Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 63
  1. #41
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    Here is a view from inside the apartment, looking through a wall into the garage area. Notice the heavy furniture sliding down the slope.
    Attached Images Attached Images  


  2. #42
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    It is very apparent to me that there is a renaissance taking place in this country. The public is expecting a competent effort from their public servants.
    As long as the price tag is REASONable

  3. #43
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,655

    Default

    The State mandates you have a driver's license if you want to drive. I don't see them paying for the training, though.
    Doesn't mean there are not a lot of people complaining about it....still.


    Here's the really disturbing part...the death occurred January 2001. This report is getting release December 2003. In these almost 3 years since all these mistakes were made...were any corrected?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #44
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Bonesy,
    Darn good question .......
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  5. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Originally posted by Bones42
    Doesn't mean there are not a lot of people complaining about it....still.


    Here's the really disturbing part...the death occurred January 2001. This report is getting release December 2003. In these almost 3 years since all these mistakes were made...were any corrected?
    Let's analyze this.

    1. Refusal to cooperate with the investigation
    2. No contact with widow or family since incident

    My guess would be that if you look out the window and see pigs flying, the deficiencies have been fixed.

  6. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    94

    Default

    I hope people will take a hard look at this. How many firefighters have fallen into burning basements in the past couple of years? How many brothers and sisters have to die before we change? I guess way to $@!% many!

    Some food for thought on Basement Fires:
    If you are unsure of the integrity of the 1st floor or interior stairs or suspect a well advanced basement fire you can gain access to the 2nd floor for search & rescue via ground ladders and not expose anyone to a collapse hazard with the 1st floor or interior stairs. You can also Vent, Enter, & Search on any 1st floor bedrooms via windows and limit your time on the floor and exposure to collapse. The front door and interior stairs are for occupants, we make entry wherever we need to safely and quickly get the job done.

    If you take a line into the basement via an exterior entrance ( the only way to go if you have the option) and extinguish the fire in the basement there is no need to protect the stairs. Remember the best way to remove the hazards (collapse, flashover, toxic smoke) is to put the fire out as quickly and safely as possible.

    You can’t protect anything from the 1st floor if it is burning out from under you. Anyone sitting on the 1st floor “protecting the stairs” is doing nothing but waiting for the floor to burn out underneath them unless they can actually make the stairs to the basement and get water on the fire.

    Some food for thought on thermal imaging:
    About 4 years ago when NJ starting giving out TICs I said this is a great day because the Brother and Sisters will now have the technology they need to do the job safer. However in the years after those units were issued there have been at least 3 incidents with fatalities where those TICs were not being used as they should. How many more Brothers are going to have to die before TICs start getting used as they should?

    Size-Up – the instant a TIC arrives on scene the first thing that gets done is Size-Up. If a bad Size-Up is made, then it will be a bad fire. The TIC will give you information that you will not otherwise be able to get. Heat around the foundation/1st floor of a building is a good indicator of a basement fire and potential floor collapse. Heat in the roofline is good indicator of fire attacking the roof and a potential for collapse. Additional heat conditions may also be noted which could indicate the location and extent of the fire.

    “Structure Triage” – as units move into the structure a “3 Area” or “6 Sided” scan should be used to evaluate the situation:
    Side 1 or Area 1 - The Ceiling is checked for heat/fire conditions. While the TIC may not “show” failing structural components it can indicate high levels of heat in areas that can impact structural integrity. If you know how to properly interpret a thermal image you can tell what is convected heat from the fire gases, versus conducted heat that is from an attic fire. If you have high levels of heat above your head and water or ventilation are not relieving the heat, then you most likely have a fire in a void space or attic, both which can quickly lead to ceiling or roof collapse.
    Sides 2-5 or Area 2 – The 4 Walls are checked for heat/fire conditions that could indicate a fire inside a wall or fire extending up from a floor below. This is very important for catching extension in Balloon Frame Construction.
    Side 6 or Area 3 – The Floor has to be checked from the point of entry for heat/fire conditions before anyone advances out onto it. Most floors with the exception of heavy industrial or commercial concrete floors will very quickly show levels of heat that can indicate a fire condition below. If the TIC is showing high heat levels in the floor alternate routes should be used until the fire conditions & structural integrity can verified.

    Thermal Imagers can give you very valuable information on the structural integrity of a building. How well they will work will depend on the building construction and the skill level of the user. Remember heavier forms of building construction and new energy efficient building construction can mask high levels of heat form the TIC. However the majority of residential building construction will very quickly show heat conditions in critical areas such as the roof and floor that could indicate the potential for collapse.

    Here are some examples where proper Tactics and TICs were used to keep the Brothers alive:
    http://thermalimager.bullard.com/new...001october.pdf
    http://thermalimager.bullard.com/new...TILate01NL.pdf
    http://thermalimager.bullard.com/new.../GTPLate02.pdf
    http://thermalimager.bullard.com/new...summer2003.pdf

    Finally,
    A TIC can not replace sound tactics or good basic firefighting skills.
    A TIC is only as good as the operator using it.
    An untrained firefighter with a TIC is more likely to get into trouble than a firefighter without a TIC
    A TIC can’t help unless it is taken off of the truck and used.

    Whether it is Strategy & Tactics, Equipment & Technology, or Training & Common Sense we have got to stop the dying.

    Good Luck, Stay Safe,
    Mike Richardson
    Captain, Training Officer
    St Matthews FD, Louisville KY
    "aka TIman"
    richardson@stmatthewsfd.com

    TI Training = www.safe-ir.com

    The information and views above are in no way associated with my employer, and are strictly my own.

  7. #47
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Washington, DC USA
    Posts
    115

    Default

    "I guarantee you that an interior attack will not be done until the camera is there and ready to go."
    I don't know how quickly your department is able to get a camera on the scene, but no officer in my department would dare to delay an agressive interior attack with a report of victims trapped. I understand the sentiment, but, as one of the posters (George??) said, 99% of references to 'always' and 'never' should be eliminated.

    There are troubling aspects to this case, none more troubling to me than the lack of contact between the firefighters and the widow, but some of the tactics utilized do not seem so indefensible to me.

  8. #48
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Watchung, NJ USA
    Posts
    88

    Default

    The front door and interior stairs are for occupants, we make entry wherever we need to safely and quickly get the job done.
    If you take a line into the basement via an exterior entrance ( the only way to go if you have the option) and extinguish the fire in the basement there is no need to protect the stairs. Remember the best way to remove the hazards (collapse, flashover, toxic smoke) is to put the fire out as quickly and safely as possible.
    Yes, the front door and interior stairs are for the occupants and yes, we make entry where it is safe and efficient but if you stretch the initial line to the basement via an opening other than the front door without having a line in place to protect that interior stairwell and front door, those occupants might not have that stairwell to egress from.

    If your initial attack is from say, a rear Bilco door, how do you know if the basement door is closed or open. Without having a line in place on the first floor, you could be chasing that fire up to the attic. And how is that fire going to get up there...via the stairwell you said we didn't need to protect...that the occupants are trying to get down and the brothers are trying to get up.

    You can’t protect anything from the 1st floor if it is burning out from under you. Anyone sitting on the 1st floor “protecting the stairs” is doing nothing but waiting for the floor to burn out underneath them unless they can actually make the stairs to the basement and get water on the fire.
    When I say protecting the stairs, I mean in an agressive interior attack manner. If the first line goes through the front door and gets to the top of the basement stairs and starts down the stairs, they have accomplished three(3) things at a minimum.
    1. They have placed the line between the fire and trapped occupants and searching brothers.
    2. They have placed the line in such a manner that they protect the primary means of egress (the front door).
    3. They have protected interior exposures(other rooms/floors)

    I can tell you from experience that that line protecting the interior stairs is big. I have been on a ladder company for 9 1/2 of my 11 years and I have been above fires where that line was in place protecting the stairwell and where it wasn't. It is a big difference both physically and psychologically.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

  9. #49
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Originally posted by torichardson
    The front door and interior stairs are for occupants, we make entry wherever we need to safely and quickly get the job done.

    If you take a line into the basement via an exterior entrance ( the only way to go if you have the option) and extinguish the fire in the basement there is no need to protect the stairs. Remember the best way to remove the hazards (collapse, flashover, toxic smoke) is to put the fire out as quickly and safely as possible.

    You can’t protect anything from the 1st floor if it is burning out from under you. Anyone sitting on the 1st floor “protecting the stairs” is doing nothing but waiting for the floor to burn out underneath them unless they can actually make the stairs to the basement and get water on the fire.
    I think that your definition of "protecting the stairs" is different from everyone elses. I have to agree with Fitz here. You "protect" the stairs by rapidly, and agressively advancing your attack line down the stairs and to the seat of the fire. The one action accomplishes many tasks, of which Fitz listed and I won't repeat. This is not to say I would never use the outside entrance, but it probably wouldn't be my first choice.

    Dave

  10. #50
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    94

    Default

    My previous recommendations were by no means the right answer for every situation, I posted them in the hopes that Brothers and Sisters would realize that there are other options out there and that some of those options are a lot safer and can achieve the same positive results without the high level of risk.

    Basement Fire Strategy #1 – Attack Team #1 enters via the front door, advances across the 1st floor, locates the stairs, advances down the stairs, locates and extinguishes the fire. Attack Team #2 advances via the front door, advances across the 1st floor and checks for extension, advances down the stairs to backup Team #1 or to the 2nd Floor to check for extension as needed. Search & Rescue Team enters via the front door, advances up the interior stairs, advances across the 2nd floor conducting a primary search, and removes any located victims back down the interior stairs. Exactly what I was taught, and exactly what I practiced.

    This strategy has been used for over 50 years, it has successfully controlled thousands of fires, and allowed the rescue of countless civilians. It has also cost countless Firefighters their lives.

    As Attack Team #1 advances across the 1st floor, the floor collapses dumping them into the basement.

    As Attack Team #1 advances across the floor, they get lost and disoriented trying to locate the stairs and are caught in a flashover.

    As Attack Team #1 advances down the basement stairs, the stairs collapse dumping them into the basement.

    As Attack Team #1 advances down the basement stairs, they loose their water supply and are overrun by the fire trying to get out back up the stairs.

    TJ Lynch & Gino Ginochetti - Manlius NY, Bill Ellison - Miami Township OH, Chuck Williams - Lexington KY, and sadly these are only a few of the names. All Brothers who made the supreme sacrifice and all incidents that we must learn from.

    So do we keep using tactics that keep killing Firefighters, or do we consider other tactics that achieve success, but do it with a much lower level of risk? I vote for options.

    I have built training fires in the basement of a house and watched as the fires burned themselves completely out without ever advancing out of the basement. I have also built training fires in the basement of a house and watched as they burned completely through the flooring in less than 5-10 minutes and caused total floor collapse in less than 10-15 minutes. Basement Fire Strategy #1 will most likely work in the first type of house (finished basement ceiling, 2x10 joists with 1x6 floor planks), but it will also most likely get you killed in the second type of house (unfinished basement ceiling, manufactured wood I-Beams with OSB floor covering). For the second house you need another Basement Fire Strategy.

    Basement Fire Strategy #2 - Attack Team #1 enters the basement via an exterior door, locates and extinguishes the fire. Attack Team #2 holds at the front door, evaluates the integrity of the 1st floor/stairs and checks for extension. Search & Rescue Team enters the 2nd floor via ground ladders, advances across the 2nd floor conducting a primary search, they remove any located victims down the interior stairs or the ground ladders based on reports from Attack Team #1 & #2.

    Has Strategy #2 eliminated all of the hazards, NO. Has it eliminated a number of the hazards posed by Strategy #1, YES. Will Strategy #2 work at every basement fire, NO. Should there also be Basement Fire Strategies #3 - #?, YES.

    Think about it: What if the stairs are not in close proximity to the front door? What if you can’t quickly locate the interior stairs to the basement or second floor? What if you can’t “make the stairs” due to extreme heat/fire conditions venting up the “chimney” you are trying to come down? What if you loose your water supply as your try to push down the stairs? What if the floors or stairs are burned through prior to your arrival? What if the burned through floor support or decking fails as you put your weight onto the floor? What if you go through a floor, how will you get back out? What if another firefighter goes through the floor, what will you do to rescue them or protect them? Stay in this business long enough you will have to face and answer some of those questions. Right answer and yourself, your fellow Brothers, and the Victims might live! Wrong answer and yourself, your fellow Brothers, and the victims might die!

    If you give 10 Incident Commanders (Chiefs or Company Officers) the same exact fire you will most likely get at least 3 different Incident Action Plans. You will have Incident Commanders that will use Plan A, which is the same plan they use at every fire regardless of what the actual conditions are. You will have Incident Commanders that will use Plan B, which is a new plan they saw used by someone else, but it was intended for a residential fire and they are fighting a commercial fire. You will have Incident Commanders that will Size-Up the situation and they will choose from Plans A-Z based on which plan best fits the scenario they are facing. You tell me which Incident Commander you want to work for!

    Firefighting is an art and a science. It is extremely complicated, so complicated that a top team of engineers and scientists who planned the production process for many major US manufacturing facilities and business could not figure out a process that would work at every fire. We will not get it right every time no matter how hard we try, but if we keep doing the same things that get firefighters killed, then we should not be surprised when we get the same result time and time again.

    Live and Learn, Learn so you may Live! Train as if your life depends on it, because it does!

    Good Luck, Stay Safe,

    PS: you have a fire in a fireplace, you are told to extinguish it using a 2 ˝ gallon water can. Would you walk up to it and extinguish it from the front opening, or would you try to extinguish it from the chimney?
    Mike Richardson
    Captain, Training Officer
    St Matthews FD, Louisville KY
    "aka TIman"
    richardson@stmatthewsfd.com

    TI Training = www.safe-ir.com

    The information and views above are in no way associated with my employer, and are strictly my own.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    3,120

    Default

    Firefighting is an art and a science

    A Craft

    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

    A key factor on this fire is that they had fire showing from B side, 1st floor.

    This isn't a basement fire alone, and this is where you start to stretch resources real quick for small departments.

    Was it just light fire, coming through plumbing chases under the kitchen sink or similiar, and able to be hit real quick from a line in the front door?

    Is it heavier fire from a hole in the floor?

    Is it heavy fire coming up the basement stairs and through an open door at the top of the stairs?

    If it is heavy fire, how confident are you can knock it down faster than simply chasing it around an open floor plan around a center stairwell that's typical in a cape?

    If you have heavy fire in both basement & 1st floor, that fire has several ways it could outflank or undermine one or two hose crews -- you need a lot of teams to cut off the fire.

    You go in the front door, cut left, extinguish the fire in those rooms...but are you risking having heavy fire from the basement door trying to go clockwise around and get behind you and up the stairs?

    You go in the back door, you move to extinguish the B side rooms, but risk the fire cutting you off by coming up the basement stairs you've just passed. You stay at the basement stairs and don't go by them, fire in the B side rooms goes unchecked and up the stairs.

    You go with a head on attack in the basement door, you risk pushing a good amount of fire in the several minutes it takes you to manuever to knock down the basement fire.

    There simply isn't an easy consistent answer I can find on this one -- at the very least if your serious about believing there's life on the 2nd floor, you need lines to the front door to keep the fire already on the 1st floor from going up the stairwell, you need a line to the rear to keep heavy fire from coming up the basement stairs if the door is compromised, and a big line to knock down the basement -- whether it's advanced from the outside in or down the basement stairs.

    I think from a practical perspective, I'd move a big line on straight/solid stream in the basement to knock down the bulk of the fire. #2 line would go to the front door to knock down 1st floor fire. This fire is beyond my department's capability at this time to simultaneously attack & search for life "by the book", I'm not going to have the manpower early on to move in the 4 or so lines it would take to surround & cut it off; I don't have enough top-shelf FFs I'd trust do aggressive searches above this fire, so our best bet is to put the biggest effort towards getting the quickest knockdown on the largest volume of fire that's most threatening the structure -- and that's the basement. And I'm betting it's fastest to do that by moving a 2.5" in through the outside basement door rather than trying to wind it through the 1st floor & down the stairs, and I'd prefer the faster knockdown of the 2.5" flow over a more manuerverable 1.75" in this situation.

  12. #52
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Watchung, NJ USA
    Posts
    88

    Default

    You are right, everything is scenario dependent. Tactics should be based on conditions observed.

    To many what ifs in the one paragraph. Remember, we don't deliver mail here. What if my aunt had testicles???

    PS: I would go right through the front door, with my can, and right up to the fire place. This accomplishes three(3) things at a minimum:

    1. I have placed the line(can) between the fire and trapped occupants and searching brothers.
    2. I have placed the line(can) in such a manner that they protect the primary means of egress (the front door).
    3. I have protected interior exposures(other rooms/floors)

    Seriously Cap, Happy Holidays.

    By the way, for all those who are wondering about my aunt w/ the testicles question...she would be my uncle.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

  13. #53
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Some info on the TIC issue, SIZE-UP -

    Without the TIC the picture on the left shows a working fire due to the smoke conditions, but beyond that your info on the fire conditions is limited.

    With the TIC the picture on the right shows a lot more information. Every window is bright white indicating high heat levels through out the structure. The window farthest to the right is "haloing" so there is a good chance the main body of fire is in the 3-4 corner. The attic and gables are also showing bright white which would indicate the heat/fire has extended into those areas. There does not appear to be any heat at the base of the structure, so it does not appear to be a basement or crawl space fire.

    Remember the TIC may work very well on Size-Up, or it may not work at all. It depends on a lot factors, Building Construction, Weather Conditions, and most importantly the ability of the user to interpret what they are looking at. Remember to verify the info you think you have gotten from the TIC by other traditional means. This will lessen the chance you build an Incident Action Plan based on bad info.

    Good Luck, Stay Safe,
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Mike Richardson
    Captain, Training Officer
    St Matthews FD, Louisville KY
    "aka TIman"
    richardson@stmatthewsfd.com

    TI Training = www.safe-ir.com

    The information and views above are in no way associated with my employer, and are strictly my own.

  14. #54
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    Excellent, excellent discussion.
    I don't have anything to add. I just want to read more.
    Mike R.; that's a great image that you attached.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  15. #55
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Some more info on the TIC issue, Basement Fire -

    The picture attached is a classic thermal image of a well advanced basement fire in an older house. It is also a very good example of why you should use the TIC.

    Firefighters who were sounding this floor were getting a good response indicating the floor was still intact and they could not locate any burned through areas or holes. This is because the flooring was substantial solid hardwood/planking. However given the well advanced basement fire it was not the flooring that failed first, it was actually the supporting structures that held it up. As it turned out in this case it was the early warning provided by the TIC that allowed them to get off of the floor before the collapse. As such it is preferred to use the “best of both worlds”. Basic Firefighting – sound the floor, probe for holes, feel for the heat in the floor. Thermal Imaging – look for high levels heat and look for burned through areas.

    As with Size-Up the thermal imager may work very well, or it may not work at all. Once again it depends on a number of factors, Building Construction, Fire Conditions, and most importantly the ability of the user to interpret what they are looking at.

    Good Luck, Stay Safe,
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Mike Richardson
    Captain, Training Officer
    St Matthews FD, Louisville KY
    "aka TIman"
    richardson@stmatthewsfd.com

    TI Training = www.safe-ir.com

    The information and views above are in no way associated with my employer, and are strictly my own.

  16. #56
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Originally posted by torichardson
    Some more info on the TIC issue, Basement Fire -

    The picture attached is a classic thermal image of a well advanced basement fire in an older house. It is also a very good example of why you should use the TIC.

    Firefighters who were sounding this floor were getting a good response indicating the floor was still intact and they could not locate any burned through areas or holes. This is because the flooring was substantial solid hardwood/planking. However given the well advanced basement fire it was not the flooring that failed first, it was actually the supporting structures that held it up. As it turned out in this case it was the early warning provided by the TIC that allowed them to get off of the floor before the collapse. As such it is preferred to use the “best of both worlds”. Basic Firefighting – sound the floor, probe for holes, feel for the heat in the floor. Thermal Imaging – look for high levels heat and look for burned through areas.

    As with Size-Up the thermal imager may work very well, or it may not work at all. Once again it depends on a number of factors, Building Construction, Fire Conditions, and most importantly the ability of the user to interpret what they are looking at.

    Good Luck, Stay Safe,
    The flaw with sounding alone is that often, the floor IS intact. The failure will be in the strucural support members under the floor. This weakness will usually not be picked up when "sounding" the floor.

    I agree with the Chief. Great pictures and discussion.

  17. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Clermont County, Ohio
    Posts
    569

    Default Would a hoseline in the basement push the fire upstairs

    As I think about the positioning of the 1st hoseline in a fire like this, I'm wondering about whether a line attacking the fire in the basement would push the fire upwards.

    I've seen hose streams, especially wider fog streams push fire horizontally. That's the basis for the extinguishment of pit fires with fog streams. However, I've not seen horizontal streams push much fire vertically. I would think that if you're hitting the base of the fire, you're likely to cut way back on the generation of heated fire gasses. That should limit vertical extension.

    Does this match other folks experience?
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

  18. #58
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    As I think about the positioning of the 1st hoseline in a fire like this, I'm wondering about whether a line attacking the fire in the basement would push the fire upwards.
    The fire is going upwards, no matter what you do, especially if the basement door is open. Use of straight streams will minimize much of the "pushing," but the steam expansion will still happen. It has to go somewhere.

  19. #59
    MembersZone Subscriber TruckSkipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    202

    Default

    but it will also most likely get you killed in the second type of house (unfinished basement ceiling, manufactured wood I-Beams with OSB floor covering). For the second house you need another Basement Fire Strategy.

    Straying off the subject a little bit I have to ask if anybody else has seen OSB used for a subfloor? I'm not doubting anyone but I have never seen it in New Jersey and I work in the construction trade on my days off.

    If it is used is there any code that states how thick it must be. I believe that Regular Plywood can be 5/8" if the joists are 16" on center but must be at least 3/4" If the Joists (in this case they are usually box floor trusses) are 24" on center.
    DKK
    Truck Man
    APFD
    IAFF Local 384:


    "Above all, an assignment to a truck company should be considered a promotion."

    Chief John W. Mittendorf-1998

  20. #60
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Skipper,

    It was used for a while here in Massachusetts, unknown if it is still allowed or not. I would imagine it was 5/8" for the 16" OC because it is "supposed" to be the same as plywood.

    On a similar note, we had a fire in a basement kitchen at a local resort. For span they had used TGIs or plywood trusses so that they could have a big open area. The fire was in a cooking unit that was on the first floor in another kitchen. It burned down into the ceiling void space and eventually caused the failure of two of the TGI joists. The floor in the immediate area was spongy, but all around was very sound. The TGI failed after a very short exposure to flame. (Place was occupied, alarmed, and smoke was noticed immediately)

    Dave

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts