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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
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    Unhappy Mobile, Alabama ladder truck crash

    This story was on a local TV newscast last night. According to both the on-air story and the print story, several witnesses said the car ran a stop sign. Say a prayer for the crew and the victims.

    ---------

    Two killed as fire truck hits car, slams it into tree

    Two people in a Lincoln Town Car were killed Monday morning in south Mobile when a fire truck responding to an emergency medical call collided after the car ran a stop sign, authorities said.

    "The car was literally crushed," and the bodies were trapped in the wreckage, said Sortoria Lewis, who lives near the crash site.

    The bodies were not freed from the mangled car until mid-afternoon, witnesses said. The bodies arrived at the Mobile office of the Alabama Department of Forensic Sciences at 3:15 p.m., a forensics spokesman said.

    No firefighters were injured in the crash, Steve Huffman, Mobile Fire-Rescue Department spokesman, said.

    Officer Eric Gallichant, a Mobile police spokesman, said Monday afternoon that the crash remained under investigation and he expects to release the names of the two victims and the driver of the fire truck today.

    Gallichant said he didn't know the gender of the victims, only that they were adults. A witness told the Mobile Register that the driver of the car was a man.

    Huffman and witnesses said the fire truck's emergency lights and siren were on at the time of the crash.

    Witnesses told police that the fire truck, which weighs about 60,000 pounds, was traveling southbound on Navco Road at 35 to 45 mph when it struck the car at Farnell Drive, the fire department spokesman said.

    Citing the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, a federal privacy law, Huffman would not release details of the emergency medical call.

    Huffman said fire trucks often are sent on emergency medical runs either alone or with a fire department ambulance because firefighters on the big trucks are trained to handle medical calls as well as to fight fires.

    Another reason fire trucks are sent on some emergency calls is because the department has more fire trucks than ambulances, he said. In this instance, an ambulance was ahead of the fire truck, he said.

    Huffman said the crash occurred shortly after 8 a.m.

    Witnesses said the fire truck veered in a desperate attempt to miss the car, and after colliding, the heavy truck pushed the car about 50 feet into a tree.

    "It was two hits," said Mary Louise Walker, who lives across from the accident. "It hit the car and then the next hit was into the tree."

    Lewis, 24, said the driver of the Town Car pulled out in front of the oncoming fire truck.

    Lewis said she had just gotten home and was standing in her yard when the crash occurred.

    The fire truck was going "no faster than normal" in an emergency situation, she said.

    Lewis said the driver of the fire truck appeared "devastated" by the accident.

    "He was slumped against a tree in disbelief of what had happened," she said.

    Walker, 65, said she was sweeping her front porch when the crash occurred.

    "I heard the fire truck coming, and I could hear the siren coming real loud," Walker said. "I said, 'Lord, somebody is hurt,' and about that time I heard an impact."

    Her sister, Eva Walker, 62, also witnessed the crash.

    "I saw the car coming out, then the fire truck skidded a long way," Eva Walker said.

    Motorists run the stop sign daily, Eva Walker said.

    "I knew it was going to happen sooner or later," she said. "But one thing I can say is it was not the fireman's fault."

    Lewis and others said they also frequently see people run the stop sign.

    "I've been here for two years, and this is the third accident I've seen here," Lewis said.

    Huffman, the fire department spokesman, said all firefighters are trained to drive fire trucks.

    He described the man driving the fire truck as a veteran driver who had been promoted to driver, an official fire department position which requires experience and the passing of a fire department test.

    "These fire trucks aren't going to have a real short stopping distance," Huffman said. "I've driven them before, and it's almost impossible sometimes to get people out of your way."
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  2. #2
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    at least the public is behind the driver of the truck. alot of time the public will blame the driver of the truck. it is just a bad situation all around. that is a hell of a accident. the one thing i hope i never have to responde to.
    Lets keep the crew and their family, and the family of the victims in our hearts. truely a devistating ACCIDENT.
    "Let's Roll." Todd Beamer 9/11 first soldier in the war on terror

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  3. #3
    Dispatch Dweller Jay911's Avatar
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    First, before I get into my comments, my condolences to everyone involved.

    Now..

    I admit some relief at the fact that this accident is being reported about as fairly as possible, but does anyone else think the print story seemed to focus on the truck's weight a little too much? If it were a delivery van, do you think they'd go on about how it weighed 10,000 pounds?

    Maybe it's just me being over-defensive. I don't know.

    --j.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Condolences to the family. It appears that the dirver of the fire apparatus wasnt at fault and thats good to hear.Reminder for all of us to be cautious when driving our vehicles.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    Like my dad always told me...

    "You might be the best driver in the world, but just remember to watch the other guy, because he could be the worst."

    Always gotta watch out when we're responding. Need to watch when we're returning to the station too. That's when I had both of my accidents.

  6. #6
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    While the vast majority of emergency vehicle accidents are the fault of the emergency vehicle operator (you know, that pesky little "due regard" clause), it's nice to see that it's a fairly cut and dry case that the operator isn't at fault since the other vehicle is being reported as running a stop sign. However, it really doesn't matter who's at fault. Physics certainly doesn't care about that. The use of emergency lights and sirens does not negate the need to drive defensively, even though emergency vehicles are normally exempt from most or all of the standard traffic laws. In fact, that freedom opens up additional options to use to drive defensively, for example opposite lanes of traffic instead of pushing cars into intersections against red lights.

    Bottom line, it doesn't matter who's at fault if the end result is you not making the scene of the emergency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay911 View Post
    First, before I get into my comments, my condolences to everyone involved.

    Now..

    I admit some relief at the fact that this accident is being reported about as fairly as possible, but does anyone else think the print story seemed to focus on the truck's weight a little too much? If it were a delivery van, do you think they'd go on about how it weighed 10,000 pounds?

    Maybe it's just me being over-defensive. I don't know.

    --j.

    Gee, I don't know. Maybe because, at a given speed, 6 times the weight means 3 times the amount of kinetic energy.

    1/2MV^2, physics, how does it work!

  7. #7
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post

    Gee, I don't know. Maybe because, at a given speed, 6 times the weight means 3 times the amount of kinetic energy.

    1/2MV^2, physics, how does it work!
    Kinetic Energy = (mv²) /2

    6 times the weight (m) means 6 times more kinetic energy.

    Also the weight is no factor in determing the braking distance (r) of a truck since all the kinetic energy is transfered into (mechanical) work.

    This gives us:

    Ek = F * r
    (mv²/)2 = fmg * r
    r = v²/(2fg)

    with f being the friction between the road and tire.

    Of course the impact itself is much higher because of the higher weight.

  8. #8
    Forum Member pasobuff's Avatar
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    Condolences to everyone involved.....

    I just spent the last 2 Saturdays teaching Defensive Driving at a local fire department - I got some shocked looks when talking about the amount of force involved in an accident - millions of pounds......a vehicle going 3 times the speed of another will have 9 times the force - it is a squared relationship.....

    This is another reminder why it is so important to pay attention to everything, and drive defensively. Are there times you can't avoid being involved in an accident? YES...but at least reading the article it sounds like the driver did try to avoid it and/or lessen the impact of it.....I can't imagine what the driver of hte truck is going through right now.....

  9. #9
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Did anyone actually read the date that this thread was started?

    It was DECEMBER 30, 2003!!!

    Next time, get a cup of coffee and let the caffeine kick in before posting!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber tree68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Did anyone actually read the date that this thread was started?

    It was DECEMBER 30, 2003!!!

    Next time, get a cup of coffee and let the caffeine kick in before posting!
    And the post that brought it to the top was by a law firm besides....
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    They have 2 posts. I reported both to the webteam.

    (first I have EVER reported a post)
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  12. #12
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    They have 2 posts. I reported both to the webteam.

    (first I have EVER reported a post)
    It won't be the last either, Brother Bones...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theusje View Post
    Kinetic Energy = (mv²) /2

    6 times the weight (m) means 6 times more kinetic energy.

    ...

    Of course the impact itself is much higher because of the higher weight.
    Thanks for point 1... trying to figure out what my major malfunction was last night and why this thread popped up for me (unless I ended up replying to a now deleted post).

    Point 2 was what I was getting at. A 60k lb vehicle is going to have a different impact than a 10k lb vehicle, and that, in itself, is noteworthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    They have 2 posts. I reported both to the webteam.

    (first I have EVER reported a post)
    Just curious, are you talking about my posts, and if so, exactly which rule(s) did I break?

  14. #14
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Hey, did you hear about that Hindenburg crash??

    Lets talk about that!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  15. #15
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Hey, did you hear about that Hindenburg crash??

    Lets talk about that!


    I vote to talk about the Titanic incident and why it sank.

    I can smell an attorney a mile away either up or down wind!!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Hey, did you hear about that Hindenburg crash??

    Lets talk about that!
    I haven't heard anything on the news for the last week other than topics such as:

    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Intreviews with members of Kate Middleton's Family
    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Interviews with HRH's Barber
    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Interviews with the Cousin of the Janitor of Westminster Abbey
    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Interviews with the guy who cleans the schit out of the stables where the horses are kept that will pull the wedding carriage
    -The Royal Wedding
    -The Color of the socks that Kate Middleton's hair dresser will be wearing
    -The Royal Wedding
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  17. #17
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I haven't heard anything on the news for the last week other than topics such as:

    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Intreviews with members of Kate Middleton's Family
    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Interviews with HRH's Barber
    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Interviews with the Cousin of the Janitor of Westminster Abbey
    -The Royal Wedding
    -In Depth Interviews with the guy who cleans the schit out of the stables where the horses are kept that will pull the wedding carriage
    -The Royal Wedding
    -The Color of the socks that Kate Middleton's hair dresser will be wearing
    -The Royal Wedding
    I'm with you, Buffer. I don't give a hog's balls what inbred figurehead is marrying what spoiled brat.

    Here's news: Our nation is in the midst of what must be an unprecedented, sustained outbreak of severe weather that keeps on killing and killing, destroying and destroying. Meredith Vieira needs to pack her carcass up from London and cover things that MATTER.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  18. #18
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Huh??.........

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Hey, did you hear about that Hindenburg crash??

    Lets talk about that!

    Hindenburg...... I thought that Hindenburg is a small town in Pennsylvania......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  19. #19
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Hindenburg...... I thought that Hindenburg is a small town in Pennsylvania......
    No, that's Iceberg, where the Titanic ran aground.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  20. #20
    Forum Member Theusje's Avatar
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    Woops sorry guys, I was more focussed on the maths than on the date.

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