1. #1
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    Default heat in the kitchen

    There have been some things going on around here lately that frankly are just plain wrong, at least in my eyes. The biggest problem is that it is not the individual members who are at fault but the governing body itself, yes the webteam, there I said it. Earlier today a brother from NC posted a thread on here showing his disgust with the situation and calling into question the webteams motives, and it promptly disappeared into the abyss of the internet. Frankly my opinion of that is if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen, meaning that in this free society we live in everybody is entitled to the freedom of speech which gives an individual the right to voice their opinion. Now you may not agree with their opinion but there again opinions are like *********s, everybody has one, and some just smell better than others. Now I ask you, on the front page of this site there has been a big bold headline about the ohio fire and lack of action taken by the fire dept. Can anybody explain to me how that article started off as a blurb in the "other headlines" section got boosted up to top story status, even over a 5 alarm fire with deaths and multiple injuries. The only reason as i see it is because a thread got started and received a lot of hits. It has been there since Thursday which with today being mon makes it 5 days, the last article I saw run that long up there was the Grantbrien article. There again its clear evidence of the webteam only posting what furthers their agenda. The chat thing I wont even get into because I was never in there at all, in fact the only time I was in the chat room was after it had been locked and you had to be a member to get in. Since I wasn’t there I will admit I have no clue what really went on, after all there is 3 sides to every story, so we may never know the full truth, however I possibly could have been handled in a better way, but you made a decision and right or wrong you stuck with it so I cannot fault you for that. However I will say that you have really dropped the ball and lost a lot of respect by changing headings, and deleting posts and even entire threads as happened in the Il. State forum. Well I am done for now so lets see how long this lasts before it gets pulled. The time is now 2352 on Mon night.
    Last edited by 12TruckIrons; 01-20-2004 at 01:01 AM.
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    While I may not always agree with the WT, I have followed a number of threads which were clearly getting out of hand. The WT has had to do a lot of babysitting as a result, and that takes away from the rest of the site which many, myself included, pay for.

    I'd prefer locked threads to disappearing threads because, among other things, it would set precedent for what behavior is not going to be tolerated. But that's just me.

    As for free speech, we're in THEIR kitchen, if you follow my reasoning.

    I hope this flurry of administrative activity and the discussion it generates helps these pages become a more professional forum.
    ullrichk
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  3. #3
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    I have to agree about the disappearing threads. Makes more sense for the WT to make their statement (not to justify, to inform!) and then lock it up. Like was said, it would reinforce to anyone reading that thread what type of behaviour will NOT be accepted on these forums.

    Just got an idea while typing that. Instead of yanking individual posts, why can't the WT just delete the "content" of the post and insert a comment like "THIS POST HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE WEBTEAM because it was a personal attack" or something along those lines. hmmmm lock an individual post ... not sure if its a realistic idea, but worth throwing out there.
    September 11th - Never Forget

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    Before we gather the lynch mob....

    There have been before, and will be issues that we may disagree with the webteam on. But it is their snadbox folks, and frankly some of our "brother" posters leave a lot to be desired.

    Since I began posted here the webteam has done a decent job of keeping us in-line, and from time to time has allowed to to get out of line.

    Do I agree with all their decisions? nope.

    They probably don't agree with all of mine either.

    A couple things. They have always been open to suggestion, and they have been reasonable when we have had "discussion" after people have been suspended.

    So I guess my point is, if you have some issues with what they are doing, tell them, directly...before this turns into something they have to shut down.

    Dave

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    Very wise words Dave. And I agree...I don't always agree with the WT. But this is their place we are just the visitors. The main issue is the complete removal of threads. I Like PFires idea of the individual post editing.

    Lastly...Can't we all just get along
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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    Check out Kudos to the WT thread, your thoughts are echoed there.

    Jeff that was me, not PFire LOL wakey wakey!
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
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    Default BRINGING IT BACK TO THE TOP

    you've got my support 12truck rock on !
    In memory of Bob Compton. Rest In Peace My Friend.

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    Exclamation Question...

    Why are there those people who are itching to pick a fight with the webteam?

    A few reminders...

    1. This is their website!

    2. There are many 1 time posters who see something controversial, make a comment and then disappear into the slimy ooze of cyberspace.

    3. Chat. They (the webteam) were right in shutting it down. You want to troll for babes, guys, whatever...there are other websites to do that.

    4. We all "push the envelope" once in a while... but you have to know the breaking point...if you don't...you get banned.

    5. See reminder number 1.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 01-20-2004 at 10:52 AM.
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    I echo the sentiments of our elected IACOJ President. This is THEIR website. When you register to use this site, you agree to their terms of service, like it or not.

    Part of this agreement, in writing, are these simple words.

    The owners of Firehouse Forums have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.

    You register. You agree. You play by their rules. They have been VERY lenient with some of the crap that goes on here. Consider it a priviledge to post here... do it with a degree of respect to other members. The benefits you can acrue here, far outweigh the few restrictions the administrators impose.

    NJ
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    Sorry Sherri...but you know what they say; A WOT is a WOT is a WOT
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

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    Oh just you wait, Mr. whoo whoo, your time is coming!

    NJ we were posting almost identical words at the same time, except I posted mine on IACOJ.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
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    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  12. #12
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    Like I said my biggest issue with the wt recently is three things.

    The complete removal of threads when they go against the their agenda. (ie. the removal of NCmedic749's thread)

    Holding onto headlines that further their agenda. (ie keeping the Are we Heros article and then again the Ohio incident on the top of the list despite more worthy news)

    Ignoring PM's sent directly to them containing valid concerns. ( there are a few that come to mind on that issue)


    I have no problem with things like the chat being restricted from what I understand it was degrading into something it shouldnt have become.
    After I'm dead I'd rather have people ask why I have no monument than why I have one

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    The post in question that was removed was blasting the fact the chat room was closed to free users. That was the cruz of it, it had been discussed in other threads before. Its just a tired issue. Its JUST a chat room. We're not going to be continually be blasted over a chat room that was SMUT 50% of the time. The chat room is closed for free users because we cannot adequately track them. Its that simple. Posts that infer its about money are pointless, wrong, and deleted. If you don't like it, don't chat or post here. Suggesting its our obligation to provide and monitor a chat room (or anything) laden in profanity, innuendo and inappropriate comments half the time is just wrong.

    Next.

    The top story is the top story for a reason. Its the most read, most dicussed story in quite some time. Suggesting its 'our' agenda is just ridiculous. The readers are the one driving what stays at the top and what stories we follow. Sometimes the lowest sized headline is the most popular story of the day. Everyone's defenition of 'news worthy' is different..but when 50,000 people read a story in three days, as much as any story ever on the site, don't expect us to ignore the updates or drop if because you don't agree. Not to mention the 25,000+ times the forum has been read, and hundreds of posts ... the shortest time ever a thread has gotten to 25,000 views. Our agenda? Yes, its reporting and following stories the fire service wants to know about.

    And finally.

    We do not ignore PMs, but we cannot reply to each and everyone. And we certainly don't delete many threads at all. If a issue is seirous enough, it is addresses as soon as it can be. Aside from a few obnoxious ones here and there (maybe 3 so far this year) and some in another thread I can't quite recall where we clearly said 'clean up the posts' and that we deleted two that included profanity/attacks. Deleteing the Illinois thread? Thats the example? Deleting a post that was bringing up an issue that dozens complained about that got completely out of control that wasn't even about Illinois? Give it a rest.

    We don't need to be bashed for the intense job it is to manage the site.

    You -- and your posts -- can be removed at any time, for any reason, or NO REASON. Those are the rules. We RARELY do half of what the poster suggests is a regular practice. Thanks to most of you who know common sense usually prevails in any decision and making one or two incidents appear to be commonplace are WRONG, and no one has any right to make such false or exaggerated claims HERE.

    Don't like some basic rules of conduct? Think there is some hideous hidden agenda other than us busting our *** bringing news and information to the fire service? Think we care that Joe Firefighter is upset because he wants freedom to post whatever whenever? GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

    If all you want to do is complain about it and present misinformation, don't be surprised if your post vanishes. There are hundreds more discussing legitimate topics that far more users care about.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    Thumbs up

    Here here.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Did someone mention my name?
    You -- and your posts -- can be removed at any time, for any reason, or NO REASON.
    Look, WT; I know that we don't always line up on the same side of the ball, but advocating "NO REASON"? Surely we can reach some accord.
    I don't mean to make light of this situation. Clearly, you were upset from the tone of your point. You even said "***".
    Those of us who moderate other websites understand the arduous task that it takes to administrate a website and especially one that is as big as this one. I realize in most cases that you don't owe anyone an explanation for action that you may take, but it could save alot of time and grief down the road and your emotions wouldn't be as pent up as they are now, if you would just offer something like "post removed for offensive material" or just "TOS violation".
    I was concerned about the thread in Illinois getting yanked because there was no explanation. I didn't ask you because typically when I PM you, you are curt with me. So I didn't press it. I just accepted that you were trying to eliminate all traces of a very controversial topic/person.
    Though on paper, it appears that the TOS is cut and dried, but you've been in the business long enough to know that certain incidents/topics can unleash some pretty emotional responses and sometimes it is perceived to have crossed the line into the TOS. Other remarks are blatant, but sometimes it isn't easy to articulate a thought, have it come out the way you intended and then meet a firestorm, because it didn't.
    Clearly, many, many people come here for the discussions. I know I do. In my own little way, I like to think that I add to the quality of your website. I certainly don't come here to take on the moderators or administrators.
    I guess what I'm saying is that I truly appreciate the hard work you do and I will assist you in that endeavor by whatever means.
    No; no; don't reply here. I don't want people talking about us.
    Keep up the good work. I'll have a talk with 12TruckIrons in private.
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    Thanks CR.

    Even though that 'No Reason' is in there and the TOS, never has anyting been removed for no reason.

    Everyone wanted that 'other' issue gone, so all traces of it ... alot of which were out of hand ... were removed.

    When there is time to explain, we do. If its an entire thread, we may just delete it all. We always try to balance informing and just moving on as most times the majority of active users know what is going on.

    And like the chat convo, we don't mind criticism..but when it includes presumptions and stuff thats just not the truth, we'd just as soon close it, wait a day or two, and almost always the 'crisis' usually disappears.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    Originally posted by webteam


    Deleteing the Illinois thread? Thats the example? Deleting a post that was bringing up an issue that dozens complained about that got completely out of control that wasn't even about Illinois?
    I belive that thread was started because you deleted the one in the Arizona section, and I don't recall that thread getting out of hand. Its nice to know I am not the only person that you guys don't read PM's for either.
    No longer an explorer, but I didn't wanna lose my posts.

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    The Arizona thread wasn't out of hand? LOL. It was among the most complained about one ever.

    Anyway, enough negative. Lets be positive. Thread closed. Bigger issues in the sea.

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    Originally posted by webteam
    LOL
    Hey WT, smiling and laughing look good on ya !! LOL
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

  20. #20
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    I think the WT is just trying to get thier post count up....trying to contend with us Buckeyes


    Keep up the Good Work WT.
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