1. #1
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    Angry Negligent Engineering?

    I happened to be paying attention during some commercials on television last night and was bothered by the ad for the new Ford pick-up. Have any of you noticed it?

    It shows the truck in a sound lab with speakers blaring a fire engine’s siren/air horn, and then the view switches to inside the cab with the noise level monitor showing the annoying road noise staying outside where it belongs.

    Driving emergency vehicles is dangerous enough when the drivers CAN hear us coming and now the engineers at Ford have put us and the public in greater danger by designing a soundproof cab so the drivers won’t be ANNOYED by our sirens!

    What's next? Eliminating all of the windows so our lights can't blink in their eyes?
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    You know Rev back a few months ago when I saw the commerical for the 04' F-150 with "quiet steel" or whatever I thought the same thing:just another reason why---Ford sucks!.
    Then again I have been in some Toyota Camrys and Nissan Maximas and I dont hear them till litterly they passed the car,accpet for the Q!!! I swear my ears are tuned to the Q.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Unfortunately, Rev, many people consider our lights and sirens a nuisance unless their house is on fire or their loved on is sick.
    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
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    Angry Thought engineers were supose to be

    Aren't engineers suppose to be somewhat bright, look at all angles and considerations, well duh! As much as I hate to say ANYTHING that could support or assist a lawyer, PICTURE this 1st bad MVA with one of those trucks, because thay couldn't hear the siren, (a.k.a. Emergency Warning Devices), if any of our brothers or sisters were hurt, (god forbid, please) clue the shyster into the commercial, boy oh boy, every lawyer will be lining up for a piece of Ford's assets. Programing / building something that specifically defeats emergency warning devices, the sharks will have a feeding freenzy!

    Is this where I should put my disclaimer about my opinion,just mine!

    BUT, HEY YOU LAWYERS, REMEMBER IF YOU USE IT I SAID IT FIRST, all tips, gratuties, and consulting fees, into the Swiss Bank account , please, LOL.
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    Originally posted by CJMinick390
    Unfortunately, Rev, many people consider our lights and sirens a nuisance unless their house is on fire or their loved on is sick.
    This is absolutely correct. It is not going to change.

    We need to adjust our driving habits to compensate for this new technology. You cannot assume that the ohter driver hears or sees you.

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    A few years ago, when I was an assistant chief, I responded to a serious MVA with lights (reds and wig-wags) and siren on. It was an extremely hot day, and I got behind a car of which I assume had the air conditioner on, the radio playing, and of course, all the windows closed. As oncoming traffic was pulling to the right side of the road, this woman just kept driving. I was unable to pass her, so I followed her for two miles to where she was stopped by fire police (who had shut down the highway at that point)and I was allowed to continue to the scene.
    It's not just that they are making newer vehicles soundproof. The older vehicles are as sound indifferent as people allow them to be.
    With surround sound stereos, air conditioners, driver inattentiveness, and/or whatever, emergency vehicle drivers have to be ALWAYS on the defensive when responding to alarms.
    The instance I refer to also shows that you cannot trust people to check their rearview mirror very often either.
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    From CT State Statute 14-283:

    (g) Any person who wilfully or negligently obstructs or retards any ambulance or emergency medical service organization vehicle while answering any emergency call or taking a patient to a hospital, or any vehicle used by a fire department or any officer or member of a fire department while on the way to a fire, or while responding to an emergency call, or any vehicle used by the state police or any local police department, or any officer of the Division of State Police within the Department of Public Safety or any local police department while on the way to an emergency call or in the pursuit of fleeing law violators, shall be fined not more than two hundred dollars or imprisoned not more than seven days or both.

    ...

    (i) A police officer may issue a written warning or a summons to the owner of a vehicle based upon an affidavit signed by the operator of an emergency vehicle specifying (1) the license plate number, color and type of any vehicle observed violating any provision of subsection (e) or (g) of this section, and (2) the date, approximate time and location of such violation.



    If you are in CT, make sure you take a note of it and report it.
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    I drive GM manufactured automobiles and I notice that a siren in the phazer mode seems to penetrate my SUV. Why can't the manufacturers of sirens have a way for the sounds to penetrate the radio speakers in POVs.

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    I don't blame the engineers for this.

    The car companies make their cars in response to the consumer. The consumer wants a quite car- they design a quite car.

    As has been previously stated, we ned t oadjust our driving habits to compensate....
    Luke

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    I feel that the days of responding with lights and sirens may be growing short.

    There seems to be a trend toward "quiet" responce, where the engine obays all of the traffic laws, follows the flow of trafic, and they dont have their lights or sirens going.

    Yes, slower, but from what I have read almost 100% safe from trafic incidents when compaird to code red travel.

    ?

    Who knows, sure, the fire will get bigger and somebody will likely die as a result of slower responce times, but when you consider that the number 2 killer of firemen is traffic accidents, then maybe quite responce makes sence.

    If we could eliminate traffic deaths that would in a way make up for some of the negatives, maybe.

    Some places are trying it, and the verdict still seems to be out.

    Me, I realy want to be able to use our new LED flashers! They are so damn cool!!!
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    ciffret


    Why can't the manufacturers of sirens have a way for the sounds to penetrate the radio speakers in POVs.

    If this were to occur, the way some people "Blast" their speakers, the world would be a haven for deaf people.
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    ** Warning Rant mode is now engaged and set to ludicrous speed **

    Why should WE have to adjust what we do to compensate for the wants & needs of Mr & Mrs John Q Public who don't want Little Johny & Suzy Q Public to be able to clearly hear every note of Winnie the Pooh on their high dollar DVD system in their new Megamobile ???

    Current technology gives us cars that talk, cars that call for directions, cars that call for help, car's that can tell some Central operator in nowheresville that the Megamobile just decelerated from 65 MPH to 0 MPH in 1.7 seconds, all air bags deployed, and that there are 4 occupants in the vehicle.

    We also have the ability to turn red lights to green, there are some radar detectors on the market that have an "Emergency Vehicle Approaching" message that can be triggered in much the same manner as the traffic lights.

    Why can't that feature be incorporated into every new automobile? Who cares if the person in the car can't hear us coming if there is some other system to alert them? How many pilots hear other aircraft approaching ?? Not many - that's why (larger) aircraft have collision warning indicators in them.

    It all boils down to what the consumer considers important and thus request the automakers put in their automobile.

    ** Rant Mode now disengaged **

    O.K. - so I know that no matter what Buck Rodgers gadget we put in cars, we'll still have to adjust for the other driver (until we get car's that drive themselves and are programmed to move for emergency vehicles) - it's just a shame that companies will spend millions in research and consumers will then spend billions for these "Luxury" features all the while no one gives a rats behind about the truly important things.

    *sigh* Thank you for allowing me to vent - I feel much better now.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
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    Rev, I was complaining to my wife just last night that they could have used something other than sirens & airhorns to illustrate their "quiet steel".

    George is right, WEhave to adjust OUR driving because they aren't gonna adjust theirs.

    Remember, just because your lights are on and your siren is wailing doesn't mean you have to drive 100 mph, blowing through intersections.
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    I have said something to someone about this. it is stupid to have a car that quiet. in illinois there is a law on the interstate that you cant be in the fast lane unless you are in the act of passing. not everyone does it but most do. They did this to keep the fast lane open for emergency vehicles. i know the dept that has that interstate will shut the interstate down if there is a accident that is in the slow lane just for safety of their guys. the state cops hate it because then they have to do something, and the cops cant shut down a federal highway. and legally a fire truck, ambulance, cop cant blow stop signs. only mail-men can for some reason. but thats why we have the lights is to tell the other driver to surrender their right of way to us. we have a guy on the dept that will sometimes pull his personal truck over in the intersection to block traffic if he is responding the same time the trucks are crossing the intersection. we have a bad intersection that gets blown from any direction almost probably once a day.
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    We need to adjust our driving habits to compensate for this new technology. You cannot assume that the ohter driver hears or sees you.
    Or, that they even care. Not an hour ago, we were responding to a report of a child in seizure activity. One nice truck driver didn't think he needed to get out of our way. I could plainly see him looking (scowling) at us in his rearview mirror. Plus, we noticed that he had his window down as we finally got around him at an intersection. Had it not been for the traffic signal, we never would have gotten around him. What a jerk.

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    Those are the people that you almost want to run right off the road. they are also the ones that i would make sure got in trouble. if i knew the law in illinois i would make sure there were pens and paper in every truck to right that info down. (only if time and manpower permitted) those are the people that deserve to get tickets/license revokation
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    Originally posted by N2DFire
    We also have the ability to turn red lights to green, there are some radar detectors on the market that have an "Emergency Vehicle Approaching" message that can be triggered in much the same manner as the traffic lights.

    Why can't that feature be incorporated into every new automobile?
    I was just going to say the same thing.

    Technology in cars these days is amazing. They can do virtually anything you can dream up. I think this is the next logical progression, but it isn't going to be voluntary so some how we are going to have to get the message to Detroit and the govt that this is required.

    A bunch of fatalities will probably do it eventually, but there has got to be a way to lobby for this type of technology sooner than that.

    Cars are only going to get quieter every year.
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    Cars are only going to get quieter every year.
    Oh, yeah? Well, that brings to mind a wild looking engine/tanker built for a "up north" department I noticed in a mag the other day; the thing was black, and had TWO Federal Q2b's, along with airhorns and electric sirens. Cars get quieter, we'll just get louder, I guess!

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    Default Re: Thought engineers were supose to be

    Originally posted by CharlieRFDPres
    PICTURE this 1st bad MVA with one of those trucks, because thay couldn't hear the siren, (a.k.a. Emergency Warning Devices), if any of our brothers or sisters were hurt, (god forbid, please) clue the shyster into the commercial, boy oh boy, every lawyer will be lining up for a piece of Ford's assets.

    It's worth poiniting out that most states' emergency vehicle statutes use language to the effect that speed limits and control devices may be ignored . . . with due regard to the safety of others. . .

    Of course WE are the only ones in the motoring public that have to drive with that "due regard." I would offer that any collision involving one of these super-quiet vehicles and a BRT is more likely to go against the fire department than Ford Motor Co.
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    ThNozzleman

    Or, that they even care. Not an hour ago, we were responding to a report of a child in seizure activity. One nice truck driver didn't think he needed to get out of our way. I could plainly see him looking (scowling) at us in his rearview mirror. Plus, we noticed that he had his window down as we finally got around him at an intersection. Had it not been for the traffic signal, we never would have gotten around him. What a jerk.
    If this be the case, does your Department have a good working relationship with the police? If the plate number is taken and a description of the car, (make, model, etc.) wouldn't the PD issue a ticket for failure to give way to an emergency vehicle?
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    Why can't that feature be incorporated into every new automobile?
    Quite simply, two reasons:
    1. The motoring public (car buyers) doesn't want it
    2. Detroit is not going to put money into a feature that is not wanted and people won't pay for

    I think you just have to accept that this is the way it is. The Congress can't agree on fuel economy standards for Detroit. They sure as hell won't legislate this.

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    Default Re: Negligent Engineering?

    Originally posted by IACOJRev
    I happened to be paying attention during some commercials on television last night and was bothered by the ad for the new Ford pick-up. Have any of you noticed it?

    It shows the truck in a sound lab with speakers blaring a fire engine’s siren/air horn, and then the view switches to inside the cab with the noise level monitor showing the annoying road noise staying outside where it belongs.

    Driving emergency vehicles is dangerous enough when the drivers CAN hear us coming and now the engineers at Ford have put us and the public in greater danger by designing a soundproof cab so the drivers won’t be ANNOYED by our sirens!

    What's next? Eliminating all of the windows so our lights can't blink in their eyes?
    Ummm...Rev...

    There is a huge difference between the sounds of air horns and sirens over speakers in a lab vs. out in the "real world".

    Ford is touting its "quiet steel" technology as a way of reducing road noise coming through the frame and the cab.

    As long as there is auto glass and decibels, there should be no problem in being seen and heard.

    The problem is with the morons on the road who forgot one of the basics of "Driver's Ed 101"...pull to the right for sirens and lights!"
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    I have to echo the illustrious thoughts of the captain, do you believe everything you see advertised? Its hype, while no doubt this pickup is more silent than previous models it will be far from "silent."

    There is a device on the market that we can mount on our vehile which transmits a short warning message such as "Emergency vehicle approaching, pull over" (personally I'd play the line from The Russians are Comimg) on all AM and FM radio frequencies. It has a range of a few hundred feet and is approved by the FCC. Of course if the driver is listening to a CD or satilite radio it does not do anything for us.
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