1. #1
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Angry Child chained to bed dies in fire.

    From the Firehouse Homepage:
    Arkansas child chained to bed dies in fire. Linked below:
    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=21742


    Anyone else think the death penalty may be to easy?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    PFire23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    On a rock, surrounded by water
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    Ya know, THERE are words for people like that, and sick twisted bastards really isn't it, but it is what is least likely to get me banned. YES the death penalty is too easy on them. As a matter of fact, I think if you can kill someone, or put them in a position such as this child was placed, then you can damn well be put to death in the same damn manner in which your victim died. THAT is justice.


    Rest in Peace Molly Holt. Please know that not all Mommy's and Daddy's are vicious, cruel and uncaring.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    736

    Default

    sickening how stupid and cruel people are!!!

  4. #4
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Third rock from the sun
    Posts
    3

    Default

    That story is just a glimpse of how sick and sad this world really is.
    "when in doubt, cut 'em out"

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Denton Co. Tx
    Posts
    86

    Default

    BASTARDS
    Proud member of the IACOJ
    ftm-ptb-egh
    *** These are my opinions, they do not in any way reflect those of my department.***

  6. #6
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Post Updated information

    CLARKSVILLE, Ark. (AP) - A 10-year-old girl chained to a bed by
    her ankles died in a house fire and the child's parents face
    manslaughter charges.
    Sheriff Wesley Kendrick said investigators believe the fire was
    accidental. Four people made it out of the home - the parents and
    their two other children.
    The body of Molly Holt was found by firefighters in her bedroom
    under debris where the roof had collapsed, said Chief Deputy Jerry
    Dorney. Investigators also found a chain and padlock that they
    determined had secured the girl to her bed, Dorney said.
    "The reason that the child was chained to the bed is unknown at
    this time," Prosecutor David Gibbons said Wednesday. "I do know
    that there is no justifiable reason to chain the 10-year-old child
    to their bed."
    Molly's parents, Lloyd Holt, 32, and Teresa Dick, 31, were
    arrested on a felony manslaughter charge. At a hearing Wednesday, a
    judge appointed a public defender to the case and set bond at
    $100,000 for each of the parents, said Deputy Prosecutor Bruce
    Wilson. The couple were jailed at Clarksville.
    Investigators believe the fire started in the front of the
    house, where the girl's bedroom was located, but they hadn't
    determined by Wednesday what caused the fire.
    "The entire house was completely destroyed and on the ground,"
    Dorney said. "The only thing standing was a brick chimney. At this
    point, we believe the fire was accidental."
    The chief deputy would not disclose what the parents told
    investigators when asked why their daughter was chained to the bed.
    He said when deputies arrived at the scene, the father said he
    wasn't able to get Molly out of the house.
    The body was sent to the state Crime Laboratory in Little Rock
    for an autopsy.
    Dorney said deputies received a call at 12:45 a.m. Monday of the
    fire about 13 miles north of Clarksville. The nearest residence to
    the two bedroom, wood-frame rent house was about a quarter-mile
    away.
    When deputies arrived, the front of the house was engulfed in
    flames, and Lloyd Holt told them he believed Molly was still
    inside.
    Both parents are employed, although Dorney said he didn't know
    exactly where. "We've not had any problems with them that I can
    remember off the top of my head," he said.
    The couple's other children - a girl about 5 and a boy about 3 -
    were placed with relatives, Dorney said.

    (Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LAFireParamedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles California
    Posts
    26

    Default *Shakes Head*

    This is just beyond words , I cant really understand how a parent can do this to there child. I hope both of them get put away for a long time. This sounds more like muder than manslaughter.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Plymouth Meeting, PA
    Posts
    298

    Default

    This is one of the most disturbing things that I have ever read. For "parents" (in this case, I used that term very loosely) to do this to any of their child is unspeakable. They are several cases of child abuse in and around philadelphia that I just cannot believe would actually take plce. This one tops them by a long shot.

    And for the "experts" not to understand what is wrong and do not have an idea why some children behave the way they do these days, wake up. It is situations like this that should open their eyes and do something for the good of everyone. Maybe there would be less violence and drug abuse amongst kids and teenagers. Are we going to prevent everything, No, but someone has to start somewhere.

    I wholeheartly agree with Pfire23, put the parents in the same situation. Anything else would not be justice. Hopefully, we will never have to read anything else like this.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    What the hell were they thinking???
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    firemangeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    266

    Default

    I suggest that you all wait until we find out why the parents had chained the girl to her bed. We don't what the history is with this child. As the parent of a ten year old, I can tell you that a child of this age is able to operate any lock that an adult can, which means that child can get up and leave any time they please. As a firefighter in a large city, I have had to respond to children of this age and younger wandering around the streets in the wee hours. Everyone is shocked that a parent would let their child wander out of the house. The truth is that the parent could not prevent the child from leaving, especially when the parents are asleep. No parents can possibly maintain a 24 hours watch of their children, and proper parenting will allow a parent to keep most children in bed. However, there are always exceptions to this, and children with severe behavioral problems cannot be controlled through normal means. Consider that this may be a case of a parent who has reached their wits end with the child, and chaining them to their bed to keep them safe at home seemed the only solution. I am not saying that this is what happened, but before we start all of this "I can't believe they could do this to their child" talk, I suggest we get all of the facts.
    I felt I must point this out because of a fire that occurred in my city some years ago. A single father who worked nights locked his children in their rooms so that he could get some sleep, so he could keep his job, so he could feed his children. The general public was of course shocked that he locked them in their rooms, "How Awful!", "Sick Bastard", "Child Abuser". If you had seen his face when the bodies were brought out, you would have known why he did it. He loved his children and was trying to protect them. As we all know, most people believe that a fire is the last thing that will happen to them. The dangers they perceive for their children don't normally include losing them to fire. It really doesn't happen that often, and gets far less publicity than abduction, molestation, etc. We may not always make the best decisions when it comes to protecting our children, but perhaps it seemed like the best answer at the time.

    May you rest in peace Molly Holt and all children who are victims of fire.

    FG
    See You At The Big One

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    PFire23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    On a rock, surrounded by water
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    firemangeorge, I'm sorry, but I beg to differ with you on your view here. As a parent of a child who had some pretty major behavioral issues and who would run away from home on a regular basis, not once did I ever lock him up or chain him up. I attended many different parenting classes (all offered free of charge), and NOT one of those classes EVER, EVER promoted any of the actions outlined in your post. As for the father who "locked his children in their rooms so that he could get some sleep, so he could keep his job, so he could feed his children", save that argument for someone who's buyin'. I work many nights, I also have 3 children and guess what, ALL of my kids will be courteous enough to understand that I have to sleep if I've worked an all nighter, of course this is if they aren't in school; and even when they were smaller I "cat napped" on the couch with one eye open to keep an eye on them. There is NEVER any excuse for LOCKING, CHAINING OR PENNING up a child, I don't give a crap who you are or what excuse you are using. They are NOT animals and do not deserve to be treated as such. And I WILL argue this point until I'm blue in the face, this is stupidity and cruelty that is unmatched.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    I agree with Pfire on this. When a sherrif decides to bring back the "chain gang" concept as a mean of incarceration, people scream holy hell that is is demeaning, dehumanizing and cruel and unusual punishment.

    Locking a child in a room is wrong...chaining a child to a bed is abuse pure and simple. It is a human rights vilation.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    firemangeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    266

    Default

    Pfire,

    I will ask you this:

    Did the sides of your childs baby bed have rails that looked like a pen? Did you ever use a gate at the top of a flight of stairs? Do you buckle your children into their seats when they are in the car? Did you ever use a child safety seat?

    "There is NEVER any excuse for LOCKING, CHAINING OR PENNING up a child, I don't give a crap who you are or what excuse you are using."
    See You At The Big One

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,686

    Default

    You can't really be trying to compare a gate at the top of a stairway to a chain and padlock attached to a bed are you? A car seat to locking them in a room?

    Could not that single father have simply put a lock on the top of the doors to the house exits as opposed to locking them in their rooms? God forbid they have to wake up and use the bathroom at night...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    PFire23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    On a rock, surrounded by water
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    Originally posted by firemangeorge
    Pfire,

    I will ask you this:

    Did the sides of your childs baby bed have rails that looked like a pen? Did you ever use a gate at the top of a flight of stairs? Do you buckle your children into their seats when they are in the car? Did you ever use a child safety seat?

    "There is NEVER any excuse for LOCKING, CHAINING OR PENNING up a child, I don't give a crap who you are or what excuse you are using."


    OHHHH GEEEZUS here we go with the misguided logic again. George, yes I used a crib and yes I used a gate at the top of stairs and ohhhhh bad bad mommy me yep I used a play pen occasionally too, yep on car seats, booster seats and seat belts. BUT, those are LEGALLY accepted SAFETY measures for infants, small children and the seat belt is an accepted safety feature for all humans. I do NOT agree with PADLOCKING, OR CHAINING a child to a bed, or anything else. Good God Man, you actually find this acceptable. This argument that you have just used doesn't hold water, c'mon.


    Thank you and please come again when you are better armed and have a better sense of logic
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Originally posted by firemangeorge
    Pfire,

    I will ask you this:

    Did the sides of your childs baby bed have rails that looked like a pen? Did you ever use a gate at the top of a flight of stairs? Do you buckle your children into their seats when they are in the car? Did you ever use a child safety seat?

    "There is NEVER any excuse for LOCKING, CHAINING OR PENNING up a child, I don't give a crap who you are or what excuse you are using."
    Firemangeorge...

    There is a HUGE difference between infants and toddlers and the methods of protecting them from harm. Failure to protect them from harm is child abuse.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    I close the bedroom door on my 1.5yr old so he doesn't get up in the middle of the night and wander off( I have a little thing over the handle yuou have to sqeeze to turn the knob.)

    Now I feel like crap everytime I put him to bed, but that is better than him waking up in the middle of the night(which he does all the time) and getting into something or out of the house. But I would never in a million years chain my son to his bed. That is crazy!! and that is nothing like having him in a crib.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    PFire23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    On a rock, surrounded by water
    Posts
    1,845

    Default

    Jeff, that is a legally, approved and socially acceptable sold in most stores, safety item. I myself used those door knob covers as a safety precaution when my kids were younger.


    But...... ya know, I just can't remember the last time I was in WalMart and they had a display of leg irons complete w/padlock

    That one safety measure musta just slipped right past me.
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  19. #19
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    firemangeorge quoted:
    Consider that this may be a case of a parent who has reached their wits end with the child, and chaining them to their bed to keep them safe at home seemed the only solution.
    Well george, I hate to say, being a parent isn't easy, but chaining your kids to a bed has NO excuses.
    I too work in a big city with a service that also provides ALS coverage, and have yet to see this behavior justified.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    Thanks,

    Kid thinks he is Houdni (sp) And Evil Kinevil....but that is paybacks for all the stuff I did as a kid . Got to do somethin' to protect our 4th Generation Firefighter.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  21. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber
    MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    First of all, there is/was/could not be any JUSTIFICATION for chaining/restraining a child or even an adult to any structure for any reason. None at all.

    Second, capital punishment, death sentences....hhhhhmmmmmm nope not good enough. I have some very long and detailed "punishments" in my mind for persons who engage in that sort of activity. Only one of them included prisons (general population). The rest of it is not suitable for this or pretty much any other forum, suffice to say it would be very long and extremely painful to the recipient. Pfire knows where my thoughts are on such things. She has heard me on similar occasions.

    Firemangeorge, Buddy I am sorry that you feel as you do. I will not argue against you for having an opinion, but in this case I think it is more than just a little bit mis-guided.

    Molly I hope that you are in a better place, and may you rest a peace.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber
    PFD109NFD107's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Northwood, Ohio, 43619
    Posts
    356

    Default

    Can we bring back public stoning???

  23. #23
    Early Adopter
    cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    From Friday's Arkansas Democrat-Gazette:

    Shackled to her bed, 10-year-old dies in fire
    2 other kids escape; parents are arrested
    BY ERIC HAND, ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

    Nothing was left in Molly Holtís bedroom except an electric heater, a bed frame, a chain and the two padlocks that kept her from escaping the fire that killed her early Monday morning, Johnson County sheriffís deputies said.

    The fire destroyed her familyís wooden, two-bedroom home on County Road 4430 about eight miles north of Clarksville. Deputies arrested her parents after discovering the 10-year-old girl was chained at her ankle and padlocked to the bed frame.

    On Wednesday, Circuit Judge Dennis Sutterfield set a cash bond of $100,000 each for Lloyd Lee Holt, 32, and Teresa Dick, 31, who escaped the fire with their two other children, Johnson County Chief Deputy Jerry Dorney said. He believed the other children were about 3 and 5.

    The fire began about 11 p.m. Sunday in the front of the house near Mollyís bedroom, Dorney said. Investigators believe the fire was electrical, and arson wasnít suspected, he said.

    Holt, Dick and the two younger children escaped through a window in the back bedroom where they were sleeping, Dorney said.

    Nearly two hours later, when firefighters and deputies arrived, the house was gone, except for its tin roof and brick chimney, he said.

    In the two hours after the start of the fire, the family apparently tried to make a 911 call.

    Their phone was burned. The keys to their car and pickup lay somewhere in the fire.

    The nearest neighbor lived more than a halfmile away, Dorney said.

    They set off on foot ó Holt in coveralls, Dick in a raincoat, and the two surviving children in their underwear, Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons said. A passing couple picked the family up and took them to Holtís brotherís residence, Dorney said. There they finally made a 911 call at 12:45 a.m.

    Holt and his brother, Henry Holt Jr., returned to the rubble and met deputies as they arrived. Lloyd Holt told them his daughter was inside and he was not able to get her out, Dorney said.

    Deputies found Mollyís skeletal remains under the bed frame. A metal link chain was looped around the frame and twice around her left ankle, where two padlocks secured her, Deputy Coroner Ashley Davis said.

    Davis pronounced Molly dead at 2:39 a.m. He said she probably woke up and tried to crawl to the door but died of smoke inhalation. Very little of her body remained by the time he arrived, he said.

    "Every time I think Iíve seen everything, you see something new. It just blows your mind," Davis said. "You canít even imagine it."

    Gibbons said he would likely charge the couple with manslaughter. He said it was no justification, but the girl "may have been mentally challenged to some degree and may have had some behavioral problems."

    He didnít think the chaining was a recent development.

    The girl may have received special schooling in Clarksville, Gibbons said. Joy Wilson, director of Forrester-Davis Center for the Developmentally Disabled in Clarksville, could not be reached for comment.

    Julie Munsell, spokesman for Department of Human Services, cited federal privacy laws when declining to reveal any healthrelated services Molly received. But she said the department had assigned investigators to ensure the welfare of the surviving children.

    Molly hadnít attended school for three years, according to Clarksville Superintendent Don Johnston. Johnston said Molly transferred to the district in 1999 and completed first grade in 2000. In August 2000, Dick filed paperwork allowing home schooling for her daughter, Johnston said.

    Holt and Dick were being held Wednesday in the Johnson County jail in lieu of bond. The surviving children are with Holtís brother, Dorney said. Holt and Dick are scheduled for arraignment in Circuit Court on Jan. 15.

  24. #24
    Early Adopter
    cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    NO EXCUSE:
    Gibbons said he would likely charge the couple with manslaughter. He said it was no justification, but the girl "may have been mentally challenged to some degree and may have had some behavioral problems."
    The issue here is two-fold. Not only did they they chain their daughter to her friggin' bed... but both parents escaped out of the window.

    How many parents on these boards would be willing to die trying to save their kids from a fire? Many of us have probably been to fires were people tried to return to the house without even knowing if someone was still inside. The mere possibility of someone being inside was enough to make them enter a burning home. Yet, these nut jobs in my home state here bailed out a back window *KNOWING* that there was no way their daughter was going to get out.

    That's sick and wrong on a level I have never previously heard of.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LAFireParamedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles California
    Posts
    26

    Default

    How many parents on these boards would be willing to die trying to save their kids from a fire


    I would rather die trying to save my child's life than live the rest of my life knowing i just let them die alone

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register