1. #1
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    Default Terminolgy? pumper, pumper tanker, recue pumper, Etc???

    It seems everyone knows what all the different types of vehicles are but me. : )

    What are the differences/similarities between the different types of apparatus descriptions such as:
    1. pumper
    2. pumper tanker
    3. recue pumper
    4. rescue engine
    5. tanker

    I pretty much know what the above are but it seems you can call the same apparatus different things so I need some guidance when I begin to describe what i am looking for to vendors and to get our apparatus committee on the same page.

    We have received $180,000 (plus our $20,000 matching) from US Fire Admin and are in the early stages of planning our purchase. We need to know this basic terminolgoy just to begin a good discussion for what we want. We know we want to pump water and carry water and have foam with a dual cab.

    Thanks for help with the basics?

    P.S. Do these different vehicle types have technical definitions per NFPA 1901?

    Thanks for any comments.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Terminolgy? pumper, pumper tanker, recue pumper, Etc???

    my non NFPA definitions:

    1. pumper - also commonly referred to as an engine. Will have a fairly small tank (500-1000 gallon) to supply initial attack until connection to hydrant or other water supply is made.

    2. pumper tanker - a pumper or engine that has enough water capacity to act as a tender ie tanker, a minimum of 1500 gallons. Has enough pump capacity & outlets to serve as a fire suppression vehicle.

    3. recue pumper - also known as a rescue engine. A pumper that is has a [/B][/QUOTE]RESCUE STYLE BODY and will carry rescue equipment such as jaws, rappelling gear, extra air bottles, air bags, stokes basket, EMS supplies as well as the typical firefighting equipment. These typically have a body with full height/full depth compartments on both sides, and will have a ladder rack or ladder mounted through the tank instead of the pumpers traditional half height compartment/ladder setup. Typically, these will carry minimum water (500-750 gallons) so that compartment space can be maximized.

    4. rescue engine - see above, rescue pumper

    5. tanker - usually used only to carry water. this truck may have a pump on it to draft with, but is not usually used for suppression. Typically at tandem rear axle chassis with at least 2000 gallons.

    NFPA and ISO both have definitions of these vehicles, which may vary from what I've stated, but that should cover the basics.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Did you win based on getting a pumper, rescue pumper, or what?

  4. #4
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    Default pumper

    Per the U.S. Fire Admin grant, the terminolgy we applied for said pumper. There is a table in the grant guidance with three categories: 1) Urban 2) Suburban, and 3) rural. We fall under the classification of rural. The list of vehicles under rural listed in order of priority for funding is: 1) pumper, 2) tanker, 3) brush, 4) Rescue-pumper, and 5) Pumper-tanker.

    It seems a pumper could be configured to essentially be a form of any type of the vehicles.

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    If rural area with no hydrants get tank capacity of at least 1500gal. No good reason not to include a rear (or side) dumps in any case, if can use once in the next 20 years worth the $. And then plan tank size such that you show up at rural fire with minimum 4000gal (pumper only or pumper + your onhand 1st response tankers). 4000gal is 200gpm for 20 minutes which will qualify you for the NEW ISO 8B rating. You'll look pretty silly a few years down the road if you come up a couple hundred gallons short (and will cost your customers insurance $).

    Plan the truck so you carry all the required ISO equipment. Your Mfg should ensure you meet all the NFPA requirements for truck and equipment but may very well not bother with taking care of you with ISO rating.

    If you have/should have hydrants, draft sites, cisterns etc, plan so the hose bed will carry the appropriated amount of LDH to serve your district need using ISO rural water rules. 1000ft of LDH is the minimum starting point.

    Put on appropriate relay pump in/out connections/controls. With your budget use 5" Storz.
    Last edited by neiowa; 01-15-2004 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #6
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    IMO 180k isnt gonna get you too far in the pumper/tanker catagory .

    I think you might be able to get yourself into a 2dr commercial chassis 1250 pump and 1500 tank for that price .

  7. #7
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    Most of the specs I have seen for my department refer to our engines (pumpers) as tripple combination pumpers. Meaning it combines the old pumpers, hose tenders and water wagons (which used to be seperate in the old days) into one apparatus. You then have to decide how much water you want to carry (which affects your compartmentation due to tank size). If you start carrying over 1000 gal. of water (at least in our area) they start refering to those trucks as pumper/tankers. Same with rescue/pumpers, if you start carrying rescue equipment.

    Your best bet would be to contact a local sales rep for any manufacturer (if you haven't already) and they will usually provide you with a sample set of specs to work from. Be careful that you look at them closely so as not to be written into a specific manufacturer though.

    Lt. Kaltenbach
    Lt. John Kaltenbach
    Mifflin Fire - Rescue 133
    Gahanna, OH

    "VermŲgen bevorzugt das tapfere!"

  8. #8
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    Definition from NFPA 1901 Ė 2003 (Latest Revision)

    ∑ 3.3.136 Pumper. Fire apparatus with a permanently mounted fire pump of at least 750 gpm capacity, water tank, and hose body whose primary purpose is to combat structural and associated fires.

    No where could I find a definition by NFPA about rescue pumpers, rescue engines, or pumper/tankers.

    However, from I have ascertained over the years is the following:

    ∑ Pumper Ė This is the general category for ALL pumpers. Anything that meets section 5 of NFPA (minimums: 750 gpm, 300 water, 40 cubic feet equipment storage, 30 cubic feet hosebed, ground ladders and suction hose storage plus other minor equipment)

    ∑ Rescue Pumpers, Rescue Engines, Tanker/Pumpers, Wagons, Engines, can all be classified as Pumpers.

    ∑ The term Rescue Pumper or Rescue Engine usually means that you will want high side compartments with at least one side being full depth all the way up and usually no more than 1000 water, but space to carry all the equipment you would normally carry on a small rescue.

    ∑ Tanker/Pumpers are usually over 2000 gallons of water but still meet all the requirements of a pumper, but just combine the tanker and pumper principal.

    ∑ Wagons are 10 gallons of stuff crammed in a 5 gallon bucket.

    ∑ Engines are anything you want them to be.

    It is much like saying the word tanker. On the East Coast a tanker is probably a pumper with a big water tank, where in the Midwest a tanker is a Water Supply unit that just has a lot of water and an onboard portable pump, where as, the West Coast tanker will probably have wings.

    Suggest you review a copy of NFPA and get a copy of the ISO requirements and determine what standard or standards you want the truck to meet. Any respectable dealership should be able to help you out with this.

    $180K will get you a lot more than you think, if you donít buy into the stuff you really donít need.

    Ultimately it is your decision and your department will be the one that has to live with that decision for the next 30 years.

  9. #9
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    [i]
    $180K will get you a lot more than you think, if you donít buy into the stuff you really donít need.

    [/B]
    can you buy used trucks with this money? If ya can 180k well get ya a fairly good truck..

    <a href="www.wynnfire.com"> Wynn Fire and Rescue </a> That pump tanker thats featured is so SWEET... *drools over actualy being able to see behind you while driving*

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