Thread: Turnout Gear

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    HFRH28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    573

    Default Turnout Gear

    I know this topic has probably been beat to death, but i need some opinions and FACTS.

    We're looking at purchasing more gear, and here is what we have come across. The following is straight from the tag inside the gear.

    #1 Inno-Tex:
    Crusader 790 (60% Kevlar 40% nomex 7.5oz)
    Stedair 2000 (E-89 Lami/sedair 2000)
    xtra lite

    #2 Chieftain
    Shell: 7.5 osy nomex IIIA Plain 100% Aramid
    Moisture: 4.5 osy comfort zone polyurethan lamited to basofil blend
    Themral: 7.1 osy Aralite 100% para-armid batt quilted to 100%nomex IIIA

    #3 Chieftain
    Shell 7 osy Advance-Ripstop 60% Kevlar 40% nomex IIIA
    Moisture: Comfort Zone 4.5 Basofil Filer
    Themral: 9.3 osy Q-9 Nomex to 100% nomex IIIA

    #4 Globe (already have about 5 issued sets of this gear out)
    Shell 6 oz PBI/Kevlar Gold
    Moisture Crosstech on PJ
    Themral Aralite quilt

    I would like to find information on which setup is most protective, and the best value for the money. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    HFRH28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    573

    Default

    BUMP.... Anybody? any ideas?

  3. #3
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    #1 I have never heard of Inno-Tex. Is that the name of the manufacturer?

    From the description it sounds like a knock-off of advance.

    #2 & #3....My PERSONAL Opinion is that Chieftain is built a bit cheap, although it does meet the standard of course. People are moving away from NOMEX and in most cases going with a minimum of ADVANCE now. If they do not take care of manufacturers defects any better than they did with the recent outer shell problem in their helmets you may have trouble.

    #4 Globe is great gear but just like morning pride it is over priced in most markets..

    Would also steer clear of Securitex as I again personally do not like it.

    I suggest an outer shell of BASOFIL which is a 60% Kevlar/40% Basofil blend for an outer shell, and in your climate go with Platinum Caldura for a thermal liner and STEDAIR 3000 (latest technology) for a vapor barrier. STEDAIR 3000 is the closest you can get to CROSSTECH. Use Lime Yellow Scotchlite Triple Trim as it is more visible in my opinion. I would chose a 32" coat and bib back pants in your area.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    HFRH28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Thanks for the info Captstanm1. I figured either you or gonzo would post first, looks like you won this one. My father, who is asst. chief wants to go with one of the 3 Nomex sets, because we can get 4 sets of nomex for the price of 3 sets of PBI. I'm trying to convince him to go PBI. Any other information would be greatly appreciated.

    Inno-Tex IS the brand name of the gear, had never heard of it before, but it is nice gear, if i had to pick from the nomex sets, it would be the inno-tex, althought the pants with the inno-tex are not high back... I'm making sure that whatever we purchase will be high back, and best for our safety.

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Stan,

    I thought they were going away from the bib, and rear bib style as it leads to more heat stress by covering more of the core. Just what i had heard, feel free to point out the errors of my rumor....

    Dave

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CFD Hazards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cranston, RI, USA
    Posts
    381

    Default

    My department is in the process of changing over to Fire-Dex gear. I got my set about a month ago and I love it. It was custom fitted and feels great. It is much lighter than what I had previously. The pants have the high back. It is tan with the tri-colored trim. I don't know what material it is made of though.

  7. #7
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    Dave.....

    I had heard that but to my knowledge the bib is still out there and very popular. It is my understanding that the bib does not provide more heat stress, rather it helps to insulate some vital organs against heat. Word I hear is that some manufacturers who did not provide the bib started that because it was not available in their product. It was a negative sales tactic. To my knowledge there is no scientific evidence that this problem exsists. That's my take. Also, the reason I recommended the bib and a 32" coat.... Well...you are required to have a 6" overlap by NFPA 1971...I think that is the number.. You can get that by using the bib and a 32" coat and I personally like the shorter coat. There is certainly nothing wrong with the waist pants and a 35" Coat.

    HFRH28....There is nothing wrong with NOMEX,and certainly not PBI in terms of protection. Heck, after the old heavy cotton coats that were similar to jean fabric we used NOMEX for years. I wore PBI where I used to work and it was great. They are however, the two fabrics that are most highly prone to UV Degradation. Fabrics such as BASOFIL, Advance, Milenia are newer technology...thats all. As for Milenia, I have not heard,nor seen enough about it to form an opinion.

    You have to chose your outer fabric based on the need for the Department. If you run a lot of fire then go with Basofil, if you run mostly BS calls, like most of us, then ADVANCE is a good choice and certainly cheaper.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  8. #8
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    cdfeng3.... Question??? You say the gear is custom fit. How long did it take to get it after iy was ordered?

    Look at the label and read it.... Most likely has 2 or 3 Numbers in the sizes... Example 44-32-?? The first is the chest size, the second is the coat length and the last is the sleeve... Pants will have 2 numbers... First = waist second = inseam. If those two last digits are numbers is it the number you were measured at? If not it is not custom fit. If the last digit is a letter such as "L" or "R" then the gear is not custom fit. A good deal of manufacturers stock gear to decrease delivery time. The stock gear normally comes in two (2) different sleeve and inseam lengths. Standard sleeves are 32"(r) and 35"(L) I believe and standard inseams are 29"(R) and 32"(L). These companies come out and measure you and then go back and pull gear off the shelf that is "closest" to your size.

    Would be curious as to what you find. To my knowledge there are only a few companies that actually "custom make" gear.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    CFD Hazards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cranston, RI, USA
    Posts
    381

    Default

    I will go in tonight and check but I am fairly large and this gear fits me better than any other I have had. The sleeves actually reach my wrists and the pant legs reach my boots. I believe I was fitted in August and I got the gear two days before Thanksgiving.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    HFRH28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    573

    Default

    We run about 10 structure fires per yer (not counting mutual aid for structures). We run about 80 other fire calls per year (including wrecks, but not rescue).

    I am pulling for the PBI because we have used it, and people have no complaints about it. I personally am on my 2nd set of nomex in 4 years because i am one of the most active members, making most calls, and probably 9 out of 10 structures. We also do wrecks, including extrication. I am also pulling for the globe because they have the most square inches of reflective striping on the coat than any of the other 3, since this is in stock gear, not being custom ordered.

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    924

    Default

    we are going to be getting PBI fusion as new gear from our FEMA grant. that his the iso-dri waterproofing system. we are getting ours through 5 Alarm Fire out of Wisconsin but their is a salesman that lives in the next town over so its not real far out of his way.
    "Let's Roll." Todd Beamer 9/11 first soldier in the war on terror

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands ONE NATION UNDER GOD indivisible,with liberty, and justice for all.

    I.A.C.O.J. Probie and darn proud of it.

  12. #12
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default Short answer...

    I know this is going to be short and wont offer much
    info. but I have been using both Janesville and Globe.
    To my surprise, I like the Janesville gear the best.

    Also, I have seen that "ISO dry" gear out there and it
    seems to REALLY stay dry, clean and hold up well.

    Hope that helps...Bou

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Stan,I think the platinum Caldura is called Caldura SL.I know you're not a big Millenia fan but we just bought 50 sets so I'll let you know in a year or two how it's holding up.I've had a set for over a year now and I'm very happy with the comfort and performance.Oh, liners are Caldura on Crosstech.T.C.

  14. #14
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    Engine 101... Caldura SL is different from Platinum. We used to have Caldura and SL. Now we use Platinum, it just came out this year.

    Also...it is not that I am not a fan of milenia... I just do not have enough information to form an opinion. Would be interested in how it holds up for your department. My only concern about it is that it is relatively new and have not seen any data other than test data. Would like to have seen more field testing information.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Stan,I've got a lot of hours on mine doing Fire training with State.Plus I run 90% of all calls in my District.I've got a few guys in this outfit that could bust an anvil so we're going to hang this stuff on 'em and see how it works.We've managed to destroy every other material out there at least once.I'll let you know how it works;I know where you live(hehe).You might be interested to know the Quaker finished second place in our evaluations,the major reason we went with Globe was our proximity to the factory in the event of a problem.Thanks for the tip and Happy Holidays to you and yours.T.C.

  16. #16
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    Good to know that Quaker was in the running. I know they have a milenia material but we have not seen much movement of it in the Florida area.

    May prove to be a reputable material. Sounds as if you well on the way to finding out.

    Good luck and happy holidays.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    HFRH28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    573

    Default

    Now for opinions... Which of the four listed would yall rather have if you were going to be the one wearing it?

  18. #18
    District Chief
    distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    If I had to chose between the 4 listed, I would have to say Globe for the reasons I listed before.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    We have Custom fit Quest fire gear. That stuff fits like a glove. The only problem is if you live in a colder climate make sure you give yourself a little extra room if you are going to wear a sweat shirt. Most of my duty shirts bunch up so I have a extra sweat shirt that I put on that fits good. All our gear is PBI. I like it better than my old nomex which like was mentioned....didn't handle the amount of fire calls well.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    BUMP......... Has anyone had experience yet with the Inno Tex???
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    Engine305's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sahuarita AZ, formerly of Hewitt NJ
    Posts
    293

    Default Chieftan

    off subject, but we had helmets from them that fell apart; even new ones in the box. The supplier is suing the manufacturer for us. They sure were low bid junk helmets

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Louisville, KY USA
    Posts
    84

    Default

    We have the exact setup of 8.
    Not sure of the facts,
    But is is very comfortable

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Saratoga Springs, New York
    Posts
    57

    Default pick none of those options

    Quote Originally Posted by HFRH28
    Now for opinions... Which of the four listed would yall rather have if you were going to be the one wearing it?
    I would choose NONE of those options.

    That is not to say those are bad gear - but you are making the same mistakes that others have made on this forum (IMHO).

    If you want to know which is the "best" you have to develop a scale that will give you that answer for YOUR particular department needs.

    I would strongly recommend that you fieldtest ALL your gear before you decide WHICH to buy - additionally, do NOT rely on opinions - LOOK AT THE FACTS.

    I would rank according to abrasion resistance and TPP, out of the four shells you mentioned I believe that advance has the highest TPP, but PBI Matrix is a PROVEN outershell and has a higher abrasion resistance.

    You can get these figures from the mills and dealers - so simply compare the facts.

    Additionally, InnoTex and Chieftain are not on the same level as Globe is as a manufacturer - BUT I would push Janesville over ALL of them. My department spent 6 months fieldtesting three manufacturers (Janesville, Globe and Morning Pride) and Janesville was the best on MANY levels.

    Additionally, they have the best integrated Class II harness system IMHO on the market (way better than morning pride).

    The point is that you should rank the options on facts and determine which is the best for your department requirements.

    You can follow the various discussion of that field test on the forum here:
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=80158
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=84984

    You can view the results and the questionaire (its about 16 pages of questionaire, the final report is around 25 pages)
    http://www.richardspackmann.com/etc/...nal-survey.doc

    (its gives some insights into some possible ways to rank gear)

    Regards,

    Richard M. Spackmann
    Fire Commissioner
    Greenfield Fire District
    http://www.RichardSpackmann.com

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firenresq77
    BUMP......... Has anyone had experience yet with the Inno Tex???

    Yes I have quite a bit of experience with Innotex turnouts. To correct an earlier statement you CAN get the pants in a high back. One great thing about Innotex is they are a smaller company so the quality is great. They also have a stock gear, which has the most common options that most departments like are on there and it has a delivery of 10 days.

    www.cascadefire.com
    ^^^^^^
    They are a distributor on the west coast for Innotex and have some good information on their website. Hope that helps.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Bump

    Any Innotex reports?

    Or after a few years updates on how your Globe, MP etc is holding up?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register