1. #1
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    Angry Another Cincinnati Incident

    Full story here: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,104467,00.html

    Now, from what I saw in the tape, those officers had a right to defend themselves against this guy. He's a 350 pound black male. He passed out in front of a White Castle and medics were called to help. Appearently, he was being beligerent with the medics so they called the police.

    One of the police officers kept telling him at first to get back and he kept coming. He swung at the officer hit him in the head, almost knowcking him to the ground. His partner came around in front of the car and they wrestled him to the ground and when he kept fighting back they started prodding the man with their nightsticks to keep him off guard. They eventually got the man down but went into an arrest. He died at the hospital...

    Now the all knowing Jesse Jackson has decided to poke his nose into business that usually isn't his and accuse Cincy cops of beating the man to death. He was high on cocaine and PCP at the time. It's very likely this man died of heart failure coupled with drug overdose and not the cops hitting him with night sticks and if you look at the tape, the officers are hitting him in the flank areas and not getting any effect.

    Some activists, I just finished watching one on Fox, says that police officers should be trained to deal with mentally disturbed people. That may be true, but it's hard to accomplish when you have a 400 pound suspect striking officers and resisting arrest.

    All I can say is that the police did they best they could and this man chose to fight instead of follow directions. I don't care if he was on drugs or not. The police did the right thing.

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    He's a 350 pound black male
    So a 350 pound white guy isnt going to swing at cop?

    Im with the cops on this one though,the autopsy I think will clear them.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Best news for the officers is that the autopsy shows NO connection between their nightsticks and his death.

    The "community leaders" are gonna find themselves spinning their wheels and going nowhere.

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    I wasn't saying that a person of any other race in the same sitaution wouldn't.

    Considering how Cincy has had situations similiar that have become racial issues, I figured it would be important to mention race since it is being made a factor.

    A very vocal radio commentator, probably the AM 700WLW commentator I enjoy listenging to the most, went to toe to toe with a defense lawyer who couldn't stand an arguement against the officers.

    I agree, then Jesse will come down and start a riot, just like last time. People have noticed that Jesse Jackson does more harm to their cause than good, just look at Iraq and the Middle East in general.

    Good one Jesse.
    Last edited by engine1321; 12-01-2003 at 11:36 PM.

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    Originally posted by stm4710
    [B] So a 350 pound white guy isnt going to swing at cop?
    What does this have to do with anything?........It doesn't, so don't even start with the race issue if thats where your going.

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    fiftyfive,if you cant see the sarcasm in that I cant help you.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Oh crap, I'm retarted, I see it now..hahahahaha.. its been a long day . sorry man!! I just hate when people start with the race issue when its not necessary

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    Default Two Words...Personal Accountability

    Some people just don't get it. When you weigh 400 lbs, have hypertensive heart disease (which he may or may not have known), take a mix of cocaine and PCP, go out in public and lose the ability to think clearly and control yourself, pick a fight with the cops, lose the ability to follow simple instructions like "stay back" and "put your hands behind your back," you're gonna get beat down by the cops.

    It's that simple. I live in Greater Cincinnati and his neighbor actually said on the TV news that the guy suffered from narcalepsy (sp?) and that's why he was napping on the grounds of the White Castle. What? He was high! He attacked a cop! They said he was a big gentle man who would never hurt anyone. He probably was, when he wasn't HIGH! All things like race, religion, height, weight, gender are out the window when these mind-altering drugs are involved. I'm so sick of this racial crap in this city. If this was a 120 lb. white girl, high on coke and PCP, they still would've had one helluva fight on their hands because PCP gives these people incredible amounts of adrenaline and they sometimes cannot feel pain.

    Can the cops just please do their job without all these so-called leaders demanding investigation after investigation?

    The people who should be the most ****ed at all this are the 6 cops ivolved who were subjected to hours of questioning and had their Miranda rights read to them. What?

    The tape speaks volumes. The autopsy will clear the officers. Those of us in and around Cincinnati will continue to have to put up with the Nate Livingston's, the Damon Lynch's, the Kabaca Aba's, the Jesse Jackson's, and the Al Sharpton's of the world.

    Can't we all just get along?
    Lt. D. Gordon
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    Oh right. So now all people who mix PCP and cocaine are criminals?

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    George,
    Once again, I'm going to have to get my halligan to get your tongue out of your cheek.

    Seriously, Cincinnati Fire is being asked why the engine company which initially responded to the scene left during the altercation between the man who died and the police. Police had to call them back to the scene once the person was subdued and found to be not breathing.

    Here's one link:

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...loc_loc1a.html

    In another source, several officers were quoted from the cruiser videos as wondering why fire left the scene. I can't find that article right now.

    As best I can tell, Cincinnati Fire doesn't have a protocol for chemical restraint/sedation.

    The consensus so far seems to be that a pre-existing heart condition, aggravated by drug use, caused the man's death.
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Oh right. So now all people who mix PCP and cocaine are criminals?
    Well....technically they are! Given the fact that both are ILLEGAL substances, the possession and/or use of them does in fact make you a criminal, technically.


    I too am greatly looking forward to Jesse, Al and their gang eating a big S@#T sandwich on this one.
    Mark
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    IAFF Local 10

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    Default PCP incidents...

    Dealing with people cranked on coke and PCP is a freakin' nightmare. A few years ago, we had once such case... a 20 year old who was high on both substances. His girlfriend called 911 when he came home with his right hand slashed to ribbons (he got mad at someone and punched out a few plate glass windows on his way home and never felt a thing) This "kid" weighed all of 140 pounds soaking wet, yet it took 3 firefighters, 2 paramedics and 4 cops to restrain him to get him on a stretcher for transport to the hospital.
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    Default More On The Cincinnati In-Custody Death

    Here's a more current article:

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...oc_tape03.html

    It includes a timeline of most of the incident. One key point is that from the time police arrive on scene to when the engine co returns is 7 minutes. My editorial comment: that's moving pretty quickly.

    The article may be incorrect in one respect: I believe the engine co that responded is BLS, not ALS.

    I have confirmed that Cincy FD does not have a protocol for chemical restraint.

    There are some complaints about the FD from the cops quoted. As best I can tell, the engine co was gone from the scene for somewhere between 2-5 minutes. The fire union head has already talked to the police union head and assured them that fire is there for the cops.

    Like Capt. Gonzo, I've had to fight & restrain a number of mentals/OD's, including crack OD's. Whether you think they're criminal or not, they're definitely very dangerous - to themselves and others.

    All I've seen or heard about this incident is in the public press. Still, given the timeline, witness statements, coroner's report, photo's etc, it sure sounds to me like the cops did their jobs as best they could in a bad situation. Maybe the overall incident wasn't managed perfectly, but none ever are. It certainly was managed very well. Perhaps the engine co shouldn't have left, but even so, their response was well within AHA recommendations for response to cardiac arrest.
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    If I remember correctly, the 38s are not a paramedic engine company, but they do have a rescue (paramedic) unit ambulance in house. And the reason they left is two fold. They treated on scene a woman hyperventilating, thus thinking that she was who they were called for. The second is that once the police are called to handle a beligerent individual our SOP says to let the police transport, or even back out and stage in dangerous situations. It kind of sucks that we have to carry bulletproof vests on the apparatus, but I guess that is where the world is.

    As to all these "activists" coming out of the woodwork, it is just self indulgent, inflammatory, and derogatory crap and it is self serving. It is blatantly obvious why he died, but many talking heads want to undercut the authority of the police here in Cincinnati because it helps them gain prestige and money from their constituency. These media whores say what they do because it is self serving, they don't want to solve any problems here (whatever they are), because if they did they would disappear from the public view. The latest event was the local lawyer having a press conference with the mans family saying how good a man he was, how he wouldn't hurt a fly, etc etc. And how they don't trust the coroner and want to have their own autopsy done. When was this press conference done? Right at noon, so the local news would carry it live, how convenient.
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    Default More Local Coverage

    From the evening newspaper:

    http://www.cincypost.com/2003/12/03/cfire120303.html

    However, most of the fuss is still being directed at the PD. The kindest thing I can say is that much of the reactions appear to be coming from the author's previously formed opinions about things, not the specifics of this incident.
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    I would assume carrying them is a lot different than wearing them. LA, for example. I saw a show where paramedics put on their vests under their bunker coats...

    That has to be hot, a vest and then a coat?

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    Default Homicide!!

    I just heard on the noon news break that they have ruled this guys death as a homicide. I can't believe that they are going to go after those cops. What is the country coming to?

    Patrick

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    From what I understand from reading the newsclips, the coroner has called the death "homicide" because he died after the struggle; appearantly the coroner believes that the physical problems were exacerbated by the struggle.

    No charges have been filed against any of the police officers involved as far as I have found, which will be left up to the prosecutor's office. I sure hope that these officers are not prosecuted when it is clear that their use of force was not excessive in any way.

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    Yep, it was a clinical homicide cuz the coroner only had four labels that he could use for his death, natural causes, suicide, accident, or homicide. Here is the story from wcpo.com...


    The Hamilton County coroner said Wednesday that a struggle with police was the primary cause of the death of a suspect this past weekend in Cincinnati.
    Dr. Carl Parrott added that if suspect Nathaniel Jones hadn't been using cocaine and other drugs, and if he hadn't had heart disease that may have resulted from drug use, he probably would have survived the struggle.

    "An event caused his death. It was a purposeful effort on the part of the police officers to subdue him. That resulted in the struggle that resulted in the death. I don't really have a choice other than to call it a homicide," Parrott said.

    Parrott added that Jones' death has been ruled a homicide by his office, but was quick to point out that the term is strictly clinical.

    "This word should not be implied as inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police. The word does not imply hostile intent," Parrott said.

    "We have four options and we have to pick one," said Parrott, indicating that the death did not fall in the classifications of suicide, accident or natural cause.

    A police cruiser videotape shows a violent confrontation between officers and Jones, 41, in the parking lot of a fast-food restaurant. Jones was repeatedly beaten with nightsticks as officers try to subdue him.

    Jones, who weighed 350 pounds, had an enlarged heart and hypertensive heart disease, coroner Carl Parrott said.

    Toxicologists also found "intoxicating levels" of the illegal drug PCP (angel dust,) which was taken approximately five hours or less before death and "intoxicating levels" of cocaine, which was taken approximately three hours or less before death.

    Methanol, a frequent constituent of embalming fluid, was also found in Jones' system. Methanol is sometimes found in PCP-spiked cigarettes, Parrott said.


    This is pathetic. These guys did their job and it looks like now they are going to get crucified for it, and the city will have to shell out alot of money to get this settled. Cincinnati is not a bad town, sure it isn't perfect, but a very few "activists" are making it hard for the rest of us to live in peace and harmony with each other. You guys should hear of some of the other stories about the problems between police and some in the community...
    "We had trouble putting out the fire because the house and everything in it was burning at the time"---The Chief while speaking to the press--no lie

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    I read a news report on AOL regarding this a few minutes ago, it is now 3:18 12/3/2003. They listed the cause of death as an irregualr heart rhythm exacerbated by a an aggressive struggle.

    They also listed multiple bruises to "the lower portion of the body" but no injuries to the head, and no organ damage.

    Big surprise, his friends and family say he was always friendly and never was harmful to anyone.

    I guess the tape wasn't viewed by the family then was it? Jesse Jackson is already beginning to stir up another race riot over this too. Best of luck to boys and girls in Cincinatti.
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    Hey if it comes to another riot in Cincy then there is one good thing that will come out of it. RECALL! Sweet Overtime pay.
    "We had trouble putting out the fire because the house and everything in it was burning at the time"---The Chief while speaking to the press--no lie

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    Here is a story I scuffeled up real fast after reading our local news website. In my own opinion I see another riot approaching. Man and Im suppost to go over to Cincinnati soon to a uniform shop. OH well I hope nothing happens but this is Cincinnati were talking about.

    Here is the story.




    Reported by: 9News
    Web produced by: Liz Foreman
    Photographed by: 9News
    Last updated: 12/3/03 1:51:19 PM

    The Hamilton County coroner said Wednesday that a struggle with police was the primary cause of the death of a suspect this past weekend in Cincinnati.
    Dr. Carl Parrott added that if suspect Nathaniel Jones hadn't been using cocaine and other drugs and if he hadn't had heart disease that may have resulted from drug use, he probably would have survived the struggle.

    "An event caused his death. It was a purposeful effort on the part of the police officers to subdue him. That resulted in the struggle that resulted in the death. I don't really have a choice other than to call it a homicide," Parrott said.

    Parrott added that Jones' death has been ruled a homicide by his office, but was quick to point out that the term is strictly clinical.

    "This word should not be implied as inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police. The word does not imply hostile intent," Parrott said.

    "We have four options and we have to pick one," said Parrott, indicating that the death did not fall in the classifications of suicide, accident or natural cause.

    A police cruiser videotape showed a violent confrontation between officers and Jones, 41, in the parking lot of a fast-food restaurant. Jones was repeatedly beaten with nightsticks as officers tried to subdue him.

    Jones, who weighed 350 pounds, had an enlarged heart and hypertensive heart disease, coroner Carl Parrott said.

    Toxicologists also found "intoxicating levels" of the illegal drug PCP (angel dust) which was taken approximately five hours or less before death and "intoxicating levels" of cocaine, which was taken approximately three hours or less before death.

    Methanol, a frequent constituent of embalming fluid, was also found in Jones' system. Methanol is sometimes found in PCP-spiked cigarettes, Parrott said.
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    Jesse Jackson is already beginning to stir up another race riot over this too.
    Nah, it's way too cold for rioting.

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