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  1. #41
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Default

    And it wasn't just one person trying to cover it up by saying he fell. I believe the main story on FH also says that someone else said that he was in a car accident.......

    It's a shame that this happened. Like CR says, this workplace violence crap has got to stop!! We're all adults and need to act like it!


  2. #42
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Default Re: What?

    There is no place for violent psychos in this buisness, there is already enough varied and interesting things to kill and maim us, we dont need to be ducking chairs and BS like that.

    Realy, this entire story, it realy has me shakeing my head.

    Maybe I have been in a few more scuffles then the average guy (1 broken jaw, many black eyes, a few broken knuckles, and a lot of interesting stories ) , but by God when somebody picks up a chair in a threatening manner, I sure as hell aint gonna sit their grinning wiating to get smaked. I cant belive that the guy would just sit there and wait. I have seen a lot of bar fights go like that, and I decided long ago that a good offence is the best defense. Weather you think the guy is going to swing or not, DO SOMETHING!!! Like move out of reach, kick his arse, SOMETHING!!!

    The verbal sparring bull and such, that has is also very very bad. That is what leads to incidents like Columbine High, Mike Tyson press conferences, and sadly this incident.

    Sometimes a guy can just keep going at another guy to the point where they realy do snap, and for a few very dangerous moments, are not themselves. This seems to me what happened.

    Not related to his story, just something I have seen where I live. Big guys often get a complex. I hate to call it a bully complex, but a sort of untouchable complex. They think because of their size they are not going to be mesed with. This can lead to them pushing buttons of people they think they intimidate. This can realy REALY backfire when they push the wrong button.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

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  3. #43
    Forum Member SANDSTROMJM's Avatar
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    Default Firefighter arraigned on assault charges

    Published in the Asbury Park Press 1/03/04
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    NEW YORK -- A city firefighter pleaded innocent yesterday to charges he assaulted a fellow firefighter who lives in Sea Bright with a chair, critically injuring him, as authorities investigated whether an attempt was made to cover up the incident.

    Michael Silvestri, 41, was charged with multiple counts of assault, harassment and criminal possession of a weapon.

    Robert Walsh, 40, remained in critical but stable condition yesterday at Staten Island University Hospital's north campus. Walsh sustained multiple facial fractures, including a broken nose and jaw.

    The two men had been horsing around when things turned serious inside Engine Company 151 in Tottenville on Staten Island about 6 p.m. Wednesday, and Silvestri allegedly picked up a steel chair and whacked Walsh.

    Bail was set at $1,000 for Silvestri, who is due back in court Feb. 3. His attorney, Ronald Kleigerman, said he had yet to discuss the case with his client.

    Kleigerman would not comment on allegations that fellow firefighters tried to cover up the assault instead of calling police. According to a police source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, police weren't notified until about eight hours after the incident.

    Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta said his department is investigating the alleged assault as well as "administrative processes, procedures, regulations that may have been violated by firefighters."

    Scoppetta said a battalion chief was notified after the incident that a firefighter had been injured. But fire officials had to sort out conflicting stories given to them from the firefighters, so police were not notified until 2:30 a.m. Thursday.

    "There was a report that he had fallen down the stairs, there was another report that he had been in a car accident," Scoppetta said.

    The police source said two plainclothes firefighters took Walsh to the hospital about 6:30 p.m. and told officials there that he had fallen down a flight of steps. The firefighters became concerned when doctors put Walsh under an induced coma to relieve the swelling on his brain, and called the firehouse, the source said.

    Firehouse officials then contacted FDNY headquarters in Brooklyn to report the incident, but police were not notified until a fire marshal walked into the 123rd Precinct and reported the incident at 2:30 a.m. Thursday, the source said.

    Back at the hospital, doctors were concerned when the firefighters' story of how Walsh was injured kept changing, the source said, and they too contacted FDNY headquarters. The source said firefighters cleaned up the firehouse, which allegedly was covered with blood from the alleged brawl, right after Walsh was taken to the hospital.

    Silvestri, a firefighter since 1988, was suspended without pay Thursday pending the investigation.

    Walsh joined the FDNY in 1995. Family members said Thursday that Walsh maintains an apartment in Staten Island to meet FDNY residency requirements, but his home has always been the Jersey Shore.

    He graduated from Raritan High School in Hazlet, enlisted in the Navy and, when he returned, worked security at bars such Donovan's Reef and Tradewinds before joining FDNY.

    The Asbury Park Press contributed to this story.
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

  4. #44
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    Maybe I have been in a few more scuffles then the average guy (1 broken jaw, many black eyes, a few broken knuckles, and a lot of interesting stories ) , but by God when somebody picks up a chair in a threatening manner, I sure as hell aint gonna sit their grinning wiating to get smaked. I cant belive that the guy would just sit there and wait. I have seen a lot of bar fights go like that, and I decided long ago that a good offence is the best defense. Weather you think the guy is going to swing or not, DO SOMETHING!!! Like move out of reach, kick his arse, SOMETHING!!!
    Not related to his story, just something I have seen where I live. Big guys often get a complex. I hate to call it a bully complex, but a sort of untouchable complex. They think because of their size they are not going to be mesed with. This can lead to them pushing buttons of people they think they intimidate. This can realy REALY backfire when they push the wrong button.
    BLAME THE VICTIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Despicable.

  5. #45
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    Hello,

    Has anyone herd where the Officer in Charge was in this situation? Was he or she just a spectator? The person in charge owed it to that department and everyone at that department to keep any possible personel disruptions out of there. From what I read there was some history of verbal sparing. How about that union that everyone in that department pays $$$ to every month. Is there a shop Stuart that informs the union? Do they get involved? Will they at this point? I don't know how personnel issues are conducted in this fire department. Does anyone here know? Please Comment

    Thanks,
    CM

  6. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Default does anyone read anymore?

    Has anyone herd where the Officer in Charge was in this situation? Was he or she just a spectator? The person in charge owed it to that department and everyone at that department to keep any possible personel disruptions out of there. From what I read there was some history of verbal sparing. How about that union that everyone in that department pays $$$ to every month. Is there a shop Stuart that informs the union? Do they get involved? Will they at this point? I don't know how personnel issues are conducted in this fire department. Does anyone here know? Please Comment
    Ok, look. If you aren't going to take the time to read the thread don't post to it. If you had read you would know that the house's Capt. was one of those who drove him to the hospital. That is if you even knew he went to the hospital via car.

    The union will be involved. They will make sure the departments disciplinary policy is followed in accordance with their CBA and the law.

    The union will also be there for the family of the injured FF.

    I say this with no more knowledge of FDNY than anyone else who lives half a country away. I am fairly sure that I am not mistaken in how the union will respond.

    Most likely we won't hear much from the FDNY contingent on this one, and I understand why.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

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  7. #47
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    There are five stories to be told here.
    1st The Media (they just want to sell there BS)
    2nd Firefighter 1
    3rd Firefighter 2
    4th The BROTHERS and then there's
    #5 The Truth.
    So why don't you wait till the truth is told before you make comments on this FORUM?
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 01-04-2004 at 10:07 AM.
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  8. #48
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    Im with you. Its an FDNY problem that the media has gotten a hold of. It will be worked out by the Job, Union , Police, and those involved. If I can be honest, I dont see what business it is of firefighters outside that house, let alone outside the FDNY.

  9. #49
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI



    BLAME THE VICTIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Despicable.


    Putting words in peoples mouths.

    Despicable.

    And par for the course from you evidently.

    Pointing out the basics of self defense is not blaming the victim, it is preventing someone from becomeing a victim.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  10. #50
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    I am quite sure that "imachair" is probably someone we all know under another name. I find it hard to believe that someone decided to join the forums based on this thread. imacoward would be a more accurate screen name.
    I am with George and Duffman on this one... This person (He/She) has a lot to say but seems only so since this incident.....Hmmmmmmm Wonder who it could be?

    E40FDNYL35 says:
    So why don't you wait till the truth is told before you make comments on this FORUM?
    Ray, I can not agree with you more. That is why my original post passed no judgement but expressed concern for those involved.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: does anyone read anymore?

    Originally posted by Duffman


    Ok, look. If you aren't going to take the time to read the thread don't post to it. If you had read you would know that the house's Capt. was one of those who drove him to the hospital. That is if you even knew he went to the hospital via car.

    Hello,

    I went back and read the article. I didn't realize the officer in charge was Captain Terrence Sweeney. He was one of the plain clothes fighters. Thank you for pointing that out for me.

  12. #52
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    MattyJ wrote:
    Im with you. Its an FDNY problem that the media has gotten a hold of. It will be worked out by the Job, Union , Police, and those involved. If I can be honest, I dont see what business it is of firefighters outside that house, let alone outside the FDNY.
    Well, let's see; for starters, like it or not, FDNY became "America's Team" after 9/11. Books, T-shirts, hats; anything with an FDNY logo on it flew off the shelves. FDNY firefighters were dispatched to say "thanks" to cities all around the country. Donations continue. Like it or not, FDNY is still in the hearts and minds of many "outside" of the department. But you want to keep it "in house"?
    Tell that to the wife and his mom and dad. Tell them it's none of their business too. To hear your logic, they should have put the victim in a 55 gallon drum and stuck him in the station's storage room. There; now it will stay "in house".
    Tell you what; out of respect to the FDNY, I will not engage in speculation, but if you could, MattyJ, please explain to me how YOU would have handled a situation that involved two of your firefighters who got into a fistfight and one required emergency medical treatment at an emergency room for his injuries. Tell what you would have done, hypothetically, of course, and I promise not to alert the Associated Press. By the way, you should probably contact them and tell them it's none of their business, either.
    The story is out. People have questions. People have opinions. People have theories. And people have a right to discuss it...here in these forums. If you don't like it; don't participate. But don't tell us that we don't have the right.
    All's I wanted to know is how a situation gets to the level of violence that was described in the AP article.
    Prudent people won't make assumptions until the "facts" of the case comes out. But there will be many questions and they should be asked.
    Period.
    CR
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  13. #53
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    Angry

    You know bothers me, 2 guys fight and its front page news, there is a LODD and its 3rd 4th page news......

  14. #54
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    Originally posted by SamsonFCDES




    Putting words in peoples mouths.

    Despicable.

    And par for the course from you evidently.

    Pointing out the basics of self defense is not blaming the victim, it is preventing someone from becomeing a victim.
    I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. I posted your words verbatim to back up my post. If a reasonable person followed your logic, if a rape victim allows herself to be sexaully assualted, it's her fault because she didn't fight back, even if she was bigger than her assailant.

    What's par for the course for me is pointing it out when someone says something out of line...like balming the victim.
    Last edited by GeorgeWendtCFI; 01-05-2004 at 01:36 PM.

  15. #55
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    Ray, I don't care if these two guys punched the living daylights out of each other. That is not news.

    What's newsworthy here, is the very evident attempt at covering up this incident. That, in and of itself, is criminal. In NJ, it is a charge more serious than the assualt (2nd degree Official Misconduct) and would pretty much guarantee a jail sentence.

  16. #56
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    Arrow

    Well, let's see; for starters, like it or not, FDNY became "America's Team" after 9/11. Books, T-shirts, hats; anything with an FDNY logo on it flew off the shelves.
    And this entitles you to what? This isn't Access Hollywood.

    To hear your logic, they should have put the victim in a 55 gallon drum and stuck him in the station's storage room. There; now it will stay "in house".
    To hear your "logic" CR it would seem that because the FDNY was burdened with this unimaginable tragedy(9/11) and you and your buddies bought T-shirts this entitles you to an all access pass backstage.

    Floating unanswerable questions and theories about a situation you have no clue about makes you no better than the media whores who wrote these articles in the first place.

    "Like it or not" This is none of your business. Until all the FACTS come out, Drop it and move on. Period.

    FTM-PTB

  17. #57
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    "Like it or not" This is none of your business. Until all the FACTS come out, Drop it and move on. Period.
    Who in the hell do you think you are?

    It was on the front page of the NY Post. It is the lead story on this website. We didn't make it up. It's out there. Excuse the living daylights out of us if we have an opinion. You don't have to agree with it. You don't even have to read it. But you don't own this website. The FDNY is no different than any other FD in this country. We have a RIGHT to have an opinion and discuss our opinions. Period.

  18. #58
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    George in all due respect this took place in New York. The Officers will not go to jail for there part or lack of. Like I said, wait till the facts are in before you post.

    The Post looks to sell papers. They don't have all the facts. But it does sell newspapers...
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 01-04-2004 at 03:42 PM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

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    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  19. #59
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    Originally posted by E40FDNYL35
    George in all due respect this took place in New York. The Officers will not go to jail for there part or lack of. Like I said, wait till the facts are in before you post.
    With all due respect also, I clearly said that I was referring to NJ law. I am presently looking at the NY law to satisfy my own curiosity. As I have said, opinions are permitted here.

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    I suppose it would be to much to ask for an informed opinion.

    FTM-PTB

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