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  1. #1
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Default WWYD: A McMansion

    Ok, I was actually searching for a floor plan for a nice, simple, traditional Cape. Came across this beast.

    Let's say you have a fire get going in the kitchen, let's say in the wall behind the stove. Kitchen doesn't even have a window for it to vent out of. But it does have three rooms either adjacent or nearly adjacent that are open to the second floor. Sprinklers? Who needs any stinking sprinklers, we got sheetrock...

    I guess you could use one of any number of scenarios, but I just saw this and figured, pull up on this puppy at zero-dark-thirty, find the house charged with heavy smoke, try figuring out then where to advance lines and how to do searches with multiple rooms with multiple entrances:





  2. #2
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    I don't know what I would do. I haven't thought that far ahead.

    Remember one thing when you develop your plan. Vaulted ceilings, open atrium-like stairwells and the like will serve to delay flashover (takes more energy to build up, further distance for energy to travel, longer time to fill it up).

    OMT. We have a plethora of homes like this in Morris COunty. Once they get going, you can't tell the difference between a million dollar home and one of Artie's tenaments. They both burn like crazy.

  3. #3
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    There are a few of these "McMansions" being built just down the road from the "Casa del Gonzo" (one just sold for $1.25 Million!)

    These homes are built to the 6th edition of the Massachusetts building code, which requires hard wired interconnected smoke detectors in each bedroom and on every level of he house, so notification of the residents shouldn't be a problem. People that can afford a McMansion tends to have a better knowledge of fire safety, so I am assuming that they would have evacuated when the detectors went off

    Ladder truck gets the front of the house, raises the stick to the roof and awaits orders to open up. Most of the vaulted ceiling areas in our McMansion have skylights, so we would vent the skylights (glass is cheap!) after opening up, they would come in and open up the walls.

    First due engine drops at the nearest hydrant and lays a 4" line up the driveway. The 1st due's company officer assumes command and does a 360 of the house from the outside, looking for the possiblity of trapped victims if there are any. Engine crew pulls a minimum of a 1.75" preconnected line (I would call for a 2" preconnect) and enters with the thermal imager. Go in through the foyer, into the kitchen, find the fire, open up the wall, put it out!

    Rescue personnel pull an additional line off of the engine and searches for extension with their thermal imager.

    Second due Engine's driver/MPO/Chauffer ties in the hydrant. Second due Engine company's crew becomes the RIT.

    We would call in additional personnel, so assign the off duty response as it is needed.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  4. #4
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    Your topic is very interesting Dalmation. My wife and I are in the process of planning a new home w/ around 4400 sq ft of living space. we have discussed w/ our architect about putting in fire detectors w / fuseable links and having a magnetic operated fire door separating the kitchen and living area from the bedrooms. the house will be built out of steel w/ metal roof and white Austin stone exterior wall covering. For other potetial, fire protection we are going to build our garaage seperate from the house w/ a covered breezeway between them. I will welcome input on any extra fire protective measures IACOJ (ret)

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Where will you be building your home, urban or in the interface zone?

    If it is in the interface zone, then there is a wealth of information to make your next firestorm only a mild disturbance.

    http://www.firewise.org/

    If you are thinking of internal origin fires only, why not look to a sprinker system?

    Or at least a lot of strategicaly placed extingquishers.

    Has anybody ever heard of putting a race car fire bottle on a furnace or some such thing? Might be better then nothing.

    http://www.firebottleracing.com/index.htm

    They activate in a similar way to a sprinkler system.



    These systems re-designed for reliable, low-cost, automatic fire protection. They are completely self-contained extinguishers that require no piping or electrical power. Maintenance consists only of periodic visual inspection of the pressure gauge and recharging as necessary. Originally designed for use in trailers these units provide excellent fuel cell coverage in any car, or truck.

    Hereís how it works: The thermal release head is a sprinkler. When the bulb fractures, at 135 degrees F Ė 300 degrees F, the head opens and discharges the extinguishant. Thermatic extinguishers offer reliable protection in any environment where electrical, chemical, liquid, gas, or mechanical conditions may cause combustion.

    Halon 1211: We use the Halon 1211 in our trailer Gards. The unit is then pressurized with nitrogen to 195 PSI and is rated effective for Class A (carbonaceous material), Class B (flammable liquids) and Class C (electrical) fires.

    Features:UL listed, quartzoid release bulb, uses fast, clean, effective, UL listed Halon 1211, easy to install, requires no piping or electrical power, easy to read pressure gauge, optional manual discharge, non-freezing.

    Applications: Fuel cell areas, enclosed trailers, recreational vehicles, flammable liquid storage rooms, spray booths, workshops, electrical control and switch gear rooms, furnace rooms
    You can also get CO2 bottles.
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  6. #6
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    Unfortunately my department's disrict is covered with houses such as this one? They get moving very quickly as well because of all the open space and the new construction materials such as OSB board!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Default

    AFAIK, we haven't had a major fire in one of ours yet.

    Kicking myself now for not including the architect's drawings, which would've shown the skylight locations. I wasn't thinking of them as venting places (good catch Gonzo). Good input from George too on the delay in flashover.

    Anyway, these are different buildings from what we traditionally think of in the frame of "ranch/cape/colonial/split-level" which each have their own quirks but aren't as open, and don't tend to have as many paths to get around inside them.

    Keep the ideas coming.

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    My home will be built in the interface. Water will be an issue. I will be more than 20 minutes from the nearest fire dept. Instead of a fire place I will have an Earthstove which puts out a lot of heat with very little wood. It is completely enclosed with fans to move the heat. I will have a preplan drawn up w/ a map to the nearest water resources. My home will be on a well and it is 186 ft deep w/ an outflow of 80gpm. Sorry I messed up this thread. When I saw what Dalmation was showing, It made me think. IACOJ (ret)

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    Forum Member LACAPT's Avatar
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    Just my thoughts, but wouldn't you think that these McMillionaires would spend the paltry sum in comparison to install sprinklers. At the cost of these houses, sprinklers come to the grand sum total of what? 1-2%.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    ...........you know the Capt shoots and scores on that one !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  11. #11
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up The Magic Word..............

    SPRINKLERS. Don't Settle For Less!


    In Rural Areas, you can still have a very effective sprinkler system utilizing a storage tank. A 1,000 gal tank, pressurized with air to 90 PSI, backed with a compressor to hold air pressure to 60 as the water flows out, will handle almost everybody's problem.
    Last edited by hwoods; 12-18-2003 at 10:57 PM.
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    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm guessin people in the McMansions won't go for the sprinklers because of looks. They are used to seeing the ones in commercial buildings that hang down out of the ceiling and would ruin the decor.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by drkblram
    and if you don't get ahold of things quickly, get out, as the building construction probably won't hold up too long. [/B]

    Right on drkblram! I have seen a few of these types of houses burn, and WOW do they go quick! One night we has a fire in a place like that and as we were pulling the rigs out of the station we could see the place roaring from about 2 miles or so away! From the time of call to time on seen was 5-6 minutes. The cops were there about 2 minutes before us and they said the place was gone when they got there. It was due to the open spaces, and the new type of construction! needlesss to say like you said it was large streams all the way, the smallest attack hose was a 2 1/2.

    Not to mention many of the 3-4 thousand sqaure foot homes are built relatively close to each other and present serious exposure problems!

  14. #14
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Smile Don't give them a choice!...............

    Originally posted by firenresq77
    I'm guessin people in the McMansions won't go for the sprinklers because of looks. They are used to seeing the ones in commercial buildings that hang down out of the ceiling and would ruin the decor.

    DON"T GIVE THEM A CHOICE! In Prince Georges County, Maryland, you do not have a choice. If you build anything for human habitation, it must be sprinklered. And it's been that way since 1992. Recently we were joined by Montgomery County (next door, to the West) and we hope to have the ENTIRE STATE OF MARYLAND require sprinklers one day. Stay Safe....
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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  15. #15
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't give them a choice!...............

    Originally posted by hwoods



    DON"T GIVE THEM A CHOICE! In Prince Georges County, Maryland, you do not have a choice. If you build anything for human habitation, it must be sprinklered. And it's been that way since 1992. Recently we were joined by Montgomery County (next door, to the West) and we hope to have the ENTIRE STATE OF MARYLAND require sprinklers one day. Stay Safe....

    I guess I should have clarified. I agree. I think they should be required, to. I was just trying to say that, given the choice, I would think most of them would choose not to put them in because they are afraid of how it would look. I think the people are just uneducated on the issue.

  16. #16
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Good post both Harve and Brian.........I wish we could get that here.....
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  17. #17
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    Default

    Originally posted by Weruj1
    Good post both Harve and Brian.........I wish we could get that here.....
    I wiah we could get it everywhere.

  18. #18
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    Default McMansions

    You are responding 5-7 miles to this gated community. The gate does not open with the magnetic card and must be opened manually. Another 1/2 to 1 mile winding into the community; hydrant/static water source within 200' of the driveway; house 200'-400' from road. Ladder to front of house? You are lucky if you can get the pumper in the driveway.
    Finally, you arrive with the proper sized attack line(local preference) at the entrance to the house - with your D/O and yourself. There are 2FFs/apparatus; the BC is on the other side of the county(34 miles). On a good day, maybe 2-6 vol FFs POV.
    Do you remember?:
    1. open-web wood trusses make up the ceiling/floor assembly
    2. the stairs in the garage to the room above(only access?)
    3. the stairwell to the 2nd floor is not right inside the front door
    4. what is happening over my head?
    5. who do I have, what are they doing, where are they?

    Now, lets attack the fire.

  19. #19
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: McMansions

    Originally posted by sizeitup
    You are responding 5-7 miles to this gated community. The gate does not open with the magnetic card and must be opened manually. Another 1/2 to 1 mile winding into the community; hydrant/static water source within 200' of the driveway; house 200'-400' from road. Ladder to front of house? You are lucky if you can get the pumper in the driveway.
    Finally, you arrive with the proper sized attack line(local preference) at the entrance to the house - with your D/O and yourself. There are 2FFs/apparatus; the BC is on the other side of the county(34 miles). On a good day, maybe 2-6 vol FFs POV.
    Do you remember?:
    1. open-web wood trusses make up the ceiling/floor assembly
    2. the stairs in the garage to the room above(only access?)
    3. the stairwell to the 2nd floor is not right inside the front door
    4. what is happening over my head?
    5. who do I have, what are they doing, where are they?

    Now, lets attack the fire.
    If this is the situation in your neck of the woods...the preferred method would be master streams filling the foundation full of water, because that's where the fire is going to be.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  20. #20
    Forum Member LACAPT's Avatar
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    Gonzo you are soooo right, what ya gotta remember is that the fire will go out sooner ar later.

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