1. #1
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    Default Help- Working with "Generation Y"

    Help- I work part-time supervising young Intern
    Firefighters. (in their early 20s) The problem
    is that they do not seem to care about working
    hard to make something of themselves or career.
    THEY FEEL A JOB/CAREER IS OWED TO THEM.

    Why? All of us older generations had to work
    hard to get somewhere.

    Is it because they were spoiled growing up and their
    parents gave them everything?

    Please let me know what you think.

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    CALFFBOU

    As a 26 y/o FF I can't tell you the solution for your problem. But you hit it on the head they do believe that it is owed to them and that mommy and daddy did everything for them. If you didn't notice I don't consider my self part of Gen Y. I was raised the old school way. I have spent more time in a fire station than alot of people(3rd generation FF) My dad is a Asst. Chief with another department and he always told me if you want to be part of the Fire Service that you have to work hard and do you best.

    The problem is a total lack of motivation to do anything. And I really don't know what the solution is.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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    CALFFBOU -

    Before I begin my response - let me know how old you are.

    I am 28, and I damned sure haven't been given anything. I joined the military, spent 6 years in the Marines. Left a promising career in the Marine Corps to go to college, and have payed my own way to get where I am today. I have tested with many municipal FD's and am waiting for an opportunity to become a paid firefighter. I am also an EMT. While in the Marines and here at college - I have been a volunteer FF in MANY communities.

    Why? All of us older generations had to work
    Trust me my friend, there are plenty of us out here- working just as hard as you.

    Is it because they were spoiled growing up and their parents gave them everything?
    Oh yeah- I am SURE that is it.......

    Please let me know what you think
    I think that before you make an idiot of yourself - you should not make sweeping generalizations about people. I think that you need to reflect back to when you were in their shoes, and remember that seasoned, veteran firefighter that looked past all your youthful bravado; who took jokes from his peers for taking you under his wing...
    I know I remember who that firefighter was in my own dept - and I still look up to him today.

    I remember some of your postings in the past- aren't you an officer within your department - or you have been selected as one? (Honestly not sure..)

    And this is how you feel about your suboordinates?
    Marc

    "In Omnia Paratus"

    Member - IACOJ
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    -- The opinions presented here are my own; and are not those of any organization that I belong to, or work for.

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    Default Mac...

    Mac- Easy cowboy. I wasnt challenging you or questioning
    your background. I very clearly stated that my position
    is part-time vs. my f/t job.

    I also stated "early 20s." Being how your 26, that does
    NOT apply to you. To answer your question, I am in my
    mid-30s.

    You didnt need to take my question so too heart. Yes,
    other officers and myself have worked hard to get
    where we are. We have to work with people in their
    early 20s who simply dont feel they should take test
    and go to an academy for a job, rather just wait for
    one to come to them.

    We have discussed it at great length and agree that
    reality will just have to set in when the bills stack
    up and they are still living with thier parents and
    no career.

    I even took a management class where we discussed
    "Generation Y."

    So FFMacDonald- I have been working hard, going to
    school in this profession for over 17 years and
    attended muliple academies. So please dont generalize
    when you say you have worked as hard as me. You got
    too offened too easy and do owe me an appology in
    reference to the "idiot" comment.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 11-16-2003 at 03:27 AM.

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    CALFFBOU -

    My name is Marc. Not 'Mac' if you are unsure of that - then review the thread before replying- my name is on my signature.

    So FFMacDonald
    My last name is McDonald - Not MacDonald. I'm Irish - not Scottish. Again- if you are unsure. Scroll down and review the thread. It's all right there.

    Being how your 26, that does...
    Actually, I am not 26- I am 28. As is stated in my post. ff7134 is 26 as is stated in his post.


    Please let me know what you think.
    You come onto a national -- no - internationally accessible forum - and ask me what I think.

    I tell you that you shouldn't forget where you came from, that you were probably just like them when you were that age, and that a veteran firefighter, who took you under his wing- probably felt the same way you do now.


    I think that before you make an idiot of yourself - you should not make sweeping generalizations about people
    There I go again- giving my opinon again- just like you asked for.

    I'll restate it another way - but I will not apologize for giving you my opinon.

    I don't think it is very bright to come into an international forum, and alienate everyone who is in the age bracket you mentioned (25 y/o and below).

    I never said you didn't work hard - I did say....

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why? All of us older generations had to work
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Trust me my friend, there are plenty of us out here- working just as hard as you.





    So please dont generalize when you say you have worked as hard as me.
    You know - when you make a statement like that- you are 'implying' that I don't, or haven't worked as hard as you.


    When I was in the Marines - we had 11 leadership Principles, and 14 Leadership traits that we lived by. As with many things that I learned while in the Marine Corps - they serve me just as well in life, as they did while I was in the military.

    I am including one of the leadership principles here, as I believe it benefits the situaition. It is not an attack on anyone - so don't try and point that finger.

    Just substitute - "Firefighter" in place of 'Marine'
    9. Develop a sense of responsibility among your subordinates.
    1. Another way to show your Marines that you are interested in their welfare is to give them the opportunity for professional development. Assigning tasks and delegating the authority to accomplish tasks promotes mutual confidence and respect between the leader and subordinates. It also encourages the subordinates to exercise initiative and to give wholehearted cooperation in the accomplishment of unit tasks. When you properly delegate authority, you demonstrate faith in your Marines and increase their desire for greater responsibilities. If you fail to delegate authority, you indicate a lack of leadership, and your subordinates may take it to be a lack of trust in their abilities.
    2. To develop this principle you should:
    . Operate through the chain of command.
    I. Provide clear, well thought directions. Tell your subordinates what to do, not how to do it. Hold them responsible for results, although overall responsibility remains yours. Delegate enough authority to them to enable them to accomplish the task.
    II. Give your Marines frequent opportunities to perform duties usually performed by the next higher ranks.
    III. Be quick to recognize your subordinates' accomplishments when they demonstrate initiative and resourcefulness.
    IV. Correct errors in judgment and initiative in a way which will encourage the Marine to try harder. Avoid public criticism or condemnation.
    V. Give advice and assistance freely when it is requested by your subordinates.
    VI. Let your Marines know that you will accept honest errors without punishment in return; teach from these mistakes by critique and constructive guidance.
    VII. Resist the urge to micro-manage; don't give restrictive guidance which destroys initiative, drive, innovation, enthusiasm; creates boredom; and increases workload of seniors.
    VIII. Assign your Marines to positions in accordance with demonstrated or potential ability.
    IX. Be prompt and fair in backing subordinates. Until convinced otherwise, have faith in each subordinate.
    X. Accept responsibility willingly and insist that your subordinates live by the same standard.



    If anyone would care for the complete documents, they can e-mail me through my profile. They are good reading, and are applicable everywhere...
    Marc

    "In Omnia Paratus"

    Member - IACOJ
    "Got Crust?"

    -- The opinions presented here are my own; and are not those of any organization that I belong to, or work for.

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    Angry



    CALFFBOU


    Rant ON
    Is 22 young enough for you? As a 22 y/o FF/EMT I take a little bit of what you have to say personal. I have had nothing handed to me. I paid for EMT school and fire academy out of my own pocket with money I earned. I did both while working a full time job at my local PD as a jailer, I spent many nights studying fire science, flow rates, (add any other FF I/II subjects in here) while I was working. Iíd show up at the academy after working all night, sometimes fighting (physically) with unhappy ďcustomersĒ who didnít want to be in jail. I would come to class bruised, tired and physically drained, but I pressed on. I think what you need to do is to step back and maybe reassess your position. Maybe, and its just a maybe, that the young people that you mentor/supervise/whatever it is you do, are specific cases. Maybe its their parents who are spoiling them. I have worked damn hard for the things I have; my career, my training, my continuing pursuit of knowledge, my marriage and my parents didnít spoil me. Sure they helped me out on some things and were there for me when I needed it. So donít be so biased as to say that only the ďolderĒ generations are the only ones that have worked hard.

    Now, on the other hand, I do tend to agree with you that there is a large portion of young people who donít give a damn about anything, and they need a wake up call. There are youngens now days that all they are concerned with is playing grab-*** and slacking off. One of these days they are going to be adults, who slack off and break the law, and have dead-end lives. Yes, all you PC people, I said dead end lives, read it again. Not all of us ď20 somethingísĒ are horrible. Sorry to rant like this, but I HATE it when an age group gets stereotyped just because some of them are slackers. Just because some of ďusĒ are bad doesnít mean that we all are.


    Rant OFF
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    *** These are my opinions, they do not in any way reflect those of my department.***

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    I think that before you make an idiot of yourself - you should not make sweeping generalizations about people.
    All of you should back off this guy because he has hit on a very valid area of discussion.

    To take it to another level, I think that if you searched the database at your local teaching hospital, you will find articles in psychology journals on this very subject. The people at our police academy have made the same anecdotal observations and had actually started to look into this as a research project.

    They have found that Gen Y young adults, as a group, have a few similar traits. Less respect for authority, questionning orders instead of following orders, refusing to accept (like it is an option) undesirable assignments and believing that they are entitled to perks such as good shifts, prime assignments, etc.

    The reasons identified were basically that this is a generation that was almost completely uninfluenced by the military. Most of them never served in the military and most of their parents never served in the military. This is important because they have had no opportunity to be influenced, either directly or indirectly, by military discipline.

    Many of these people have also had a relatively affluent upbringing. During their formative years, there was no sustained period of economic downturn. Therefore, they were able to do things and have things that previous generations didn't have. They knew no period of sacrifice. They also are generally less mature at adulthood then previous generations.

    Lastly, it is the generation of instant gratification. This is influenced greatly by the computer. Whatever you want is a few keystrokes away. Overnight shipping. 24 hour shopping. Etc.

    These factors formed egocentric individuals. These individuals are posing a significant challenge to not only public service trainers, but to the military as well. I just heard yesterday on the radio that one of the branches of service was changing basic training to reduce the emphasis on PT and discipline and put more emphasis on book learning.

    Of course, not every person in this age bracket has turned out to fit the profile above. At our police academy, they have found that recruits that have previously served in the military, or recruits who have a family legacy of public safety experience, are more motivated, more mature and more dedicated than their classmates. They routinely serve as class leaders.

    The challenge for fire service educators is to realize that they are not going to change these people and to adapt their methodology to the changing climate of the fire service.

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    Marc, ff7134, Firefighter631...

    I hate to tell you, but I agree with Calffbou and George on this one. I work support with the Recruit program at the State Fire Academy, and you can tell those who want the job and are willing to learn. Most of them had a military background or are second and third generation firefighters... and then there are those who feel that the are owed the job. You an tell by the attitude... who is willing to volunteer to a demo for an evolution, who takes the initiative, etc. I have actually heard recruits say "whatever" when they were told that they were getting deficiency points for evolutions! If they don't care about errors that happen in training, how will they be on the fireground?

    I will disagree with George on one point...

    The challenge for fire service educators is to realize that they are not going to change these people and to adapt their methodology to the changing climate of the fire service.
    The challenge for the fire service educator is to take the "recruit grade lump of clay" and mold it into a firefighter. The adaption of methodology should be to keep up with technology, not to be "politically correct".
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    The challenge for the fire service educator is to take the "recruit grade lump of clay" and mold it into a firefighter. The adaption of methodology should be to keep up with technology, not to be "politically correct".
    Gonzo, is of course, 100% correct. I did not mean to assert that the methodology should change to the point of dumbing down training or changing to a fuzzy, feel good, atmosphere. This is a demanding job and the training should be demanding.

    But, I think that you will agree, that a Marine Corps, Drill Sergeant approach to fire service training is absolutely useless in this day and age. An atmosphere of respect and pride should be fostered, but shovelling this pile of sand over here...now shovel it back, is lost on this group.

    These recruits are certainly going to be technologically savvy. As Gonzo said, that technology should be used to make training better and more interesting. This technology can help to build trust and respect in the instructor as well.

    If anyone is interested, you might look up the following article that I wrote that discusses the methodology issue, particularly in terms of volunteer fire service training.

    ďUsing Adult Learning Techniques in InstructionĒ,
    Fire Engineering Magazine. May 1999. P.30-40.

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    Default Disclaimer: I'm in my mid-30's

    An important part of the discipline you seek comes from group norming - which is the $10 MBA word for peer pressure.

    Are these interns just short-timers with your unit? They probably know they aren't members of your team and won't ever be. Peer pressure is a powerful force, but it can't work if there are no peers.

    As George brought up, it is a valid topic for discussion. Just look at the Army recruiting slogan: "An Army of One"

    I don't know about the rest of you with military experience, but in my short stint with the Army there were thousands of SOB's just like me. Assimilation was definitely the order of the day. The Army was not advertised as a group of "ME's."
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    Treat all the same.
    Expect everyone to work an expected way. If they fail to comply, correct there errors. If they then fail to act as a professional, drive them out. They are out for themselves and we don't need more of them.
    I.A.C.O.J.


    SOME ARE FIREMEN
    OTHERS ARE JUST ON
    THE FIRE DEPARTMENT

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    If you get offended because you think CalFFBou is talking about you, then maybe you should take a closer look in the mirror. I'm 25 and I take no offense to his post (of course, I don't consider myself part of Gen-Y). He's talking about the particular group of kids he has to supervise.
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    The only way to deal with imputant youth is to break their spirit while they are young an moldable. Make sure to use an iron fist!

    Seriouly, generation Y is worthless. They have some serious issues, they are lazy, and they are never going to amount to anything.

    On the other hand us generation Xers are excellent and well rounded members of society.

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Smile Im 19

    They probably know they aren't members of your team and won't ever be. Peer pressure is a powerful force, but it can't work if there are no peers.
    So true. If they are there just to say yeah I was FF or there to just get points towards there degree there aint much hope.

    When I was an explorer our adviseors had a unique and very good way of setting us straight following orders/directions and fostering team work.
    If we were doing a ladder raise for example, the first time we would make a mistake they would stop and say what we did wrong .
    If we made the mistake a second time(like not saying "prepare for low shoulder carry") they would have all of us hold the 35' extra-heavy Alco-Lite(ironic name huh?) ladder and ask the one person why he felt he was so good that(about now you want to kick the one who messed up cause this ladder is gettin' heavy!) he didnt have to say the commands to the others and why he was so special that ladder commands didnt apply to him.
    And well there was no thrid time cause the second time was so miserable that you didnt want the third time so you would help out your team mates and LISTEN a little more closely next time there talking.

    When I do my internship I plan on doing alot coffe fetching and closet cleaning and I will love every part of it!I just dont know where to do it!
    Massport,State Haz-Mat,Arson investgator(good one for me 7134 )or a few local depts.

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    Originally posted by ff7134
    CALFFBOU

    As a 26 y/o FF I can't tell you the solution for your problem. But you hit it on the head they do believe that it is owed to them and that mommy and daddy did everything for them. If you didn't notice I don't consider my self part of Gen Y. I was raised the old school way. I have spent more time in a fire station than alot of people(3rd generation FF) My dad is a Asst. Chief with another department and he always told me if you want to be part of the Fire Service that you have to work hard and do you best.

    The problem is a total lack of motivation to do anything. And I really don't know what the solution is.
    But you hit it on the head they do believe that it is owed to them and that mommy and daddy did everything for them. If you didn't notice I don't consider my self part of Gen Y.


    To All Notice that I was agreeing with CALFFBOU !!!! I believe their is a problem, AND YES THEIR ARE EXCEPTIOS TO THIS AS ALWAYS!!!
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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    Hey everyone, just wanted to say a few words too! The bottom line is that those who really want to be in the fire service for the sake of firefighting will persevere. Let's face it, we all know that firefighting is a labor of love, not a labor for a big fat checkbook! I just don't get those who join the fire service without a true passion for helping others. Those who are there just to play around will get their "just desserts" in the long run! Unfortunately there are some immature fire guys (and women too) out there, and most of them are "young." But there are definitely some older ones who never grew up too! Hopefully they'll learn from their elders and grow up eventually (even the older ones! ). You can only hope most of them get weeded out in fire academy. But if they're volunteers they may not go thru that. Of course anyone who is a volunteer that doesn't REALLY want to be a firefighter won't last long once they get the dose of reality that they're taking such a risk for no paycheck!

    Okay, just wanted to contribute. Hang in there everybody!

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    I hate generalizations, but I've got to say that I've seen some really pathetic attitudes come through our classes from some of our younger students. BUT, I'll go one step further and say that some of these folks have turned around under the right guidance and stimulus. We even had one walk away from the job because he had to clean, hang, and repack hose. It seems he wasn't going to "clean up after anybody". Gimme a break.

    I try to instil some degree of pride in the profession to combat this attitude. After all, that's part of the reason for the success of the Marines...pride in their history, and a belief that they are an integral part of that history as well as the future of the Corps. You seldom meet a Marine that doesn't have an amazing sense of loyalty to the Corps as well as other Marines, regardless of the length of separation from active duty. Surprisingly, it's worked pretty well so far with our firefighter recruits.

    Like Nozzlethief alluded to, if they want to do the job, they'll do fine. If they're only after the paycheck, they'll never truly make the grade. If nothing else, maybe we can identify it early, and try to effect some sort of "behavior modification".
    Steve Gallagher
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    First of all, I will say that there are several crusties participating in the discussion and there have been differences of opinions, which creates and fuels great discussions. But I will remind everyone to be respectful of EVERYONE's opinion and avoid making personal attacks.
    With that said, CAL made some personal observations of a group of young firefighters that he is mentoring. He made some broad strokes, but no one should take any of it personally. He didn't call you by name. He didn't say anything about your momma. He made some blanket statements that may or may not be accurate. I would guess that this discussion will have a say in some of that.
    Every generation has come under the microscope with each new recruit class. They probably were saying some of the same things over 100 years ago. I doubt that it was as common knowledge back then. They didn't have Internet!
    As it is, I have read several articles discussing the motivation or lack of it, the work ethic or lack of it, the social skills or lack of it, the personal values or lack of it and the desire, determination and success or lack of it that "Generation Y" exhibits or doesn't!
    In other words; everyone is still trying to figure out what makes these kids tick. We are already wondering "where did we go wrong" when I truly believe that we haven't done anything wrong, except not find a way to tap the energy and intelligence of an emerging force in the future of our country.
    Maybe through our discussion here, we will learn more. Giving up on them is ABSOLUTELY NOT THE ANSWER! We have to take them and make them the best damned firefighters of the future. WE HAVE TO DO THAT! Who else will? We can take the most complex issues involved in an incident. We can produce super human efforts at the time of the alarm and yet, we can't find a way to motivate the 20 somethings? And it's not just the 20 somethings. For alot of fire departments, it's the ANY somethings.
    CAL; I understand what you're going through. You will have to be inventive and innovative with your teaching methods. Make it extreme. The "kids" understand that!
    Good luck.
    CR
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    Default Generation Whyyyyyy

    A free entry-level seminar was given recently in So. Calif. There were 150 slots. Candidates were clamoring to reserve their seat. Guess what? Only 75 showed up. Not only that almost all the half that didnít show up didnít call to allow someone else the chance to attend.

    I posted this announcement before the seminar:

    This is a great opportunity! If you are pursuing a firefighter badge, you need to beg, borrow and get there to take advantage of this valuable information. If you learned one thing that could improve your chances towards a badge, wouldn't you want to do it?

    You wouldn't want someone asking "Where were you?"


    Well, I'm asking the question again: Where Were You? The 75 no shows!

    If nothing less this is insulting to those who put the seminar together. Iíve experienced the same results offering FREE seminars and paid ones too. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes putting together a seminar. Unless youíre working with a college program, trying to obtain a centrally located meeting room with parking (usually not free or cheap), getting out the word, arranging for refreshments, renting audio/visual equipment (not cheap either especially at hotels) answering questions, lots of hours maintaining a roster, printing handouts, picking the day and time that trying to fit the majorities schedules and much, much more. After all this work, up to half or more donít show up or have the common courtesy to call when they know they will not make it.

    Yea, you bet itís a big deal! Especially for those who called or e-mailed they would do anything just to get in. They would help out for just the opportunity to attend. Then, theyíre a no show.

    With half no shows, donít give me that crap about something came up at the last minute and with all the electronic leashes this generation carries they couldnít call you on your toll free number. Itís like these folks are in the witness protection program and they canít let any anyone know where they are. Theyíre in such a remote area there arenít even any pay phones to call collect. Spare me this part.

    Donít get me wrong. There are a lot of great candidates out there. Iím told this problem weíre facing is all part of generation Why that is 60 million strong. According to a study conducted by Adele Esheles Gottfreid and her associates at California State University at Northridge, we are overindulging our children to the point that they are not challenged, given almost everything they need or ask for, are not for want, donít have to work and always seem to have enough money. They would seldom work for a fast food restaurant because it wonít pay enough for gas money.

    Ms. Gottfreid says, ďKids are more motivated to do well in school by their parentsí encouragement. The study showed that achievement was lower when parents had rewards of toys, money, or got angry and took privileges away. ďChildren need to get a sense of success through the activity itself. The enhancement of mastery is its own reward.Ē

    Iíve offered free seminars for many years. I get calls from ecstatic people wanting to take me up on the offer of a free seminar in their area. All I request is at least 30 confirmed to be there. Too many times, they had to cancel because they couldnít get that many to commit. Or, a college instructor sets up a free seminar and is reluctant to open it up to outsiders because the fire science students confirmed by e-mail had taken all the seats. You can imagine the embarrassment when I showed up and half the room was empty.

    As Firebug recently posted in The Light Has To Be On: Here is an individual who has a ton of qualifications, is a great worker, but has a poor attitude toward the hiring process. Yet, he didn't take advantage of the whole hiring process.

    A training officers association at Asilomar Conference center faced with a similar program trying to attract entry-level candidates. Through a survey, they found the best meeting time was Sunday afternoon from 1-4 p.m., assuming there wasnít a major sports event going on. This was after being able to sleep in two mornings and getting all that other important stuff out of the way.

    When some candidates were having problems with areas of their academy the instructor offered some extra training time. Instead of taking advantage of the training, they would quit! Then the PC folks forced him to change the program. If you failed one area of the academy, you could come back to the next academy and retake that segment again.

    We stopped keeping a list of names for those wanting to attend our next seminar because when we called them back, few were available for the next date or didnít return the call or e-mail. We even tried a couple of free tele-seminars. Seminars by phone. Although up to 30 could be on the line at the same time, only 9 signed up. Yep, it was a toll free number to call in.

    Too many think if itís free, they have nothing invested. After being stiffed several times, my son Rob had to start securing coaching appointments with a credit card.

    Now you know that for most if not all departments 100% of the score to get the job is in the oral board. You would think more would be ready when the letter arrives inviting you to the interview. Would you be surprised the 30% of our material goes out FEDEX next day service? Donít be.

    Tom runs the warehouse for our distributor. He canít believe candidates will drive 100 miles each way to pick up our material because they have an interview that was sprung on them in a couple of days. He said how can these people get jobs protecting citizens if they canít even get ready for the most important part of getting hired for the position, the oral board?

    Why should there be concern with what the old guys are saying? Well, we can see beyond where you see. We know not only how hard it is to get this job but to keep it too. And understand itís the old guys who are doing the hiring.

    What ever happened to good manners like saying please or thank you? We witnessed a family of four arrive at a nice white linen restaurant last week for momís birthday. As the family was escorted to their table, the two sons and dad immediately sat down leaving mom standing there bewildered that no man in her family seated her. It didnít go unnoticed by those around them or the embarrassed mother. That will find its way all the way to the bedroom.

    I received this from a guy who posted it on the refer for his still adult children at home:

    The following rules should apply to you:
    If you please . . .
    If you sleep on it, make it up.
    If you wear it, hang it up.
    If you drop it, pick it up.
    If you lay it down, put it away.
    If you eat out of it, wash it (or put it in the
    dishwasher).
    If you make a mess, clean it up, now.
    If you open it, close it.
    If you turn it on, turn it off.
    If you empty it, fill it up.
    If you lose it, find it yourself.
    If you borrow it, put it back where it belongs.
    If you move it, return it.
    If you break it, replace it.
    If it rings, answer it.
    If it howls or meows, feed it or let it out.
    If it cries, love it.

    Thank you. The Management.

    Time is the most valuable thing a man can spend.
    óLaertus Diogenes (3rd Century)


    You can find more on testing secrets in the Career Article section in the job section of this firehouse.com web site.

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

  20. #20
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
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    Cool Well..............

    OK, Pay attention! I'm from generation MCIXL, meaning that I'm so old that they used Roman numerals. At 62, a 3rd Generation Firefighter, a Chief, and an Instructor, I can honestly claim to have seen a lot. 2 things stand out. Yes, there are those who think their sh** doesn't have an aroma, who won't do a thing that they are not greatly overcompensated for, and who absolutely know beyond any doubt that they are entitled to a position and a check. I don't know if these are the majority of their generation or not, and, quite frankly, I could care less. As an instructor, I have standards that apply to everyone equally, you meet them, fine. You don't meet them, there are several steps that allow for a turnaround, if not, you're gone. I don't give refunds, or, for those who fail to show, rain checks. Poop upon them, I got work to do. Then there's the other type, in particular (as an example) 2 of my grandkids, Danny the Ox, and Linda the bookworm. At 23, Danny has 7 years as a very active Volunteer, taken a lot of courses, picked up a couple of commemdations, and will probably make Lt. after the first of the year. He's a human forcible entry tool when necessary, and a compassionate EMT-B as well. Linda is 16, doing the High School Cadet route into emergency services, and is doing it in fine style, with high scores on just about everything that she has done. Both of them, (there are 5 more younger ones waiting for the magic age of 16) starting the fifth generation in our family's firefighting history, have something to live up to, and, no doubt, they will. Different types? Sure. Do we need to worry about the future of the Fire service? I really don't think so. I think Brett just hit a difficult bunch, all in one group. As those who think they are entitled find out otherwise, they'll have to get with the program, or get on down the road. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  21. #21
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    As a third generation retired firefighter I notice the younger firefighters in my department look at the service a lot different than the old experienced ones. Some have gone to various recruit academies and have come back saying that all the old COJ's needs to go. Last year 2 rural trucks were wrecked,1 totaled and the motor in another was trashed. I helped raise the money to purchase these pieces of apparatus and these people show no remorse about their habits. Money in my area doesn't grow on trees and some of these people think the public should open their checkbooks and start writing. I tell these young people that respect is earned and not demanded.

  22. #22
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    Rescue101's Avatar
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    Here we go!Seldom will you find me agreeing with the left coast Caliboose.Particularly on head adornment.But make no mistake;he is describing a VERY REAL and SCARY truth about a section of FF wannabees.Except they don't think they should be held to the same standard.Our training organization has adopted the "correct"touchy/feely way of dealing with trainees.To the point of I've been "boned" for "intimidating"students.Well folks,I openly admit I have the sublety of a brick.But I take Firefighter safety VERY seriously,and training even more so.Firefighters,taught properly,will revert to that training when the poop hits the impeller.In doing that,they will probably survive.If you can't hold up your end,far be it better to find out in training than on the real deal.I ask nothing more of my students than has been asked of me:But I DAMN sure expect them to meet established criteria.And if they don't,I certainly expect them to expect to be asked to try again.Thank God there are still enough of us old crusty bulls kicking around that most of them won't fall thru the cracks.Oh,Marc and a few of the rest of you "youngsters"that are taking a bit of a 'tude over this thread;as you're regular respondents here and you two are;you're not the shorttimers this thread refers to anyway.Live long and prosper(or at least get smarter).T.C.

  23. #23
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    FiremedicMike's Avatar
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    I feel my honesty in admitting my mistakes will serve very well with this thread.

    I was a member of gen-y. My parents spoiled me to death to make up for what they didn't have growing up. I came into the fire service as a know-it-all, not sure I felt owed a job, but the lack of respect rang true.

    So what fixed me (if I am, in fact, fixed)? Hazing. I was ignored, shoved aside, not listened too even if I had a valid point, pulled into the office, pulled into the office, oh did I mention I was pulled into the office.

    I feel I've matured a lot. I finally sat back and went, "hey, maybe its not everyone else thats wrong, maybe its me". So I worked and I strived to realize my place and to belong. I have always put forth my share, but now I have a lot more respect for what my share is, and its made me stronger, better, and I realize my place.. I think

    Am I perfect now? absolutely not. In my head I still question things that are told to me, but I do what is told of me... I'm getting there..

  24. #24
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    I must add to my last post, I did not last 28 yrs in the fire service telling the old COJ's that they did not know anything and weren't any longer needed. When any of the older experienced firefighters would have any input about an incident the younger ones would tear apart what was being said. I was always told birds of a feather flock together and is that so ever true today. also what goes around comes around.

  25. #25
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    KnightnPBIArmor's Avatar
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    I am a 37yo Captain in a small combination department, and the same frustration being expressed with dealing with Gen Y sounds a lot like the exasperation being expressed by the Baby Boomer officers in dealing with the Gen X'ers when I came on board in 1984, LOL.

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