for profit organization" which is what the word company implies.


    I've also noticed that most of your posts regarding your situation down there in Bridge Canyon revolve around I and me. So, again, WHO exactly are you doing this for, cuz it sounds to me like you are doing this for accolades, kudos, hero cookies and having the community in general put you up on a big pedestal. A Fire Department is NOT about any ONE person, remember there is no "I" in Team

    Just to clarify the point I'm trying to make I've taken the liberty of "highlighting" the number of times you used "I","me","my" or "mine" statements, might help in understanding where my point is coming from.

    Perhaps instead of judging your community at large, re-evaluate where your reasons and motives behind FUNDING your department to begin with came from. If it truly was from the kindness of your heart then all the power to you, however your posts do not come across as such; most people doing something from the kindness of their heart go into said situations with eyes wide open and with no expectations of a return.

    originally posted by July36
    I have VERY good reasoning for bashing the community I service others have said as well that is in my State.As for me being "immature"...YOU step back and regroup before making those kinds of statements...and you are more than welcome to come to MY dept and see exactly what Im talking about and where Im coming from.Theres nothing at all wrong with my Dept...my problem is I put all this money out to get this going...FOR THEM...and all I get back in return from them is "I dont have any money to support the Company" but yet I can service the area FOR FREE and they can come to my home everytime they need money to pay thier bills.A little something wrong with that picture..wouldnt ya say?...So it is not ME that is immature...it is the Community that just doesnt care.I have been very GOOD to my fire/EMS personnell so I have no problems at all with them.They are there when the time occurs when I need them and they do thier VERY best in helping during the incidents.My problem is with the Community!Maybe if they showed some kind of support...instead of just jerking my chain and TALKING about it...then just maybe Id be supportive of them as well.Theres not been ONE call I have turned down in the Community and I have "been there" at each and every scene...so I feel Ive done MORE than my share to help.

    Donna C
    Fire Chief
    Bridge Canyon VFD
    http://cms.firehouse.com/dept/SeligmanAZ



    I have VERY good reasoning for bashing the community I service


    You service???? Don't you mean that your FIRE DEPARTMENT services??



    I'm very sorry, but I really think you are having a bad attitude toward a community when you obviously acted upon free will to start YOUR company (Fire Department)
    Last edited by PFire23; 11-11-2003 at 12:21 AM.
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    teetering on a FINE line .............UGH ......this NW Ohio FF shares the same Spook !
    Last edited by Weruj1; 11-11-2003 at 12:08 AM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
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  18. #18
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    Angry Well.............

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    Originally posted by loweje
    Here in Arkansas, our paid departments (of which there are very few) work very closely with us vollies. We support them as much as they do us. This could be a result of the way our state fire academy is setup. We all train together regardless of the courses being taught.
    I'm not sure where you are located in the state, loweje... I do agree that there is a strong level of cooperation in many areas of the state.

    However, I'd say that there was more than just a few paid (and combination) departments in Arkansas. I'm willing to say that many (if not most) incorporated towns of 10,000 or more have paid or part-paid departments.

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    Default Re: Re: Everyone take a step back

    Originally posted by July36
    My problem is with the Community! Maybe if they showed some kind of support...instead of just jerking my chain and TALKING about it...then just maybe Id be supportive of them as well.
    I remember a tour I gave not too long ago. They'd come by the station while we were out on a call for an infant choking. When they asked where we'd been, I told them and mentioned that we'd had a successful save. The group clapped. I got goose bumps. Even though I didn't do anything to save the infant, the fact that people were giving my team a positive response was great.

    I tell that story to say this... If you're a part of the fire service for recognition or support, you're probably in the wrong place. That little scene in the engine bay isn't an every day occurance. Even though my community is supportive of us... We often times have to do a whole lot with very little for people who didn't know we existed before we came and don't care about us after we leave. It's important that you know that.

    The work you do in the fire service isn't about you.

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    PFire23

    de·part·ment ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-pärtmnt)
    n.

    1. A distinct, usually specialized division of a large organization, especially:
    a. A principal administrative division of a government: the department of public works.
    b. A division of a business specializing in a particular product or service: the personnel department.
    c. A division of a school or college dealing with a particular field of knowledge: the physics department.
    2. Department One of the principal executive divisions of the federal government of the United States, headed by a cabinet officer.
    3. A section of a department store selling a particular line of merchandise: the home furnishings department.
    4. An administrative district in France.
    5. A unit of a warship's crew, organized by function, such as gunnery or engineering.
    6. An area of particular knowledge or responsibility; a specialty: Getting the kids to bed is my department.


    com·pa·ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmp-n)
    n. pl. com·pa·nies

    1. A group of persons. See Synonyms at band2.
    2.
    a. One's companions or associates: moved in fast company; is known by the company she keeps.
    b. guest or guests: had company for the weekend.
    c. The state of friendly companionship; fellowship: was grateful for her company; friends who finally parted company.
    3.
    a. A business enterprise; a firm.
    b. A partner or partners not specifically named in a firm's title: Lee Rogers and Company.
    4. A troupe of dramatic or musical performers: a repertory company.
    5.
    a. A subdivision of a military regiment or battalion that constitutes the lowest administrative unit. It is usually under the command of a captain and is made up of at least two platoons.
    b. A unit of firefighters.
    6. A ship's crew and officers. See Usage Note at collective noun.


    There are a LOT of fire companies in my local area and only a few fire departments. As stated above the departments are a division of the town government (such as the water department, public works department, roads department, etc.). Fire companies are NOT for profit but are not an extension of the local government. Since many fire companies are independent agencies they are classified as companies, not departments.

    Feel smarter now?

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    Geeeeeeeee I don't know LtTurk, the question I'd have to ask is DO YOU???? After all you ARE the one who went to the trouble to type out TWO dictionary definitions.

    For your effort, I will admit (cuz I'm a big enough person to do this) that I was mistaken in my misreading of the word COMPANY in July's post. But hey, thanks for taking the time to point out the error of my ways, it's good to learn something new each day.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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    Yes, I am the one who took the time to cut and paste two definitions. I'd bet it took less time than it took you to think up your reply.

    A simple thank you would have been nicer....and your welcome.
    Have a nice day

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    I for one like red fire trucks, leather helmets and ......OH! We've covered this ground before!!

    As for the Chief in question, methinks someone has thin skin. Chief, find ways to get the community involved and you will be surprised at how the level of support will increase.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    This whole July36 thing has inspired me....

    I fell like...


    like...

    singin'......

    Let me tell ya a story about a man named Jed, kept his house on wheels
    just to keep
    the family fed... then one day he was a burnin' up some trash..
    Next thing ya know it had spread to the grass... fire that is...
    luminous columns of heat and light...

    Well next thing ya know ol JUly36 is there, she's mighty brave but the boys
    are kind of scared... they said "Chief, californy the place we
    ought to be" so they loaded up the single axle tanker and moved to
    beverley... hills that is..

    swimmin' pools... movie stars... plenty of paying customers...


    Hey, July36, no harm intended, just having some fun.. I just could not resist it... it just came to me, I didn't go looking fer it! LOL
    http://www.sanantoniofire.org

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