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    Default fabricating adjustable stabilizers for extrication

    Our department defined a desire/need for stabilizers for vehicle extrication(s). As many othe rdepartment know they are expensive. We found a plan for them in a trade magazine with spec,dimentions ect... Our City attorney advised us not to build them because of product liability. help... is ther ea way that this can be done?

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    So, you have been notified by the attorney, that would have to defend you, that it is not adviseable to build your own...and you still want to?

    Take a look at ZMag pads, they are very inexpensive and very flexible.

    www.zmagrescue.com

    Holmatro also sells a set of 2 struts for about $900. They have a 4 strut set that is around $1700. Look for information on Junk Yard Dog struts.


    No, I'm not a vendor and have no relationship with either. I found them when doing some similar research and found them to be most inexpensive.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Take a look at ZMag pads, they are very inexpensive and very flexible.

    No, I'm not a vendor and have no relationship with either. I found them when doing some similar research and found them to be most inexpensive.
    Ditto to both.

    We use the Zmag pads and the couplers. Carry 4 3' 4X4's and 4 5' 4X4's - haven't used them on a real call (yet), but we've managed to put them in some pretty interesting positions on the training ground.

    My favorite thus far was the stabilization & lifting of an overturned hatch back. we then went on to do a total roof removal, then lowered the now roofless car back down.


    Storage space for the 4X4's wasn't an issue - cost was.

    All things considered - we're happy with the investment.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    Our City attorney advised us not to build them because of product liability.

    City attornies, as a rule, would advise a city not to offer fire protection since it would increase their liability. For that matter, just hand in our city charter and we really wouldn't have to worry about lawsuits. It's part of their job -- recommend against anything that could potentially increase liability, no matter how small the probability is.

    That's not to say just go ahead and ignore them.

    There are times the Attornies are speaking to matters of law -- State Statutes, regulations, etc and you can't decide not to follow the law.

    Liability isn't as clear cut. If he's citing case law of homemade units like yours failing that resulted in liability, that's tough to argue against. If he's simply saying, in general, there is liability in trying to do anything yourself he's correct. But it doesn't mean his word is final -- nothing says the Fire Chief and Mayor can't acknowledge his advice but decide that the benefit in cost saving and/or having something vs. not affording anything outweigh liability concerns.

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    I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to anything that is "home made" and hasn't been rated when used for any type of lifting or support of any weight....
    Luke

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    My career dept took the zmag base plates and crowns but instead of using 4x4s we got some 4x4 tubular steel that we use. Its a little heavy but I like the extra secure feeling of steel.
    After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one

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    Default Home made struts

    I've responded to this in a previous posting, here goes again. I've built a pair of struts for $150.00. They work well and people know going in that they are not tested, engineered or certified. They do realize that they do work. As before, I ask, who engineered, certified or tested those step chocks many people build? Who certified the cribbing stack that you build for stabilization? It is sad, in this day of litigation, that many are afraid to function or act and do the right thing, as far as our fellow man is concerned. Bill Luebberman

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    RESQYODA

    Where did you find the plans for your struts?

    Liability, extrication fails becuse you dont have the tools you need, there's a liability.

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    Default Re: Home made struts

    Originally posted by RESQYODA
    I've responded to this in a previous posting, here goes again. I've built a pair of struts for $150.00. They work well and people know going in that they are not tested, engineered or certified.
    ...everybody except the patients, anyway....
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by RESQYODA
    I've responded to this in a previous posting, here goes again. I've built a pair of struts for $150.00. They work well and people know going in that they are not tested, engineered or certified.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    ...everybody except the patients, anyway....
    That's a good point.

    Can anyone spell L-A-W-S-U-I-T? Thats what you'll face if the patient decides to take legal action in the event of one of these home made things failing...

    It is sad, in this day of litigation, that many are afraid to function or act and do the right thing, as far as our fellow man is concerned.
    There's a contradiction when we talk about doing the right thing for our fellow man and we decide to use untested, uncertified equipment to help them
    Luke

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    Default fabricated -vs- bought

    I understand the L-A-W-S-U-I-T, although you can only do what your budget allows. I would love to have everything fancy.....but my budget does not allow. I guess its a gamble we take. We have alot of homemade stuff on our squad and it all works perfectly fine!

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    If all you have is time to worry about litigation,better leave the equipment in the station.Do we need to be cognizant of the possibilities and be prepared? Of course.Can we let lawsuits be the sole guiding factor in our operations? Not and be effective.Many states are now considering/or have in place laws to protect/limit claims to responders.What is a strut? What does it do?Does it NEED to be third party tested to be effective? The short answer is NO,although it is NICE to have someone elses "paper"on it.Most struts use a "thin"sidewall(Z's excepted).My "homemade" version is 1/4 and 3/16's wall.Since they are tubular the loading SHOULD be in a straight line.Use rated pins and I don't believe you'll find much deflection.Nor do I have any problem working under them. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 07-06-2005 at 01:26 PM.

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    It is very easy for members of depts with 6+ figure budgets to sit here and say that you should not make your own equipment. However, if you come from a dept with a $20000 budget, you probably have a much different viewpoint. Drop that budget to $5000...well, you get the picture.

    Heck, my dept has a strong 6 figure budget, and we still fabricate equipment!

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    It certainly raises some important issues. I know I work on an industrial department where money is no object. We want it? We got it. I also work part time for a department back home where money IS an issue, and we do use some home made tools where purpose built and certified aids are simply too pricey to purchase. I don't like it- but that's what we've got and that's what we deal with. The money for the lawsuits isn't coming out of my pocket- so provided I understand the limitations of the equipment we use, and train with standards in its use- and have it documented that we have protocols for its use in place- then that is indeed showing due diligence and those are the key words in court.
    Ian "Eno" McLeod

    Train Hard, Fight Easy

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