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  1. #1
    Member JuliaFire's Avatar
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    Default Battle for the White House

    I just saw General Clark speak tonight and he has his act squared away. I am very impressed with what I have seen so far from him. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, an ace at forgeign and military policy, and extremely intelligent and witty. Seems like he'd make a good leader.

    So, who are you voting for...and WHY?


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    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    I'm Canadian so my vote doesn't count, but I saw Gen. Clark on "Meet the Press" among other interviews a couple of weeks back and he did seem to have his act together.

    I think his biggest asset is his experience with the NATO ops in Kosovo. He knows how to generate support and run an international coalition, and that is certainly going to be essential if you want to keep the war on terror rolling. If you guys are going to toss Dubya, he is probably the best man to clean up the mess.

    I do have to chuckle at the fact that he is from Little Rock, Arkansas however. I'm sure Little Rock would love to see him overshadow Slick Willie's Lewinsky legacy.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    Default Re: Battle for the White House

    Originally posted by JuliaFire
    I just saw General Clark speak tonight and he has his act squared away. I am very impressed with what I have seen so far from him. Fiscally conservative, socially liberal, an ace at forgeign and military policy, and extremely intelligent and witty. Seems like he'd make a good leader.

    So, who are you voting for...and WHY?
    Exactly which of his policies do you agree with? What are his strong points? How will he end the Iraqi situation? Which of the governmental positions that he has held will help him when he is elected? How does he feel about the job Pres. Bush's adminstration has done in Iraq? How does he feel about past Rep. Administrations? Convince us with facts.

  4. #4
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    I feel the field of prospects is not anywhere near what it should be. I do not believe the federal government should be in teh position of administering any social programs. That is not to say that the ideas are not good, just extremely inefficient in their processes adn distribution.

    As for Mr. Clark, he wsa essentially removed from his NATO position due to some unknown "ethical reasons" as it has been quoted though little information has been able to be obtained about it.

    Having my military background, I have a problem when three retired generals, notoriously a closed group of close associates adn friends, have publicly stated that there is no way that they could support or vote for Gen. Clark. Two of those being retired chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. John Shalikashvili, and Gen. Hugh Shelton (who apparently removed Gen. Clark from supreme allied commander of NATO for these "ethical reasons." An addition Lt. General (three stars) stated he could not support or vote for him either though I cannot recall the name. These are people who have known him for years, worked with him, supervised, him, and worked under his command.

    In addition, Mr. Clark waited to answer questions about how he felt about the war in Iraq until polls were in. He has also made statements at the beginning of the war adn after after September 11, 2003 that he was glad George W. Bush was president and that Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were with him. A few montsh ago he made opposing statements to this. He goes with the ebb and flow of polls. Exactly how can you be an effective leader if you do not stand by your convictions?

    I couldn't bring myself to vote for Gephardt or Kerry. I would feel a tremendous need to delouse after doing so. Sharpton, Mosely-Braun, and Kucinich haven't got a prayer and all need to drop out and stop wasting eeveryone's time. I actually like Lieberman, I find him straightforward and strong on defense adn moderate in his social standings.

    Overall I have a problem with voting for any politician who has never worked a day in their lives, i.e. Gephardt, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, etc. Kerry has been on the hill for about 30 years. Time to go pal. Change is good. Same for Gephardt. NEw ideas are always needed. If you have been on the hill for more than 10 years you are way too entrenched in the thievery and BS of the system and I cannot trust you to do what is right.

    While I enjoy the "outsider" position of Clark and Dean, you do not get to have 4 stars on your shoulder without being a politician. You don't even get one star without being a politician.

    Dean has some good things going for him. He is an outsider, he reformed the state of Vermont to get healthcare for children, this, as I said, is not well handled at teh federal level adn I hope he understands that. His level of secrecy regarding his orders and documents sets me off. He is strong for gun owner rights, and to a point is pretty financially conservative. He also realizes that the troops are in Iraq to stay and get the job done, though he did not support the action. This shows cognitive thinking and reasoning abilities.

    Overall, Democrats tend to pander way too much to the fringe, extreme left. I do not believe in high taxes, socialism, abortion, gun control, affirmative action, lifetime welfare, social security or meidcare / medicaid for everyone. By doing so, you hinder growth, prosperity, and self respect. This gives me heavy thoughts abotu voting for most Democrats at the federal and state level. Have I voted for them in teh past? Yes, Will I in the future? More than likely. I vote on an individual, regardless of their party affiliation.

    That being said, I also have some problems with the republicans pandering to other special interest groups. I do not believe that the death penalty is appropriate, I do feel Republicans could be stronger on the environment.

    As for Mr. Bush, I voted for him in 2000 and will probably vote for him again in 2004. While I also do not like th elevel of secrecy he holds with his correspondence adn investigations, much of it is necessary - like it or not. I supported and still support the decision of Iraq and the war. I do not care that France, Germany, and Russia have their noses out of joint. I am not concerned that the UN is upset. They have been weak and innefective for years.

    I enjoy tax cuts. If you cut my money going to Washington adn I spend it, I support the economy, buy things, save jobs and create jobs, and increase the profits of corporations. In doing so, the federal, state, and local governments actually collect / receive more money. If more liberal minded people would understand this concept, things would be OK.

    I realize this is a long post, but you asked for it and I tried to explain my logic and reasoning.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  5. #5
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Wesley Clark:
    Very intelligent, very arrogant, and extremely ego-centric. Most presidential candidates possess those three qualities, but Clark has a harder time, or an inate inability to, control those.

    "I'm Wesley Clark. I'm running for President because, well, I'm Wesley Clark."

    Think MacArthur without the corn-cob pipe.

  6. #6
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    Dammit Shark, you ruined my fun!

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    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Overall I have a problem with voting for any politician who has never worked a day in their lives, i.e. Gephardt, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, etc. Kerry has been on the hill for about 30 years.
    Sharkie, what exactly is your definition of work, and how much of it has Bush ever done.

    Cutting money going to Washington is one thing. Cutting it and spending far more than comes in is another. The latter appears tobe a Bush specialty, which would explain his failed buisiness ventures.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  8. #8
    Member JuliaFire's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Battle for the White House

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Exactly which of his policies do you agree with? What are his strong points? How will he end the Iraqi situation? Which of the governmental positions that he has held will help him when he is elected? How does he feel about the job Pres. Bush's adminstration has done in Iraq? How does he feel about past Rep. Administrations? Convince us with facts.
    I wasn't looking to convince anyone to vote for Clark. My post was aimed more to generate discussion. I still have not made my descision on the candidates. I had the opportunity to hear Clark, and he made a good impression. I was wondering what anyone else's opinion on him or the other democratic contenders is.

    Not to seem like I am making baseless claims, here is my more indepth analysis the Clark campaign, and my opinion thereof. I agree with him on most of his policies. To me, his strong points seem to be his extensive experience in foreign relations, and a less hubristic, unilateral approach to dealing with foregin relations than our current leader has taken. In Iraq, he plans to reapproach our former allies in Europe and at the U.N., to try and resurrect the working relationships we once maintained there, and develop a multi-national coalition to ease the transition to Iraqi sovereignty. As far as governmental positions that have prepared him to run the nation, the Supreme Allied Command Europe couldn't hurt, as the rest of his military command experiences have contributed to his ability to lead and govern, although he is relatively weaker on the domestic policy side. Conversely, the rest of the candidates have had little or no foreign policy experience in their respective tenures as governors, representatives or senators (I do not count Carol Mosely-Braun's tenure as ambassador to New Zealand as any meaningful foreign policy experience). Clark feels that Bush has not done an adequate job handling the Iraq situation. Although he thought the war was necessary and justified to remove Saddam Hussein, he stronly disapproves of how the Bush administration has waged the war. He criticized Bush for taking a unilateral approach to the war, at the cost of important international alliances that have been years in the making. He also criticizes Bush's premature "Mission Accomplished" mindset. More American troops have died in Iraq since the official end of hostilities than over the course of the actual war - the war is not over. He supported and approved of past republican administrations - he voted for Nixon and for Reagan. His feeling is that was then, this is now, and the nation's needs of today are quite different from those in the past. I don't mean to proselytize or propagandize here, as I am still on the fence as to my candidate of choice, and may just as likely vote for Bush as for any democrat, but I must answer the criticism of my unsubstantiated claims.

  9. #9
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Dammit Shark, you ruined my fun!
    You were just to slow out of the gate Hoss!

    Sharkie, what exactly is your definition of work, and how much of it has Bush ever done.
    Didn't say he did or didn't work hard in his life. Didn't say it was an absolute requirement for you to get my vote. I just expect ot have been an "average american" before you try to tell me what is best for me and "represent me."

    My definition of work, oh let's see. Having student loans and working two jobs to pay them off because of the exorbatant tax rates in this country.

    Working two jobs just to be able to afford the house that is part of "American Dream."

    Having to get up in the morning to meet deadlines, so you can keep your job.

    You know exactly what I mean. Please do not insult my or your own intelligence. Most of these yutses have never struggled to pay for anything in their lives. We work hard for our money, worry about our job security, worry about the bills getting paid, struggle to live under a mountain of personal debt to pay for basic subsistance. That is what I mean by work. Does it require further expalanation?

    Cutting money going to Washington is one thing. Cutting it and spending far more than comes in is another. The latter appears tobe a Bush specialty, which would explain his failed buisiness ventures.
    Uh huh. So because he Is a Bush, he should be exempt form financila success in business ventures? The number of successful business ventures is only a fraction of those that are started. They fail for many reasons, lack of research, failing economy, inability to adapt to a changing environment, lack of capital for expansion......

    If you want to criticise President Bush fine. Just realize that for the largest part of the last century the United States operated at a deficit spending. And let us not forget who controlled both houses of congress, the Democrats. Rememebr that little old document called the Constitution? Well congress controls the purse strings. The President submits a budget and congress, both houses, has to approve and account for the spending. Both are to blame. You can't jsut happily pass it all off on one man.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Good points Sharkie,

    I am talking about the here and now. Your right congress is as much to blame. We know who controls congress currently, don't we.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  11. #11
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    I just expect ot have been an "average american" before you try to tell me what is best for me and "represent me."
    Well, you sure aren't describing GWB, then. His life is a far cry from what an "average American" life would be.

  12. #12
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Well, you sure aren't describing GWB, then. His life is a far cry from what an "average American" life would be.
    I never said that I was describing anyone. All I stated is that this is what I expect from someone running fro office adn trying to tell me what is good for me. Unfortunately, these types of people have become few and far between in our system of government. You now need to become a millionaire to afford to run for office. This is not how our system was set up.

    Also, I vote for the best candidate for me. They may not meet all of my points of view or represent everything I wish for them to, but they will be the best candidate out of the pack that is running. I will not, nor have I ever vote(d) for anyone becuase of one single issue. However, I believe that it is important to vote. I do believe that one vote makes a difference. If I don't vote, then I feel I have no right to complain about how the government is run or the decisions that they make because my say was not counted.

    I do believe that compared to Al Gore, Bush knew more about what people that tworked all thier life and struggle to get by have endured. You may disagree with that but this how I felt and still feel.

    I am talking about the here and now. Your right congress is as much to blame. We know who controls congress currently, don't we.
    Yes we do, adn I am faily disappointed over it. But your original statement placed all of the blame on George Bush and I just wished to clarify it.

    Cutting it and spending far more than comes in is another. The latter appears tobe a Bush specialty
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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