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  1. #1
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    Default When will it end?

    So we have spent the better part of the last two weeks bashing each other on these forums becuase of what some outdoorsman wrote, or because we are career, or beacuse we are vollie, or becuase we do both.

    All this hot air we expended that probably didn't change anyones mind about anything. All the anger and BS....for what?

    Saturday an 18 year old Volunteer Firefighter made the ultimate sacrifice. He wasn't trapped in a burning structure, or hit by a car at an MVA, he crashed his sister's car while responding to a structure fire.

    When are we going to stop killing ourselves? When are we going stop dying before we ever get to the scene?

    Acording to the article, Crash In POV Claims Alabama Firefighter Rushing To Call, Matthew Karl Brimer had completed all but 5 hours of his driver training. So what went wrong? I do not want this to turn into a bash thread, but seriously folks, when are we going to change this? No LODD should ever be in vain. Learn something. Take this opportunity and learn from whatever happened to Matthew Brimer.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to the Brimer Family and the members of the Weaver Fire Department....

    LETS NOT LET THIS HAPPEN AGAIN
    Last edited by hfd66truck; 11-10-2003 at 11:50 PM.


  2. #2
    Forum Member VolFFJohn's Avatar
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    Angry come on folks

    I couldn't agree more. We need to be more carefull.
    Firefighter/ EMT-Basic
    Proud Soldier in the Iowa Army National Guard
    GLT 11/25/2005

    All Gave Some
    Some Gave All
    Never Forget the Sacrifices Made

    These are my opinions and not those of my dept.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default

    10-4 Dave !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  4. #4
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    Default When will it end?

    I couldn't have said it better. My prayers go out to the family and friends.

  5. #5
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Unhappy One More.......

    Ya know something, Dave's right. If only we could take all time that we spend throwing rocks at each other, divert it to TEACHING people how do this job safer, we just might save a life. As always, my thoughts and prayers are with Matt's Family and Department. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  6. #6
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
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    Default

    You know, the problem the general public has with fire safety is the same problem the fire service has. Members of the public don't take fire safety seriously because they think it won't happen to them. They think they're smarter than the people who have fires. Many fire departments don't think things like LODDs can happen to them. They think they're smarter, stronger, better trained or simply "not like" the departments that have them.

    We'll stop killing ourselves when we realize that we're not immune.

  7. #7
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Why?

    I think we has a whole do it to ourselves. The fire service
    does not like change and I offen hear- "But I/we have always
    done it like this..." or "125 years of tradition, unimpeeded
    by progress" and "Old Skool" etc...

    The fire service just needs to move forward as possible
    and maybe accept change. Ofcourse not eveything can
    happen at once or be up to the latest techno. idea.

    So new thinking and technology might help. I remember
    reading "Safety is an attitude, not just an idea..."

  8. #8
    Senior Member FFMcDonald's Avatar
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    Default

    The mentality of the fire service needs to change. Plain and simple.
    Ya know something, Dave's right. If only we could take all time that we spend throwing rocks at each other, divert it to TEACHING people how do this job safer, we just might save a life. As always, my thoughts and prayers are with Matt's Family and Department. Stay Safe....
    I hope that I am not taking what was said the wrong way. I understand TEACHING to mean training?

    There is no substitute for good, quality training. As well as an education.

    I think that fire departments need to develop a mentoring program. Older firefighter need/should be paired with younger firefighters in order to impart their knowledge- and also to tone down 'youthful bravado'.

    But even as I say this - that we need good quality training- and that we need to drill these things into our heads until they are second nature-- reaction; there will be someone who throws out the 'ole' -- "A book never put out a fire..."

    No- knowledge alone won't put out a fire- but it is required. You need to know what to do, and why you do it, -- the right way vs. the wrong way. The safe way vs. the unsafe way.

    "125 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress" is a funny, humurous saying - but we need to break that 'mentality' in the fire service. Proper education - and training is key. Realistic, SAFE, training is key. There is no reason that a fatality should ever occur in training.
    Marc

    "In Omnia Paratus"

    Member - IACOJ
    "Got Crust?"

    -- The opinions presented here are my own; and are not those of any organization that I belong to, or work for.

  9. #9
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    Default

    The mentality of the fire service needs to change. Plain and simple.
    Truer words were never spoken. How many times have we seen the attitude that needs to be changed? Here goes a partial list.

    1. "Yeah, he set some fires. But he is very active and I think he should be given a second chance."
    2. The support for the Lairdsville morons who murdered Brad Golden.
    3. The refusal of many FD's to adapt a zero tolerance policy towards alcohol use and fire fighting.
    4. "Screw everybody else! We're fire fighters"!"
    5. (I had one kid tell me this in an interview after a serious LODD incident) "Fire is a living breathing monster. Some days you get it and some days it gets you. There's nothing you can do about it".
    6. "He is a hero" (after he drove 60 MPH and creamed a pole enroute to a fire in a tree).

    Where should we start?

  10. #10
    Senior Member FFMcDonald's Avatar
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    Default

    Well - anyone that knows George (from the Forums - Never met him personnally; 'How ya doin George?') - knows what his pet peeves are- as he has listed a few.

    I guess I'll sum up a few that I think should take priority.

    1. Firefighter health - we are losing the bulk of out firefighters to cardiac problems. And do every year.

    2. Endless bickering - the fire service paid or volunteer is political. The fire service as a "whole" needs to find/choose its priorities - and go after them.

    I think that IAFC should be a leader in this arena - as far as being able to identify areas that need improvement, and being able to garner grass roots support throughout the fire service.

    3. I agree with George - alcohol has NO place in the fire house. None.

    These are my top three - I'll post more as they rebound back to the front of my brain.
    Marc

    "In Omnia Paratus"

    Member - IACOJ
    "Got Crust?"

    -- The opinions presented here are my own; and are not those of any organization that I belong to, or work for.

  11. #11
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Outstanding Post Dave....Well done!!!!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default

    My thoughts and prayers to Matthew Brimer's family and friends. It is truly sad that we can't guarantee the safety of each and every firefighter; be it on the way, while at the scene or when returning home. Unfortunately, it takes a great teacher to prepare us, a caring God to watch over us and a little kiss from Lady Luck as we go out the door to stack the odds in our favor.
    It really hurts when a young person dies before we have the opportunity to see their contributions to our craft.
    Dave; I don't know if it's possible for these forum participants to ever agree on the "whys" of any situation or solution. Sometimes, it only takes the "tone" of a post to get things going. Healthy discussion and even disagreement is good some of the time. It's the "personal skinnings" that is so absurd for a group that refers to each other as "brother" and "sister"; or "brotherhood" and "sisterhood"; or the "nobody understands us, but us" crowd. We are willing to test the strength of our "group" every time someone says something or "says it the wrong way". From the first "I thought you were talking about me"; hold on to your seat!
    But one thing we will all agree on is that this was a tragic incident.
    We just need to find more to agree on.
    God bless Matthew Brimer and his family.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  13. #13
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up What he said..........

    Originally posted by FFMcDonald
    The mentality of the fire service needs to change. Plain and simple.


    I hope that I am not taking what was said the wrong way. I understand TEACHING to mean training?

    There is no substitute for good, quality training. As well as an education.



    "125 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress" is a funny, humurous saying - but we need to break that 'mentality' in the fire service. Proper education - and training is key. Realistic, SAFE, training is key.

    Exactly. In retrospect, I should have used the word "Training" as that is what I meant. Thanks Marc, Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

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